Is there a reason why the summoning spells summon such weak waste of time monsters? I never did get that even in 3.5. In fiction, a Wizard is able to summon a monster that actually helps, or in most cases a monster that's actually as powerful (if not more so) as he is. I've even looked at the Summon Monster IX list and found what you can summon to be pretty disappointing. Summoning a CR 14 at level 17-20? Necomantic Summoning is even worse. What good is summoning 1 HD skeletons at level 7? The things you're fighting will mow through your "army" like a hot knife through butter. The only thing I can think of is that Summoner types are meant to be NPC threats rather than PCs, but even then a DM would have to boost the power of the summoned critters to throw against the party. Maybe I'm looking at this all wrong but shouldn't a level 7 be able to to summon a CR 7 monster and shouldn't a level 17-20 be able to summon a CR 17-20 monster? The only Summoning spell I have ever seen that seems worthwhile is Gate.
Summons are not all tanks and damage dealers. Many are spellcasters and other uses.
Well, in 3.5, by 1st level, you could summon a spider to web every enemy (you had like 7 uses of web per spider). Webs act like nets (causing penalties like entangle).
Pathfinder moved spider to 2nd level spell so you lost this useage a bit.
But you can still summon the Dretch as a 3rd level spell to cast 2 spells (which is a good deal since one is a 3rd level spell).
After that it can be a mook to throw at a enemies (it has DR).
Is there a reason why the summoning spells summon such weak waste of time monsters? I never did get that even in 3.5. In fiction, a Wizard is able to summon a monster that actually helps, or in most cases a monster that's actually as powerful (if not more so) as he is. I've even looked at the Summon Monster IX list and found what you can summon to be pretty disappointing. Summoning a CR 14 at level 17-20? Necomantic Summoning is even worse. What good is summoning 1 HD skeletons at level 7? The things you're fighting will mow through your "army" like a hot knife through butter. The only thing I can think of is that Summoner types are meant to be NPC threats rather than PCs, but even then a DM would have to boost the power of the summoned critters to throw against the party. Maybe I'm looking at this all wrong but shouldn't a level 7 be able to to summon a CR 7 monster and shouldn't a level 17-20 be able to summon a CR 17-20 monster? The only Summoning spell I have ever seen that seems worthwhile is Gate.
you dont think a cr 14 monster can influence a CR 17 encounter?
You can summon a astra deva at 17
Aside from the fact that she can cast heal, and cure light wounds 7 times, remove curse and remove disease at will.
her attack is:
Melee +2 disrupting warhammer +26/+21/+16 (1d8+14/×3 plus stun)
Vs say an ancient green dragon (cr 17) with an ac of 36, thats about 20 damage a round from its attacks unbuffed. A caster however can cast things like haste, or bulls strength on their monster, making them hit much better greatly increasing that damage. Not to mention thats 170 some odd damage that wont be hitting a part member.
The point is a summoned monster is either for utility, battlefield control, a speed bump and a small combat boost, or if you buff it a significant combat participant.
The group I used to play in? We were lucky if we got a CR 19 when we were level 17. After around 5th level, most of our encounters were consistently 3-5 CRs above us. Yeah I know that's not how it's supposed to go, but it's the way our GM rolled. In an encounter that's 3 CRs above you and what you summon is 3 CRs below you, you have a summoned beastie that's 6 CRs below what you're fighting... next to useless in that group. ...and yes, in case you were wondering, PC death was very common.
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even if the summoned critter eats a single attack and goes poof, thats an attack that did not land on a PC.
when you start to combine the effects (Dretch + Stinking Coud comes to mind, or hordes of Mephits all landing Acid Arrow spells) of the higher level summons, they start to come into their own.
Add in Aug Summoning and the Elemental and Cat critters become very respectable in the attack department.
Finally, as simple battlefield lumps, they take up space that could otherwise be filled by enemies. If the Ogre or Giant with 10' reach is 20' away from the Wizard/Sorcerer and unable to get there without chewing through 2 summoned Celestial Horses, that spellcasting PC is just fine.
-t
We were just recently facing a flying spellcaster, and our ranged-weapon deficient party was caught low on resources (wizard just about out of spells). The Druid saved the day with Summon Nature's Ally II. 3 Stirges summoned (max roll on a 1d3, yay). In the three rounds they were around, they sucked the poor caster almost dry. It was awesome. Not only were they dealing CON damage, but they were preventing the caster from, well, casting.
