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For some reason I thought running a game of Starwars would be a good thing to do.
It's been a while so which rule set doesn't really matter. So I read a few dozen reviews of d6 & d20 & SAGA rules.
It would seem to me that, and I'm generalizing here, the order of preference is;
d6 > SAGA > d20 rule sets.
I never found a review that compares and contrasts the three sets so I was wondering what people thought of each system and why they choose A over B over C sort of thing.
I'm thinking I'll use the d6 (2nd Edition, Expanded and Revised) for the game for no other reason than weight of evidence indicates to me that it's the best of the Starwars specific rules.
Cheers,
S.
I'm currently doing the development work on a variant of D6 System called D6 Dramatics.
You should be able to use the vast majority of the classic D6 supplements with it with minimal conversion. (And by 'Minimal' I mean specifying if weapons are light, one handed, two handed or 'crew served')
Ping me by PM if you're interested.
i really like the saga system. i know the rules. my gm is great, and really gives it an increadible star wars feel. he is artist, and writer. all the sets (i call them sets, becasue its not just a map, its just that increadible.) are great.
i think its the gm, and not the rules that matters.
that being said, i had the d6 version, i thought it was clunky.
WEG d6 was far and away the best system for Star Wars in my opinion. The skill-based system really seemed to capture the cinematic feel of the Star Wars universe. Granted, there can be a lot of dice rolling at one time, but that never bothered me. The d6 system seemed quite intuitive and logical way to advance, and even more realistic than levels. And of course that means that even a very experienced character could be killed by a stormtrooper, with some bad luck. I also enjoyed the force points mechanics. One word of warning - space combat rules were a bear, and my groups usually house-ruled liberally to make them less obtuse.
I really disliked the d20 version. Somehow aspiring to be a 20th-level Jedi just seemed... un-Star Wars-y.... It wasn't that the attributions were off or the characterizations wrong, but the system just felt... not like Star Wars. In d20, I felt restricted because one had to choose a class, as opposed to WEG, where the only limiting choice was whether to be force-senistive or not. While I had multiple campaings, some stretching years, with WEG, I couldn't get a d20 version past four games.
I am not terribly familiar with the Saga edition, having read it, but never really played it. It seemed to try to take some of the clunkiness away from d20, but also still seemed flawed by the level mechanic.
I've played both the D20, and Saga systems. Personally I think Saga is the better of the two. It's less wonky at mid to high levels, thanks to the disappearance of irritative attacks (they exist, but you need a feet to get them), and other changes.
that said, Saga dose have some weakness. Skills are very hard to attain after first level. Force powers start strong, but become week at higher levels.
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I have both d6 2nd Ed Revised and Expanded and also d20 Revised Core Rules. I haven't played Saga but was not enthralled when I browsed a copy.
I find I prefer d20 RCR over d6 - but I know I am in a minority. I just didn't like the number of dice rolls needed to resolve an exchange of combat in d6 Attack Roll, Reaction roll, Damage Roll, Soak Roll twice as many rolls as d20 RCR.
Also I just don't likehaving to addup more than three numbers to resolve a dice roll, with multiple d6s I find it can be cumbersome.
Finally, d6 doesn't seem to have minion / mook rules, whereas d20 RCR effectively has - the NPC classes don't get Vitality and so effectively only have hit points equal to their Con Score (so even a Level 20 thug who has a chance of hitting and damaging a level 20 character can be taken out in one shot if his con is only 1o or so).
Mind you, if and when I get round to running Star Wars again I will probably use Starblazer Adventures, FATE is just such a great system for this sort of genre and a lot less complicated than any of the above systems. For example I could start playing using the creating a character on the fly rules with just the stats below and fill in the rest during the game:
Name: Han Solo
Aspects:
Deserter from the Imperial Navy
Smuggler with a heart of gold.
"Damn bounty hunters are everwhere!"
"I'm the best pilot in the sector!"
6 more Aspects to be chosen in game
Skills:
Superb (+5): Starship Pilot
Great (+4): Deceit, Contacting
Good (+3): 3 Skills to be chosen in game
Fair (+2): 4 Skills to be chosen in game
Average(+1): 5 Skills to be chosen in game
Stunts:
Threading The Needle [Starship Pilot]
Hold It Together [Starship Pilot]
Expert Navigator [Starship Pilot]
Personal Ship [Starship Pilot] - The Millenium Falcon
Gear:
Energy pistol +4 Stress, Range 1 zone
My personal ranking would be:
1. Saga
2. WEG
3. RCR d20
RCR was the d20 system that happened to be used for Star Wars, much like d20 CoC was. It was almost like proving a point, and it wasn't much more specifically designed for Star Wars than d20 Future was. The up side is that it was a complex enough system that it could portray Star Wars, but the down side was that the complexity made it feel a bit less like Star Wars.
