Just talked with my DM and got approval to playtest the summoner in his weekly sunday game. Will be creating a Halfling Summoner (3rd) and Eidolon.
Got some ideas for the Eidolon that I'm going to mule over a bit however the basic concept is
3rd Level Medium Bipedal Eidolon
Evolutions - Swap out claws for two Slams (2 points), Add Reach-Slam (1 point), Ability Score Increase +2 Strength (2 points)
Feats - Weapon Focus (Slam), Improved Natural Attack (Slam)
This should give me a bruiser that does 2 slams as primary attacks at +7 to hit (2d6 +4) damage each.
Got to hash it out with the DM after he has had time to read up the material. So for now... off to bed.
You only get one slam per pair of arms.
Just talked with my DM and got approval to playtest the summoner in his weekly sunday game. Will be creating a Halfling Summoner (3rd) and Eidolon.
Got some ideas for the Eidolon that I'm going to mule over a bit however the basic concept is ** spoiler omitted **
Got to hash it out with the DM after he has had time to read up the material. So for now... off to bed.
What exactly does the Improved Natural Attack do for you and where is that feat located? If it is increasing damage as I think it is does it stack with the eidolon evolution that does the same thing?
|
What exactly does the Improved Natural Attack do for you and where is that feat located? If it is increasing damage as I think it is does it stack with the eidolon evolution that does the same thing?
Bestiary.
The bonus is untyped and the names are different so by RAW there is no reason why they wouldn't stack. I'll note, though, that Josh has prohibited the feats from the Bestiary in PFS Organized Play. I wouldn't be surprised if they didn't stack in the final version.
What exactly does the Improved Natural Attack do for you and where is that feat located? If it is increasing damage as I think it is does it stack with the eidolon evolution that does the same thing?Bestiary.
The bonus is untyped and the names are different so by RAW there is no reason why they wouldn't stack. I'll note, though, that Josh has prohibited the feats from the Bestiary in PFS Organized Play. I wouldn't be surprised if they didn't stack in the final version.
Don't have the bestiary yet so does it just increase the damage die one step then?
You only get one slam per pair of arms.
Could you point me to the material that says this please?
You only get one slam per pair of arms.Could you point me to the material that says this please?
Compare the wording with Claws:
"An eidolon has a pair of vicious claws at the end of its limbs, giving it two claw attacks."
"An eidolon can deliver a devastating slam attack. This attack is a primary attack."
Seems clear to me.
You only get one slam per pair of arms.Could you point me to the material that says this please?
Slam (Ex): An eidolon can deliver a devastating slam attack. This attack is a primary attack. The slam deals 1d8 points of damage (2d6 if Large, 2d8 if Huge). The eidolon must have the limbs (arms) evolution to take this evolution. Alternatively, the eidolon can replace the claws from its base form with this slam attack (this still costs 1 evolution point). This evolution can be selected more than once, but the eidolon must possess an equal number of the limbs evolution.
See the italicized above. You can replace BOTH claw attacks with ONE slam attack, thus one slam attack per pair of arms. It also goes on to say that you can select multiple slams, but you must have an equal number of the limbs evolution. Not equal number of limbs, but the actual limbs evolution, which adds 2 limbs. That means you can only have one slam per two limbs.
Don't have the bestiary yet so does it just increase the damage die one step then?
What exactly does the Improved Natural Attack do for you and where is that feat located? If it is increasing damage as I think it is does it stack with the eidolon evolution that does the same thing?Bestiary.
The bonus is untyped and the names are different so by RAW there is no reason why they wouldn't stack. I'll note, though, that Josh has prohibited the feats from the Bestiary in PFS Organized Play. I wouldn't be surprised if they didn't stack in the final version.
For quick reference when in front of the computer, I've found that the the Pathfinder Reference Document (PRD) seems to work well ... PRD LINK HERE
To quote the monster feats section of the PRD ...
Improved Natural Attack
Attacks made by one of this creature's natural attacks leave vicious wounds.Prerequisite: Natural weapon, base attack bonus +4.
Benefit: Choose one of the creature's natural attack forms. The damage for this natural attack increases by one step on the following list, as if the creature's size had increased by one category. Damage dice increase as follows: 1d2, 1d3, 1d4, 1d6, 1d8, 2d6, 3d6, 4d6, 6d6, 8d6, 12d6.
A weapon or attack that deals 1d10 points of damage increases as follows: 1d10, 2d8, 3d8, 4d8, 6d8, 8d8, 12d8.