Summoning is a wonderfully versatile tool. Flanking buddies for the Rogue (or themselves). Large creatures can be used for battlefield control, by simply taking up space and making more threatened squares that might make an opponent think twice. Lots of summoned creatures have a niche (like the Stirges) that make them very effective at a particular tactic, even if overall they're not that powerful. They can be used to trigger traps and ambushes without risking the party.
Summoning is awesome. :)
The absolute least summoned creatures are is controllable terrain which is kind of handy itself. Block off a section of the battlefield so you fighters can deal with 2 enemies instead of 4. Just that little bit of utility is enough. One thing I've done is use summons to prevent the BBEG from escaping by summoning something relatively harmless in it's way.
Sucking up damage... any time an enemy is swinging at a summons it's not swinging at one of the players. Summons are the ultimate meat shields.
As someone mentioned flanking can be invaluable, but you can use them to prevent flanking as well, putting them next to the fighter and having them use aid another... speaking of which.
Summon lots of 'harmless' enemies and have them aid another to get big bonuses on attack rolls which stack with every other sort of bonus (including itself). Hello +6 to attacks.
Your spell list is expanded based on the SLAs of the creatures you summon. Common bonus spells -> Aid, magic circle against evil, invisibility, detect invisible, remove curse/ disease.
You can use summoned creatures to bypass specific DR.
The big thing about summons isn't their raw strength but their versatility.
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Maybe I'm looking at this all wrong but shouldn't a level 7 be able to to summon a CR 7 monster and shouldn't a level 17-20 be able to summon a CR 17-20 monster? The only Summoning spell I have ever seen that seems worthwhile is Gate.
You're forgetting the definition of CR.
CR7 monster does not = Level 7 Fighter.
CR7 monster = 4 or 5 Level 7 Players.
Even if the CR of the monster you're summoning is 3-4 lower then the CR of the monster you're fighting, it's got more options, attacks, and usually powers/buff then any individual player can throw out in 1 fight. Not to mention that the monster the party is fighting doesn't HAVE TO attack the summoned creature. If the monster ignores it, it's extra damage being dealt out while the caster continues to do other things.
Think about it another way, what in theory does more damage..
A ranger shooting his bow while his animal companion is attacking or JUST a ranger shooting his bow.
It's the same thing for a spellcaster. A summoned creature is additional damage over time, heal over time, or some whatever ability the creature brings to the table.
Lastly, think about it from a roleplaying standpoint, not a ROLLplaying one. In the middle of a fight, what kind of creature is more likely to "obey" a summoner whose distracted and just ripped it away from it's home; a weaker creature or a more powerful one.
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I remember a situation where the party just had to have some spell or other in a crucial fight -- seemed like only that spell or something nearly identical would save us -- but we didn't have it prepared. And I spent many minutes combing the Monster Manuals for a monster I could summon that had it as a SP or SU ability. Monster Summoning VIII saved us and it had nothing to do with the CR.
I also know, from an RPGA friend, that some 10 or 11 year old girl had a 9th or 10th level Druid that was built specifically around summoning. She and her little animals tore through the RPGA adventures, literally, while the other PCs in the Convention watched. My RPGA friend (whose 9th level Cleric was at that table) couldn't believe how powerful she was. And this was with RPGA character creation rules -- which make for the wimpiest, most un-broken PCs ever in 3rd edition.
But, overall, I agree with the OP. The summoning lists seem too weak.
Being able to summon a creature that would be a challenge for your entire party with one round of casting would be ridiculously overpowered.
As it is, summoning is still VERY powerful and versatile.
If you can summon a creature with one spell, and no material component, who can outfight the party fighter - then that's a spell that needs rebalancing...
As it is, summoning is still VERY powerful and versatile.
I still don't see it. If you could summon more than one critter at a time, maybe...
If you can summon a creature with one spell, and no material component, who can outfight the party fighter - then that's a spell that needs rebalancing...
Isn't that Gate?
Especially on low en midlevels summoning is better than any damage spell you can get. It's almost a spell that
- gives you *lots* of temporary hitpoints (read: takes hits)
- can grapple so enemies can't focus on you
- does damage every round.
A SNA3 does more damage on average than a fireball. Those attacks from the creatures you summon end up doing quite some damage unless the enemy kills the animal first. Which means it takes him 2 or 3 rounds at least not focusing on you. Which spells death for the opponent as well.
Even at high levels those monsters do a lot of damge.