WEG I think was great for its era, but to be completely honest, I don't think it flows as well as Saga does. I've been running a Saga game over the last year, and honestly, it moves really well.
Just don't let droids take the Wealth talent, and pay really close attention to what a droid character is doing regarding how much freedom they have. Using a droid as an NPC only, or a follower using the rules in the Clone Wars may be a much better option in the long run.
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I enjoy both WEG and Saga. Both are miles better then the original d20 version. If you're going to run it, see what your players want to run. While the WEG material is older, it really lets them craft the character they want to craft.
However, it does get annoying at higher "levels." While WEG is a level-less/classless system that lets you build any character any way you want, rolling 12d6 or more can get annoying. :)
I enjoy both WEG and Saga. Both are miles better then the original d20 version. If you're going to run it, see what your players want to run. While the WEG material is older, it really lets them craft the character they want to craft.
However, it does get annoying at higher "levels." While WEG is a level-less/classless system that lets you build any character any way you want, rolling 12d6 or more can get annoying. :)
I must be in the minority here. I LIKE rolling a bunch of dice (but not too much).
That being said, I've played all three versions of Star Wars, and WEG's D6 is hands down the best in my opinion. The disparity in power due to the level based system just never sat right with me in Star Wars. Sure, great for fantasy, but a level 10 (maybe) Luke Skywalker wouldn't have lasted more then a few rounds against the level 19 Darth Vader.
As was said in a post before, even a storm trooper could take you down (if they EVER hit that is).
It allowed for both the realism (a blaster is a threat, period, and one shot can get you killed) and the cinematic (Luke Skywalker, through luck and sheer will being able to stand against Vader) that Star Wars needs. Also, the whole class based system never sat well with me in Star Wars.
Just to give you an idea of the Jedi power levels in WEG the way that I always defined each Jedi "rank" (and the way that most people I knew did as well) was:
Force skills less then 7 dice: Apprentice or Padawan
7-9 dice: Jedi Knight
10-14 dice: Jedi Master
15+ dice: Jedi Grand Master.
It takes a LONG time to get up to 7 dice in each force skill, creating a great opportunity for some Obi-Wan/Qui-Gonn or Anakin/Obi-Wan style Padawan gaming. Hell, some of my favorite games were where one player agreed to play a starting character and one played a Jedi Knight who was their "Master." With the die codes instead of levels, even a beginning jedi had the ability to contribute, while the master was still the "master." It didn't get this "You're 5 levels higher then me, you go deal with it, cause I'll die if I even get CLOSE to being in combat with that thing" problem. At least not the way that the d20 or Saga rules do.
I was wondering what people thought of each system and why they choose A over B over C sort of thing.
I haven't played SAGA.
d6 had great fluff.
d20 had great crunch.
I loved playing the Living Force campaign under d20 rules. Jedi's were fun but not overpowered, compared to how they felt to me in d6. YMMV.
One thing to remember if you end up playing the Saga version: don't get too hung up about the name of a class. As others have said, no one in the game's universe can read your character sheet.
It's possible to have a Jedi Order character with no levels in the Jedi class. Or non-Jedi Order characters who have levels in the Jedi class. The important thing is to go for the crunch (talents, class abilities, etc.) which correctly supports the flavour of the character concept.
(Having said that, however, some prestige classes have "Jedi" in the name and do require membership in the Order. Ditto for the Sith. Pre-requisites must still be fulfilled.)
I have played d20 and D6 and D6 blows it out of the water we played D20 for about 3 or 4 levels before we got sick of the constraints and converted our characters back to D6 and played them out
D6. Hands down. For the reasons mentioned above. LOVE your viewpoint on Force Power Levels, Chris.
AdAstra, looking forward to D6 Dramatics. Also, what happened to the D6 generic games that were put out a few years ago?
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D6. Hands down. For the reasons mentioned above. LOVE your viewpoint on Force Power Levels, Chris.
AdAstra, looking forward to D6 Dramatics. Also, what happened to the D6 generic games that were put out a few years ago?
All the d6 games (plus most of the supplements) are freely downloadable now.
-d6 Space
-d6 Adventure
-d6 Fantasy
If you want printed copies they are available but d6 Adventure is pretty hard to find.
S.
As was said in a post before, even a storm trooper could take you down (if they EVER hit that is).It allowed for both the realism (a blaster is a threat, period, and one shot can get you killed) and the cinematic (Luke Skywalker, through luck and sheer will being able to stand against Vader) that Star Wars needs. Also, the whole class based system never sat well with me in Star Wars.