You only get one slam per pair of arms.Could you point me to the material that says this please?See the italicized above. You can replace BOTH claw attacks with ONE slam attack, thus one slam attack per pair of arms. It also goes on to say that you can select multiple slams, but you must have an equal number of the limbs evolution. Not equal number of limbs, but the actual limbs evolution, which adds 2 limbs. That means you can only have one slam per two limbs.
Slam (Ex): An eidolon can deliver a devastating slam attack. This attack is a primary attack. The slam deals 1d8 points of damage (2d6 if Large, 2d8 if Huge). The eidolon must have the limbs (arms) evolution to take this evolution. Alternatively, the eidolon can replace the claws from its base form with this slam attack (this still costs 1 evolution point). This evolution can be selected more than once, but the eidolon must possess an equal number of the limbs evolution.
Hmm... ok... THANK YOU!
I guess I'll just pick up the Improved Damage evolution instead of the second slam.
Hmm... ok... THANK YOU!
I guess I'll just pick up the Improved Damage evolution instead of the second slam.
De Nada,
Glad to help. :) I agree, the improved damage would work. When you get him up a level, replace the improved damage with an energy attack, is my suggestion, since that affects all the attacks.
I'm envisioning The Crusher to look like a 6 1/2 - 7 ft. tall Humanoid, metallic skinned, with long heavily muscled arms ending in huge fists that almost drag on the ground.
I'm envisioning The Crusher to look like a 6 1/2 - 7 ft. tall Humanoid, metallic skinned, with long heavily muscled arms ending in huge fists that almost drag on the ground.
So a neanderthal then? Or Mike Tyson stretched out and painted with metallic paint? ;)
I'm envisioning The Crusher to look like a 6 1/2 - 7 ft. tall Humanoid, metallic skinned, with long heavily muscled arms ending in huge fists that almost drag on the ground.So a neanderthal then? Or Mike Tyson stretched out and painted with metallic paint? ;)
Has to be Neanderthal. Note the lack of a bite attack.
Sorry, had to do it.
|
|
Has to be Neanderthal. Note the lack of a bite attack.
+1 hojillion. Hojillion
---
What's the value of Slam aside from flavor? 2d4 from a pair of claws has the same max damage but better average and minimum damage. Plus, two hits means at least one of them is more likely to go through.
I guess the damage progression is nice and easier to achieve quickly (2d8 with Improved Damage and Large size at lvl 6 is nice). Is that all?
Has to be Neanderthal. Note the lack of a bite attack.+1 hojillion. Hojillion
---
What's the value of Slam aside from flavor? 2d4 from a pair of claws has the same max damage but better average and minimum damage. Plus, two hits means at least one of them is more likely to go through.
I guess the damage progression is nice and easier to achieve quickly (2d8 with Improved Damage and Large size at lvl 6 is nice). Is that all?
I think that an flavor is it. Honestly, all the attacks are pretty much flavor choices. Otherwise, you'd be mechanically better off buying nothing but tentacles and energy damage and improved attack for the tentacles. A dozen primary attacks, all doing 1d6+1d6 energy. That's one of the threads on the board, that tentacles get rediculous and you need to limit how many points get spent on attacks.
It is now time to start stat-ing up my character and his creation - and my d6 liked me for Sampson.
Rolled 4d6 drop the lowest (Houserules - re-roll "1's" once, HP are rolled in front of Gamemaster) 17,16,15,14,13,12
(The downward sliding progression seriously amuses me for some reason)
___________________________________________________________
Str 15(17-2), Dex 16(14+2), Con 15, Int 12, Wis 13, Cha 18(16+2)
Size Small - 20ft movement
Defense -
HD - 3d8 +12 (+6 Con, +3 Favored Class, +3 Toughness)
AC: 18 (Dex +3, +4 Chainshirt, Size +1) or 22 (with Shield Spell)
Saves: Fort +3, Ref +5, Will +5
CMD: 16 (10 +2 BAB, +2 Str, +3 Dex, -1 Size)
Special: Fearless +3 vs. Fear
Offense -
BAB: +2
Attack: +5 Greatsword (1d10 +3), +6 Ranged
CMB: +3 (+2 BAB, +2 STR, -1 Size)
Skills: 2 +1(INT)= 3/level (9 skillpoints) - Handle Animal +8 (1 Rank), Spellcraft +7 (3 Ranks), Use Magic Device +8 (1 Rank), Acrobatics +7 (2 Ranks), Perception +5 (2 Ranks), Stealth +7 (No Ranks)
Feats: Martial Weapon Proficiency (Greatsword), Toughness
Spells Known: (Cantrips)Acid Splash, Arcane Mark, Guidance, Mage Hand, Message, Mending (1st)Enlarge Person, Expeditious Retreat, Mage Armor, Shield
Edited Specials: Cantrips, eidolon, life link, bond senses, summon monster 2 (SLA)
And...