If an opponent doesn't dispatch the SNA5 Ettin first, he has to soak up 4 2d6+8 attacks. That's a theoretical 8d6+32 every round (A 'normal' lvl 9 encounter doesn't generally kill an ettin in 1 round)
Or summon up to 3 tigers. That is a significant help in the encounter in my opinon.
Overall summons are more utility spells than damage dealers. Most of the exampls people are giving are creative uses for what options you have. For the most part you're right, a bunch of skeletons for instance may not inflict much damage before they fall to dust. However, while the beastie is attacking them it isn't attacking you, allowing you to cast more spells unthreatened or a rogue to sneak around for a flanking sneak attack. One of my favorites is a celestial badger personally for a low-level combatant. They don't do much damage but they can rage, have an okay amount of hit points for a low-level creature and give flanking opportunities. I think everyone else already pretty much covered most of my other common uses for summoned creatures.
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Or summon up to 3 tigers. That is a significant help in the encounter in my opinon.
Oh hell yeah. 3 tiger + 1 melee fighter = flanking bonuses all around.
When you're party doesn't have a rogue, how often do you get the benefit of flanking? Not often.. unless you're lucky enough to have a fighter AND paladin in the same party.
I still don't see it. If you could summon more than one critter at a time, maybe...
10 reasons why summoning is good:
1: Summoning is the blast spell that keeps on blasting. Yeah, maybe your fireball does more damage than the Celestial Leopard. However, the Celestial leopard is still doing damage next turn, and the turn after that, and the turn after that...
2: Tired of giving the opponent a saving throw? Summoning takes care of that for you. No save.
3: Tired of SR? No problem, summons don't care about that either.
4: No tripper in the party? No grappler? No problem - you can conjure one out of thin air - and it's not uncommon for them to be better at it than a fighter anyways.
5: Every time your summoned creature gets attacked - you win. Summoned creatures normally take a few hits to be killed, and every time that an opponent attacks a summoned creature, it's like they lost their action. Your summoned creature will never need healing.
6: Summoned creatures increase your spell versatility. With Summon Monster III you can summon a creature that can create a Stinking Cloud, Cause Fear, Tongues, Magic Circle against evil and Aid. That's like spontaneous casting.
7: Summoning is versatile. If you need an attack on an aquatic creature, a flying creature, a landbound creature, a burrowing creature - Summon Monster has the solution.
8: Summon monster is a buff. Flank the summoned monster or have it "aid another" for an easy buff when in doubt.
9: Summon monster is a trap detector. Have that small earth elemental open the chest you think is trapped, or walk down the hallway you just aren't sure about.
10: Summon monster is a scout. Have that small earth elemental walk through the wall and come back and tell you what is on the other side (the cheapest Clairvoyance spell ever), or send the small water elemental to check out that inevitable murky water in the dungeon.
Want 10 more?
Isn't that Gate?
Gate has a costly material component. I prefer to avoid those.
Having played Druid, Mage, and Cleric characters, I have to say I love my summoning spells. Sure the monster doesn't always win the fight FOR us, but I love having strange and wonderful creatures pop out of nowhere to fight alongside us. Not to mention the hundred and one other uses beside just combat. Hippogriffs and elementals anyone? Too many situations to even begin to list here.
I can see a lot of positives to summons, but aren't they fairly easy to shut down offensively as well (provided they are not true neutral, and at lower levels). The Protection from X line of spells available at level 1 for a broad selection of spell casters give a pretty good chance at preventing the summon from being able to attack the target. For example, a Protection from Evil effect as a permanent property of a ring would cost the same as a Ring of Protection +1 following the pricing guidelines.
Yes, it's a limitation of the spell and it will be an issue sometimes, but the majority of opponents won't have prot from X available.
Why wouldn't they have Protection from X available? They are fairly ubiquitous spells that seems to give some strong and useful bonuses for their level. Plus they are very cheap to put in a wand/scroll/potion or on in an permanent form on an item. Given how powerful everyone says Summons are, I'd assume the natural and readily available countermeasure would be showing up frequently as well.
Yes, it's a limitation of the spell and it will be an issue sometimes, but the majority of opponents won't have prot from X available.
Because, if you're not expecting to be fighting a conjurer or cleric, you're probably not going to think to have it up beforehand, and you probably have better things to be doing in the middle of combat than casting Protection From X.
Why wouldn't they have Protection from X available? They are fairly ubiquitous spells that seems to give some strong and useful bonuses for their level. Plus they are very cheap to put in a wand/scroll/potion or on in an permanent form on an item. Given how powerful everyone says Summons are, I'd assume the natural and readily available countermeasure would be showing up frequently as well.