This. A lot.
Thanks Stefan. Will download soon.
D6. Hands down. For the reasons mentioned above. LOVE your viewpoint on Force Power Levels, Chris.
AdAstra, looking forward to D6 Dramatics. Also, what happened to the D6 generic games that were put out a few years ago?
All the d6 games (plus most of the supplements) are freely downloadable now.
-d6 Space
-d6 Adventure
-d6 FantasyIf you want printed copies they are available but d6 Adventure is pretty hard to find.
S.
Where can i Down Load them at?
Where can i Down Load them at?
Mixed in amongst the other stuff here:
West End Games D6
Thanks I looks at RPG Now and started downloading them
Sga and D6 are very good and I love them both and was a D 6 holdout up to about a year ago. Avoid the older SWd20 material.
Hi Stefan,
I feel that the WEG (d6) system captured the feel of the Star Wars setting best. It was fast and loose, and allowed for a lot of drama.
But, I never ran more than three sessions back to back.
Friends who were true Star Wars fans played on whole campaigns, spanning years.
While they agreed with the setting being captured by the D6 version, they told me that essentially the D6 version imposed a cap that you reached quickly in a campaign.
The D20 version allowed for more head-room and expansion of the characters.
The Saga system was an attempt to capture more of the flavor of the series.
In terms of capturing the feel of the films: D6 > Saga > D20
In terms of complexity of rules: D6 (simpler) > (Saga == D20)
In terms of expansibility for a long campaign: (Saga == D20) > D6
In service,
Rich
Go to www.drgames.org.
I preferred Saga edition myself. Never got to play WEG d6, but didn't really like d20 revised SW. d20 had too many clunky rules, that to me made no sense. You had to spend HP to use the Force, that never sat well with me. Maybe we weren't doing it right. I greatly liked the "per encounter" feel of Force powers in Saga.
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I think I might be the only person who thinks that SAGA captured the essence of the films better than the D6 version. It is, in my opinion, better at capturing the cinematic essence of the films (all of them!). Even more importantly, though, I feel that SAGA better captured the feeling of space opera/fantasy that Star Wars is based upon.
That, and the ability to play a campaign all the way until the end without a sudden break down in rules is a great plus.
RPG Superstar 2010 Top 16, 2011 Top 32
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I think I might be the only person who thinks that SAGA captured the essence of the films better than the D6 version. It is, in my opinion, better at capturing the cinematic essence of the films (all of them!). Even more importantly, though, I feel that SAGA better captured the feeling of space opera/fantasy that Star Wars is based upon.
That, and the ability to play a campaign all the way until the end without a sudden break down in rules is a great plus.
No, I agree with you. I played the WEG version way back when, and it seemed like we got bogged down in rules a lot. Plus it always seemed to be a Jedi you had to stink at everything else. I like the customization of the Saga rules. It gave the capability to make the character I wanted without sacrificing anything.
This is a work in progress, but we've been working on some revisions for d6 SW here:
http://www.lostknightsrpg.org/wiki/index.php?title=Star_Wars_%28D6%29
I think that the d6 version was nice, but definitely shows it's age, and without revision is pretty much unplayable by today's standards of roleplaying rules. Despite this, many of the concepts it introduced and ways it handled characters were quite interesting and in tune with the setting... it also was THE resource many fiction writers went to for info on the setting, and really helped to flesh out the universe.
The d20 version is not my favorite, it overly weakens the force, but the saga edition shows some promise from what friends have told me.
I played D6 and revised d20, and I must be in the minority here because I liked d20 much more. to be fair, I was already playing DnD 3.x so much of the system was easy for me.
I didn't mind that the force cost "hitpoints" because vitality aren't really hit points. They are more like combat pool in the shadowrun RPG, a measure of your ability to dodge incoming attacks or reduce their severity. Much more movie-esque in my opinion, where every blaster HIT should be game changing. Force powers costing vitality is then chalked up to spending your endurance and concentration to manipulate the force.
The only thing in the d20 version that really got to be an issue is the vehicle movement rules felt weird using move actions. Vehicle combat was actually pretty neat, with shields and vehicle size functioning as DR.
I have taken a look at saga and I have liked what I see. Multiclassing is wayyyy more viable, because there aren't really any set class features by level, its more like rogue talents/rage powers. That practically is as close to a pure skill system as a class system is ever gonna get.
Force powers are also interestingly managed. Instead of sapping your strength, they used like playing cards. After using a power, you can't use it again until either you roll a 20 or spend a force point, at which point all your powers are refreshed.