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We ran through Pathfinder Society Scenario #33 - Assault on the Kingdom of the Impossible on Saturday. Party consisted of (all level 1):
- Myself (and the eidolon)
- Dwarven cleric
- Elven ranger
- Pregen Ezren
Overall it went fairly well. I was essentially the tank with an attached support node (somehow this just went scifi ;) ).
Notes:
- The Summoner SLA (Summon Monster I) was never used. In its current state it is rather useless at level 1 - a full-round action for a single attack that does less damage than my own (longbow @ +3 1d8 dmg)
- The tank-built eidolon works handily as a tank at level 1 - in fact likely outclassing most with the extra hit points. Yes, it has lower AC than most tanks at that level - it would be interesting to crunch some numbers see how average damage received over time works out (I suspect fighter in a breastplate has the upper hand)
- Do eidolons need to sleep? When we were setting up party watches it was assumed that it did not require rest - this was ruled as fitting the theme (spectral bodyguard) but not very balanced (24-hr watch @ +13 Perception - level 1)
- The summoner itself did very little. Basically plinking with the bow and running errands during combat. 2 spells per day ran out fast. This is not so much a balance issue (I have an eidolon, I get it), but not once during the entire encounter did I summon anything. Seems to be lacking thematially. I am not a summoner. I am a pet-sitter.
- Communication between summoner and eidolon is critically important (we spent the first half of the session under the false assumption there was a telepathic link) and severely changes the class dynamic. Essentially anyone can intercept the orders during combat and predict an eidolon's tactics (if they comprehend the language) - is this the intended dynamic?
- Communication between summoner and eidolon is critically important (we spent the first half of the session under the false assumption there was a telepathic link) and severely changes the class dynamic. Essentially anyone can intercept the orders during combat and predict an eidolon's tactics (if they comprehend the language) - is this the intended dynamic?
This was not a false assumption. Check the Eidolon's special abilities (not the evolutions, the specials) under Link.
How was the eidolon built? Quadruped for the higher Dex bonus,improved NA evo, ability increase evo?
What kind of Con did the ranger and cleric have. The eidolon uses average HP, giving it 11+ (2*Con mod) for HP. That shouldn't put the eidolon at more than a couple extra HP.
Link (Ex): A summoner and his eidolon share a
mental link that allows for communication across any
distance (as long as they are on the same plane). This
communication is a free action, allowing the summoner
to give orders to his eidolon at any time.
@Maezer: By played much better, do you mean power level, or ease of use? Granted, power level may not be a problem, since low level casters haven't become gods yet, I'm just curious.
The eagle was usually my prefered summon. And it functional got me a +7 melee attack (w/ charge) for 1d4+2 damage, or three attacks at +5 for 1d4+2 damage either of which I felt was very useful.
I think you're a bit off on the attack bonuses; even with Augmented Summoning the attack bonus is only +3 (the base creature is using Weapon Finesse). Maybe you're including a flanking bonus. I agree that's still better than a longbow shot, though, especially if you add in the smite bonuses (+1 damage on all attacks). I was going to mention a diving claw attack, but maybe that rule was removed from 3.5.
I think you're a bit off on the attack bonuses;Yeah I was including generic flank. It was set up almost every time with party being melee heavy and the full round action making me miss out on the round the combatants closed with each other for the most part. Sorry about not making that clear.
No problem. I definitely agree that it's easy to set up a flank with a summoned monster (which is another point in its favour over plinking with a bow).
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How was the eidolon built? Quadruped for the higher Dex bonus,improved NA evo, ability increase evo?
Check my profile for the build - it is in essence sword and board. Eidolons start with 2d10 HD, giving them more hps than any character at level 1.
Flank support is certainly a valid point, I'll have to use that more in the next session and see how it goes. Note that using an eagle (my plan) would make it trickier as they have to swoop in and out and positioning can be tricksy in a dungeon. :)
I suppose I could summon a dire rat... ick.
Eidolons start with 2d10 HD, giving them more hps than any character at level 1.
Not true. Eidolons do not get maximized first hit die like player characters do. 2d10 averages to 11, and Eidolons can at most have a +2 con bonus (if they spend 2 of their 3 evolution points on Improved Attribute) at first level. They also don't get favored class bonuses.
Any full-BAB character will equal or exceed the average Eidolon's hit points at level 1.
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Not true. Eidolons do not get maximized first hit die like player characters do. 2d10 averages to 11, and Eidolons can at most have a +2 con bonus (if they spend 2 of their 3 evolution points on Improved Attribute) at first level. They also don't get favored class bonuses.
I haven't seen a ruling one way or the other on eidolon hps in PFRPG so I went with 10+6 as per a PC. Running a humanoid (read: biped) eidolon really screws with the way you look at stats.. :|
Can you confirm this with a reference?
Can you confirm this with a reference?
I can confirm it with rules. PCs get maximized first hit die as a special exception to the rule that you roll hit dice. Eidolons (and animal companions) do not get that exception.
You can confirm it with what rule on what page in what book?Can you confirm this with a reference?I can confirm it with rules. PCs get maximized first hit die as a special exception to the rule that you roll hit dice. Eidolons (and animal companions) do not get that exception.
I assume he's talking about this passage from the Core rulebook:
"Hit Points (hp): Hit points are an abstraction signifying how robust and healthy a creature is at the current moment. To determine a creature's hit points, roll the dice indicated by its Hit Dice. A creature gains maximum hit points if its first Hit Die roll is for a character class level. Creatures whose first Hit Die comes from an NPC class or from his race roll their first Hit Die normally."
I don't have a page reference, but it's under "Getting Started":
http://paizo.com/pathfinderRPG/prd/gettingStarted.html