Yes, it's a limitation of the spell and it will be an issue sometimes, but the majority of opponents won't have prot from X available.
In the modules I've run or just read, and in the games I've played in Prot from X is available to the enemies in perhaps 10% of encounters (this is a WAG, not any sort of accurate estimate) . There are tons of critter encounters or mook encounters with non-spellcasters who don't have a potion of protection from good handy.
As I said above you can also summon neutral creatures, or play a neutral caster, then you can summon from both sides of the fence doing a complete end around the whole Protection from Good thing. If they throw up protection from good hit them with a Fiendish crock.
Why wouldn't they have Protection from X available? They are fairly ubiquitous spells that seems to give some strong and useful bonuses for their level. Plus they are very cheap to put in a wand/scroll/potion or on in an permanent form on an item. Given how powerful everyone says Summons are, I'd assume the natural and readily available countermeasure would be showing up frequently as well.
Yes, it's a limitation of the spell and it will be an issue sometimes, but the majority of opponents won't have prot from X available.
Protection from X isn't nearly so effective in Pathfinder. Simply summon an Elemental for example - no Protection from X spell works at all.
Another mark against Protection from X spells: they keep the summoned creatures from physically attacking the person under the effect of the spell but don't save that person from supernatural abilities, spells, or spell-like abilities of the summoned creatures that don't require physical contact, such as the stinking cloud Treantmonk mentioned.
I'm always plugging for the Lantern Archon, so now seems like a good point to do so again.
Lantern Archons are on the summon monster 3 list. At the time you can cast it you get:
2d10 Hit Dice (13 hp)
AC 15 (17 versus evil)
DR 10/evil
Fly speed 60 perfect
2 light rays (ex) +3 Touch attacks 1d6 damage bypasses any DR Range 30 feet
At Will: Aid, Continual Flame, Detect Evil, Greater Teleport (with 50 pounds of objects), continuous Magic Circle Vs Evil
So if the first thing the archon does when it appears is Aid itself it will gain +1 to hit and 1d8+3 HP. That's a minimum of 1/3 it's HP again, and 1/3 it's attack bonus again. Next round you have it attack with a good chance of doing 2d6 damage to your target... magic circles and what not don't really matter since it's an extra ordinary ranged attack. The touch part means it's probably going to hit, and you could critical.
It's even better if you have a Bard in the party. His Inspire courage will affect the lantern archon, and that means (at 5th level) a +2 to hit and damage (meaning +6 to hit and 1d6+2 damage per hit).
IF instead you use a fourth level summons to get 1d3 lantern archons (or even a level 5 for 1d4+1) you'll double the damage output. In addition the DR will help keep the archons around for a while too. They deal enough that someone is going to want to take them out, and that's a win for you since your actual team members aren't taking damage from attacks. The magic circle will help the fighter with a bonus to AC and save throws in addition to the possibility of keeping him from being charmed or what not too.
They still have versatility out of combat with the ability to greater teleport, making excellent messengers and a great delivery service.
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I can see a lot of positives to summons, but aren't they fairly easy to shut down offensively as well (provided they are not true neutral, and at lower levels). The Protection from X line of spells available at level 1 for a broad selection of spell casters give a pretty good chance at preventing the summon from being able to attack the target. For example, a Protection from Evil effect as a permanent property of a ring would cost the same as a Ring of Protection +1 following the pricing guidelines.
At higher levels Dispel Magic/Evil/Chaos/Law/Good/Greater Dispel Magic/Dismissal/Banishment all act as Save or Dies for these creature types or area effect save or dies that can quickly neutralize the summons.
I have seen quite a few PC's with Prot Evil/Chaos/Etc. prepared/known. I have seen a few NPC's with them (or prepared said NPC's myself). Rarely, if ever, have I seen the PC Summoner cause an NPC to cast/drink Prot from Good (or whatever the type of summoned critter) for simple Action Economics.
I can kill the summon, dispel or banish it, avoid it, or try to kill the Summoner/Cleric/other Wizard/Paladin/Fighter, but usually not all of the above. Unless already protected or near a Magic Circle'd friend, I am unlikely to take the time to cast the spell.
All that is not to say it's not a valid tactic, just more likely useful for PC's than NPC's, I guess.
-t
ps: I love summoning!
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Maybe Dork Lord should change the thread title to "Is Summoning Broken?" LoL.
