When I see a spell or class ability that looks a little underpowered (Bomb) but has a touch attack, I start thinking about the options for increasing damage that only come into play when attack rolls are involved. The obvious example is sneak attack, but as explained on pg. 202, splash weapons can't get precision-based damage. But what about these:
Deadly Aim: Seems the least cheesy and the most likely to be allowed, since it's easy to reason that you could do more damage by being reckless with the bomb (and also more likely to miss and scatter back to the party). As I see it, the only real question here is whether the bonus damage should also apply to the splash damage. I say yes, because it's "equal to the bomb’s minimum damage." Any thoughts?
Improved Critical, and Criticals in general: Can you crit with a splash weapon? I've always associated crits with precision damage, but I don't see them described that way in my copy of the PF Core Rulebook. Even if it's allowed, I'm not sure it's worth the feat, but someone might find it fun...
Vital Strike: This feat really feels to me like it ought to be precision damage, but again, I don't see it described that way anywhere. Maybe someone more familiar with the books can clue me in? If it is allowed then...wow. And again, what about the splash damage?
I just found an earlier thread with a very similar subject, so if you have any thoughts, please add them here:
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If vital strike is allowed, then imagine the repercussion of its brother feats...improved vital strike, greater vital strike!
20d6+Int
30d6+Int
40d6+Int! - just wow. that would be a lot of damage, especially if they can get crits with a touch attack. Then again, there are touch spells that technically crit and get sneak attack, etc.
Vital Strike is probably gonna be a no, just because of how obscene it can get. Deadly Aim and Improved Critical, however, aren't very un-balancing, and actually kinda make sense, in a way. Deadly Aim basically gets you a way to do precision damage at a cost, while Imp Crit just allows you a better chance to get something you can already get as it is.
Deadly Aim specifically does not work with ranged touch attacks.
I'm pretty sure you can get a critical hit with a ranged touch attack, though.
If vital strike is allowed, then imagine the repercussion of its brother feats...improved vital strike, greater vital strike!
20d6+Int
30d6+Int
40d6+Int! - just wow. that would be a lot of damage, especially if they can get crits with a touch attack. Then again, there are touch spells that technically crit and get sneak attack, etc.
you know actually looking at it, how gamebreaking is it?
A alchemist can get vital strike at level 8.
Improved vital strike can be attained at level 15
Greater vital strike can never be attained by an alchemist.
So bomb damage
level damage
1 1d6+int
2 1d6+int
3 2d6+int
4 2d6+int
5 3d6+int
6 3d6+int
7 4d6+int
8 8d6+int (normal is 4d6)
9 10d6+int (normal is 5d6)
10 10d6+int
11 12d6+int
12 12d6+int
13 14d6+int
14 14d6+int
Now here is where it gets intense
15 24d6+int
16 24d6+int
17 27d6+int
18 27d6+int
19 30d6+int
20 30d6+int
So Up untill level 15 its pretty much in line with a fireball (and its brothers cone of cold, chain lightning etc), but at a much shorter range, and without the same area impact (splash damage does not compare to a fireball). Given all the insane things a wizard can do at levels 15 and up, I am somehow very unconcerned about 24d6 damage. Especially since a 2 weapon fighting rogue will WAY outdamage that at that point (and probably get it off more often since its not a limited number of times perday and both requre a full round action essentially). So yea it looks like alot of dice, but at the same level, a rogue with 2 weapon fighting improved two weapon fighting will get 6 attacks to deliver sneak attack with (as long as he has someone to flank with).
[you know actually looking at it, how gamebreaking is it?
A alchemist can get vital strike at level 8.
Improved vital strike can be attained at level 15
Greater vital strike can never be attained by an alchemist.So bomb damage
level damage
1 1d6+int
2 1d6+int
3 2d6+int
4 2d6+int
5 3d6+int
6 3d6+int
7 4d6+int
8 8d6+int (normal is 4d6)
9 10d6+int (normal is 5d6)
10 10d6+int
11 12d6+int
12 12d6+int
13 14d6+int
14 14d6+int
Now here is where it gets intense
15 24d6+int
16 24d6+int
17 27d6+int
18 27d6+int
19 30d6+int
20 30d6+intSo Up untill level 15 its pretty much in line with a fireball (and its brothers cone of cold, chain lightning etc), but at a much shorter range, and without the same area impact (splash damage does not compare to a fireball).
Don't forget the Sticky Bomb discovery (which also doubles the damage done, sort of).
Don't forget the Sticky Bomb discovery (which also doubles the damage done, sort of).[you know actually looking at it, how gamebreaking is it?
A alchemist can get vital strike at level 8.
Improved vital strike can be attained at level 15
Greater vital strike can never be attained by an alchemist.So bomb damage
level damage
1 1d6+int
2 1d6+int
3 2d6+int
4 2d6+int
5 3d6+int
6 3d6+int
7 4d6+int
8 8d6+int (normal is 4d6)
9 10d6+int (normal is 5d6)
10 10d6+int
11 12d6+int
12 12d6+int
13 14d6+int
14 14d6+int
Now here is where it gets intense
15 24d6+int
16 24d6+int
17 27d6+int
18 27d6+int
19 30d6+int
20 30d6+intSo Up untill level 15 its pretty much in line with a fireball (and its brothers cone of cold, chain lightning etc), but at a much shorter range, and without the same area impact (splash damage does not compare to a fireball).
And by that same token i can metamagic a fireball or whatnot to get a similar increase. A metamagic feat is about the same in terms of resource use as a discovery. And the alternate energy types are probably more important then sticky bomb for higher levels (fire is not the best energy type to be using) And you cant get sticky bomb untill level 12. At level 12 a caster can empower a fireball and deal out 20d6 damage. And that isnt even his best options for offense.
At level 12 a caster can empower a fireball and deal out 20d6 damage. And that isnt even his best options for offense.
An empowered fireball does 15d6 damage, not 20d6. But a level 12 caster can cast a maximized fireball which does 60 dmg (approx. 17d6 on average).
At level 12 a caster can empower a fireball and deal out 20d6 damage. And that isnt even his best options for offense.An empowered fireball does 15d6 damage, not 20d6. But a level 12 caster can cast a maximized fireball which does 60 dmg (approx. 17d6 on average).
Yea you are right, this is my mistake. Not sure what I was thinking. Better to maximize a scorching ray. (3 attacks sure, but better range and better prescision)
My point is that metamagiced spells are probably still better then a vital strike / imrpoved vital strike / sticky bombed bomb from an alchemist.