Summoner 2 Spell Levels Behind...


Round 2: Summoner and Witch


With the way DCs work, the Summoner being basically 2 spell levels behind pretty much makes this class non-competitive in combat, spell wise. It's not really what I expected from a Summoner class - maybe that's not a bad thing - but it doesn't really fit thematically or mechanically with what I would want from a Summoner class either. It's more like an "I've got a weird monstrous pet" class.

I would have voted for dropping the ability to cast any of the standard spells and replacing them entirely with a host of Summoner-only summoning spells that are more level appropriate than the woefully underpowered monster summoning spells. Check out the summoning spells posted on the pathfinder database as an example.

Dark Archive

I only partially agree.

Many of the standard spells play perfectly well into how I've view the Summoner (not just the pet part) like the Teleports, Planar Binding, Dimensional travel related spells.

as for the DC largely their spells aren't offensive. Really on the offense side the only real 'big' DC hit is 'Dominate monster' Most of their selection is defensive/buff (where someone won't 'try' to save against it) or doesn't apply to saves. There are a few conjuring spells that are below level (such as the planar binding spells) but I have a feeling most summoners are going to be taking a focus in conj. anyways for Aug'd summoning. This puts such spells back on level playing fields.

This does however somewhat relate to another post I made because of the 'lower level' of spell, how does this affect the creation (or recharging) of magic items such as staves. What 'level' spell is their SLA? is Summon Monster IX a 6th level SLA or 9th? what about Summon Monster VI, which isn't on their list?

Dark Archive

As for the link, It would be nice to see a more generic type of summoning spell. Something similar CR based but different spells for different types:
Humanoids (Hunanoid, mons. Humanoid)
Animals (Animals, Magic beast, Vermin)
Nature (Plants, Fey)
Alien (Abberations, Outsiders)
Imbued (Constructs, Undead)

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