Just remember to have stat cards handy for your summonable monsters.
I love summoning, but the spell is a time sink when a player has to look up the stats for the creature (worse when the DM is using the Monster Manual for the encounter). Not to mention upgrading the creature to Celestial or Fiendish on the fly.
"Has anyone mentioned dropping a whale on the enemy? If not it works, it works well.
And its funny."
that's great! though im not 100% sure that's actually allowed! though maybe if i was DM i might allow it the 1st time even if it's not.
As for the protection from X. one thing i haven't seen addressed is this. say in the BEST case scenario protection X will completely shut that creature down ( very unlikely if it has spells or SU). that is still 1 round the enemy spent to do so. In my current party that 1 round would cost you your life even at 2-3 CR above the party-yeah we're pretty bad @ss. Not to mention my party always has protection from X on hand them selves. why? to counter spell ofc! so even if say that protection from x spell was quickened and he has another spell there's a good chance that quicken was wasted and had NO effect ;)
The group I used to play in? We were lucky if we got a CR 19 when we were level 17. After around 5th level, most of our encounters were consistently 3-5 CRs above us. Yeah I know that's not how it's supposed to go, but it's the way our GM rolled. In an encounter that's 3 CRs above you and what you summon is 3 CRs below you, you have a summoned beastie that's 6 CRs below what you're fighting... next to useless in that group. ...and yes, in case you were wondering, PC death was very common.
I think there is an unwritten rule that every player has to have at least one DM that shows them what not to do.
Has anyone mentioned dropping a whale on the enemy? If not it works, it works well.
And its funny.
Ill add my hat to the normal reasons
Extra flank/or block
Another attacker
Can have tricks you needalthough heres an idea summon a hyena to confuse the gnolls a round free attack
I can't tell if you are serious or not, but you can't summon a creature out of it's natural environment.
The look on the enemy's face when a whale appears over his head would be funny however.
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Has anyone mentioned dropping a whale on the enemy? If not it works, it works well.
And its funny.
Ill add my hat to the normal reasons
Extra flank/or block
Another attacker
Can have tricks you needalthough heres an idea summon a hyena to confuse the gnolls a round free attack
I can't tell if you are serious or not, but you can't summon a creature out of it's natural environment.
The look on the enemy's face when a whale appears over his head would be funny however.
The question is whether or not it was next to a potted flower, perhaps petunias
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The question is whether or not it was next to a potted flower, perhaps petunias
10 points for working Hitchhikers Guide to the Galaxy into the conversation.
:)
The group I used to play in? We were lucky if we got a CR 19 when we were level 17. After around 5th level, most of our encounters were consistently 3-5 CRs above us. Yeah I know that's not how it's supposed to go, but it's the way our GM rolled.
Well, shouldn't the thread be titled "Is my GM a sadistic bastard who likes to kill PCs?"
The question is whether or not it was next to a potted flower, perhaps petunias10 points for working Hitchhikers Guide to the Galaxy into the conversation.
:)
I have the book that came out a few years ago, and I still have not read it. I have yet to see the movie also. I feel like I am really behind the curve since all my friends have seen it
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Has anyone mentioned dropping a whale on the enemy? If not it works, it works well.
And its funny.
Ill add my hat to the normal reasons
Extra flank/or block
Another attacker
Can have tricks you needalthough heres an idea summon a hyena to confuse the gnolls a round free attack
I can't tell if you are serious or not, but you can't summon a creature out of it's natural environment.
The look on the enemy's face when a whale appears over his head would be funny however.
It also works with elephants as they're technically in their environment. Just saying.
Your eloquent points have been well made and I no longer think of the Summoning spells as useless. I just wish there were an option to summon more of lower levels with higher level spells in a single casting.
I still say Gate is the ultimate NPC baddie summoning tool, though. Especially now that there is no xp cost.
As a side note, the game group I spoke of earlier was still fun to play in, mainly because just surviving with one character in that campaign was bragging rights in our circle of friends. In a game where TPK was common, being the only character to walk away was something to be proud of.
Your eloquent points have been well made and I no longer think of the Summoning spells as useless. I just wish there were an option to summon more of lower levels with higher level spells in a single casting.
Yeah, it would rule if the the spells were something like this:
"This spell functions like summon monster I, except that you can summon one creature from the 7th-level list, 1d3 creatures of the same kind from the 6th-level list, or 1d4+1 creatures of the same kind from a lower-level list."