_______________________________________________________________
Str 20, Dex 13, Con 13, Int 7, Wis 10, Cha 11
Size Medium - 30ft movement
Defense -
HD - 4d10 +4
AC: 15 (+4 Natural, +1 Dex) or 19 (with Mage Armor) or 23 (with Mage Armor and Shared Shield Spell)
Saves: Fort +5, Ref +2, Will +4
CMD: 20 (10 +4 BAB, +5 Str, +1 Dex)
Offense -
BAB: +4
Attack: +10 (+1 Weapon Focus, +4 BAB, +5 Str) Slam (2d8 +5)
CMB: +9 (+4 BAB, +5 STR)
Skills: Acrobatics +8, Climb +12, Perception +7, Stealth +8
Feats: Improved Natural Attack, Weapon Focus (Slam)
Evolutions:(5 Points) Free- Claws, Limbs (Arms), Limbs (Legs) Purchased -Slam (swapped for claws), Reach (Slam), Improved Damage (Slam), Ability Increase +2 Str
Special: Darkvision, Link, Share Spells, Evasion, Ability Score Increase (+1 Str)
I think that an flavor is it. Honestly, all the attacks are pretty much flavor choices. Otherwise, you'd be mechanically better off buying nothing but tentacles and energy damage and improved attack for the tentacles. A dozen primary attacks, all doing 1d6+1d6 energy. That's one of the threads on the board, that tentacles get rediculous and you need to limit how many points get spent on attacks.Has to be Neanderthal. Note the lack of a bite attack.+1 hojillion. Hojillion
---
What's the value of Slam aside from flavor? 2d4 from a pair of claws has the same max damage but better average and minimum damage. Plus, two hits means at least one of them is more likely to go through.
I guess the damage progression is nice and easier to achieve quickly (2d8 with Improved Damage and Large size at lvl 6 is nice). Is that all?
Yes... its purely flavor. I wanted a big guy that throws a mean punch. I also wanted Bludgeoning damage... also from a flavor standpoint.
Edit: Although... it'll be interesting to see what his Slam Damage looks like once I actually do give him size increases. As of now he has a Huge sized Slam.
I'm not sure if I applied the Improved Damage/Improved Natural Attack correctly or not.
Sampson is rather buff for a Halfling. I've got him set up as a brawler. Right now his tactics consist of staying beside/within reach range of his creation and attacking with held actions anything that comes close. By using acrobatics he can tumble around and between the legs of his creation to position himself properly.
Because of the Crusher's Reach, anyone moving close enough will provoke a AoO + Sampsons held action. Moving close to either the crusher or Sampson will result in two attacks against that foe.
First round of combat would usually result in Sampson casting a Mage Armor spell on The Crusher, and The Crusher holding an action to attack incoming foes. (Again because of reach this would hopefully mean two attacks)
If the foe is somewhat distant, Sampson can cast Expeditious Retreat on The Crusher to give him a movement of 60 feet and allow quick closing.
I have plans to give The Crusher the Throw Anything feat so he can effectively do rock hurling as well. (or throw Sampson if needed)
I'm not sure if I applied the Improved Damage/Improved Natural Attack correctly or not.
As of right now, you end up with the same damage whether you apply the evolution first or the feat first, so you're OK. I, however, would apply the feat first, because the feat is permanent, whereas the evolution is mutable. It just feels that the permanent effect should have higher priority to me. I haven't done the math for the higher sizes, so it may not matter one way or the other (and Improved Damage likely should be worded like Improved Natural Attack, so you can just follow the pre-existing pattern).
I'm not sure if I applied the Improved Damage/Improved Natural Attack correctly or not.As of right now, you end up with the same damage whether you apply the evolution first or the feat first, so you're OK. I, however, would apply the feat first, because the feat is permanent, whereas the evolution is mutable. It just feels that the permanent effect should have higher priority to me. I haven't done the math for the higher sizes, so it may not matter one way or the other (and Improved Damage likely should be worded like Improved Natural Attack, so you can just follow the pre-existing pattern).