But that's just me and the PRD ;-P
I still say Gate is the ultimate NPC baddie summoning tool, though. Especially now that there is no xp cost.
Yeah! Players hate it even more now! Before, when enemies used it, they lost XP - big deal. But now, they're SACRIFICING THEIR LOOT!!!!! (capitals added to emphasise common player reaction to enemies using perishable commodities).
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Your eloquent points have been well made and I no longer think of the Summoning spells as useless. I just wish there were an option to summon more of lower levels with higher level spells in a single casting.Yeah, it would rule if the the spells were something like this:
"This spell functions like summon monster I, except that you can summon one creature from the 7th-level list, 1d3 creatures of the same kind from the 6th-level list, or 1d4+1 creatures of the same kind from a lower-level list."
But that's just me and the PRD ;-P
I think he means he doesnt want 1d4+1 for everything lower, but more for the lower you go.
1d3's average is 2
1d4+1's average is 3
so I would say 2d3 (average is 4) works well for 3 levels lower,
and 2d4 (average 5) works well for 4 levels lower.
The question is whether or not it was next to a potted flower, perhaps petuniasHas anyone mentioned dropping a whale on the enemy? If not it works, it works well.
And its funny.
Ill add my hat to the normal reasons
Extra flank/or block
Another attacker
Can have tricks you needalthough heres an idea summon a hyena to confuse the gnolls a round free attack
I can't tell if you are serious or not, but you can't summon a creature out of it's natural environment.
The look on the enemy's face when a whale appears over his head would be funny however.
Not again!
I thought the whale was also the ultimate cover for a retreat.
Summon a whale into the dungeon, blocking the central corridors behind you...
Sadly the sky and dungeons are not natural terrain for a whale.
Nope, and unknown to some people on this thread, that is a requirement (specifically stated in the rules) for summoning.
Nope, and unknown to some people on this thread, that is a requirement (specifically stated in the rules) for summoning.I thought the whale was also the ultimate cover for a retreat.
Summon a whale into the dungeon, blocking the central corridors behind you...
Sadly the sky and dungeons are not natural terrain for a whale.
Happily enough a dungeon is natural terrain for an Earth Elemental... and he can be supported by the ceiling by Earth Glide. SO if you REALLY want to drop something that you summon on someone in a dungeon go with the earth elemental, summon it in the ceiling and command it to drop.
However Realize that the rules for falling on something have changed in pathfinder... there is now an attack roll involved (ranged touch increment of 20 feet), and whatever falls takes as much damage as what it falls on, and there is a DC 15 reflex save for half damage (this is in the elemental rules on page 443 and 444).
One other thing that hasn't been mentioned that makes Summoning awesome. You can cast the spells while under the effect of a normal Invisibility spell without breaking out of Invisibility. Since the spell you're casting is not actually an attack. This tactic makes the biggest drawback of the spell, the 1 round casting time (during which concentration checks would be required if you're injured), a whole lot easier to deal with. And since this is normal Invisibility we're talking about, not Greater, it's a lesser drain on party resources (2nd level spell, not 4th) and the duration is minutes rather than rounds.
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Summon is great, but you need to keep it in line with the encounters you expect to face, much like other attack spells. Summon Monster II is unlikely to be much use in a CR 10 battle (except for the odd flank or lucky natural 20).
Bragging Rights: This past friday, my group was acting out the final performance of the Six Trials of Larazod. The Trial by Combat came around and my Conjuror (SpF Conj., Acadamae Graduate and Varisian Tatoo) summoned 1d3 celestial riding dogs (I got 2) with Summon Monster II.
They literally ripped one of the monsters to bits (nat 20, confirmed, smite evil and a high die roll plus a successful trip, then the second one did it in). I don't think acid arrow could accomplish that with one casting at that level, plus I still had another 5 rounds to do that again if the rest of the party hadn't decided to be full of win too. :)
I thought you had to choose a monster from the list for the spell.
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RPG Superstar 2014 Top 16
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My problem with summoning is really a metagame concern -- it takes quite a bit of time at the table. First, most people casting the spells (particularly if they are not built to be a "summoner") need to look up the stats for the monster they are summoning. Then, each action after they summon the creature until it is destroyed, that player basically gets two actions (or more if they summoned additional creatures). That slows down gameplay at the table considerably, and shifts the spotlight away from the other players and to the summoner.
It would probably be fine in a small group, but once you get 5 or 6 players, summoning tends to be a Bad Idea because then every combat will take an hour or more. . .