Thats were my confusion kinda set in. Improved Damage says increase damage by one step.
Slam gives listed damage for Large and Huge size. (2d6 and 2d8 respectively)...
However if I look at the progression on the Improved Natural Attack feat I see there is no 2d8 in the progression. (2d6, 3d6, 4d6, etc...)
Is there perhaps a typo?
Thats were my confusion kinda set in. Improved Damage says increase damage by one step.
Slam gives listed damage for Large and Huge size. (2d6 and 2d8 respectively)...
However if I look at the progression on the Improved Natural Attack feat I see there is no 2d8 in the progression. (2d6, 3d6, 4d6, etc...)
Is there perhaps a typo?
2d8 actually shows up in the d10 attacks progression. Once your base is that high, I imagine that's where you'd go, meaning Improved Natural Attack would pop the Huge slam to 3d8, and Improved Damage would make it 3d10 if you apply the feat first. And since 2d10 (if you applied Improved Damage before Improved Natural Attack) doesn't show anywhere in the progressions, you'd either have to stick with applying the feat first, or break down each d10, leading to 4d8 instead of 3d10 (which actually leads to fairly similar damage anyway).
Interesting...
It'd basically fall to the DM to decide how you progress. It would be nice if they had a slightly clearer progression on the damage though.
It is now time to start stat-ing up my character and his creation - and my d6 liked me for Sampson.
Rolled 4d6 drop the lowest (Houserules - re-roll "1's" once, HP are rolled in front of Gamemaster) 17,16,15,14,13,12
(The downward sliding progression seriously amuses me for some reason)
___________________________________________________________
Str 15(17-2), Dex 16(14+2), Con 15, Int 12, Wis 13, Cha 18(16+2)
Size Small - 20ft movement
Defense -
HD - 3d8 +12 (+6 Con, +3 Favored Class, +3 Toughness)
AC: 18 (Dex +3, +4 Chainshirt, Size +1) or 22 (with Shield Spell)
Saves: Fort +3, Ref +5, Will +5
CMD: 16 (10 +2 BAB, +2 Str, +3 Dex, -1 Size)
Special: Fearless +3 vs. FearOffense -
BAB: +2
Attack: +5 Greatsword (1d10 +3), +6 Ranged
CMB: +3 (+2 BAB, +2 STR, -1 Size)Skills: 2 +1(INT)= 3/level (9 skillpoints) - Handle Animal +8 (1 Rank), Spellcraft +7 (3 Ranks), Use Magic Device +8 (1 Rank), Acrobatics +7 (2 Ranks), Perception +5 (2 Ranks), Stealth +7 (No Ranks)
Feats: Martial Weapon Proficiency (Greatsword), Toughness
Spells Known: (Cantrips)Acid Splash, Arcane Mark, Guidance, Mage Hand, Message, Mending (1st)Enlarge Person, Expeditious Retreat, Mage Armor, Shield
Edited Specials: Cantrips, eidolon, life link, bond senses, summon monster 2 (SLA)
And...
_______________________________________________________________
Str 20, Dex 13, Con 13, Int 7, Wis 10, Cha 11
Size Medium - 30ft movement
Defense -
HD - 4d10 +4
AC: 15 (+4 Natural, +1 Dex) or 19 (with Mage Armor) or 23 (with Mage Armor and Shared Shield Spell)
Saves: Fort +5, Ref +2, Will +4
CMD: 20 (10 +4 BAB, +5 Str, +1 Dex)Offense -
BAB: +4
Attack: +10 (+1 Weapon Focus, +4 BAB, +5 Str) Slam (2d8 +5)
CMB: +9 (+4 BAB, +5 STR)Skills: Acrobatics +8, Climb +12, Perception +7, Stealth +8
Feats: Improved...
Masterblaster with spells? jk, I like.
Just waiting for dm approval on the character and then I get to play the character tomorrow night.
I'll admit the masyerblaster character did cross my mind briefly.
Just waiting for dm approval on the character and then I get to play the character tomorrow night.
I'll admit the masterblaster character did cross my mind briefly. (Edited for spelling as the above post was sent from my phone.)
Got Dm approval but was only able to play a partial session as one of our players was critically late to the game.
I effectively made a medium sized ogre... and the Eidolon functioned at about that level of power.
I ended up effectively playing two characters. An ogre (CR 3 warrior type) and a caster with a bards spell progression.