You get almost everything that makes a good barbarian in the first level.Besides the bad ass 8th and 12th level Rage Powers, and Knockback and Bite from 2nd level? (etc)
I would agree with your assesment in 3.5 - not in PRPG.
Hmm... speaking of Knockback...
I'm pretty sure that a Barbarian using a polearm and readied action could use knockback to keep a single target at arms reach.
Curious though...could a Barbarian using a polearm be able to use knockback on a attack of opportunity?
Yes, they certainly could: Knockback applies to a (melee) attack, which an AoO is.
So that Fighter may well be challenged to Full Attack you toe to toe, and against enemies closing in from further away, you may well Bullrush them far enough back to mean they won't have enough movement left to still get a Standard Attack in (and Bullrushing them diagonal could disrupt a Charge) - Using this in combination with Strength Surge only makes this tactic more viable, as well as Bullrushing on top of a Trip attack, so they also have to stand up if they have movement remaining.
(that's one of the trade-offs you make if you manage to negate the Rage Fatigue and want to re-initiate your Rage round to round to use 1/Rage Powers more often: you have to choose either 'offense' on your turn OR 'defense' off your turn - which given the above example *is* a serious trade-off, thus I don't consider re-initing Rage like this 'broken' or exploitative given it takes serious investment/team-work to be able to use in the first place.)
And Lunge works just as well for such Knockback AoO's.
So yes, ignoring all the bad-ass combos Barbarians can pull off, there's no reason to take more than 1 level.
(Seriously, I don't see why somebody dipping in Barbarian would not take AT LEAST 2 levels to pick up one Power: Knockback or Animal Fury are good ones for any melee type)
Heh... yeah, barbarians are about the best candidates for Improvised Weapon Mastery, aren't they.
Haha, with Catch Off-guard and Throw Anything, even at first level they won't need to dip into their executive expense account to buy weapons.
Now I'm wondering what sort of improvised weapons they could wield two-handed.
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Now I'm wondering what sort of improvised weapons they could wield two-handed.
Goblins work well as two-handed improvised weapons. In the first part of Burnt Offerings the barbarian in my party picked up a dead goblin and used it to attack all the others.
...and his first attack was a confirmed critical!
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I had a Warblade introduce me to the concept that maneuvers don't require specific weapons...
...around the time he Mountain Hammered a Babau with the nearby table, because he had strong arm bracers and a decent strength. After that broke, he moved onto the bookcase, then the other Babau that was dead from his great sword, which broke because of Babau slime.
[threadjack]
Rake these guys sound great - any chance of posting them?
[close threadjack]
+1. Please? ^_^
Now I'm wondering what sort of improvised weapons they could wield two-handed.
I've got a player with Profession (undertaker) whose signature weapon is a shovel.
Now I'm wondering what sort of improvised weapons they could wield two-handed.I've got a player with Profession (undertaker) whose signature weapon is a shovel.
Now that's style! But I think a shovel could well be a "true" weapon, club stats I believe. Or something like the pick but Bludgeoning with less critical.
Uncleden, I think most choices you make regarding any class you pic are related with RP. But of all the classes the one that favors dipping the most, as most have stated, is the barbarian, I do not believe that's a good thing.
I like the way barbarians are now, and I will keep on playing them till the end of time, but I do believe it would be very cool to give'em a little extra choices of rage powers (which will come, thanks the Gods) and improving some existing ones (Mostly the uses and activation time)
EDIT: Here are some ideas I would like to see there [url=http://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/Ultimate_Barbarian_(DnD_Class);[/url] as well as those presented in the Conan RPG Barbarian (which is definitelly awesome)
Now I'm wondering what sort of improvised weapons they could wield two-handed.Goblins work well as two-handed improvised weapons. In the first part of Burnt Offerings the barbarian in my party picked up a dead goblin and used it to attack all the others.
...and his first attack was a confirmed critical!
...and that, sir, is how to barbarian.
...and that, sir, is how to barbarian.Now I'm wondering what sort of improvised weapons they could wield two-handed.Goblins work well as two-handed improvised weapons. In the first part of Burnt Offerings the barbarian in my party picked up a dead goblin and used it to attack all the others.
...and his first attack was a confirmed critical!
I don't know why... but I always think about horses .... hehe.
Now I'm wondering what sort of improvised weapons they could wield two-handed.I've got a player with Profession (undertaker) whose signature weapon is a shovel.Does he introduce himself as The Shoveler? :)
I shovel well.
The Shoveler in Mystery Men.
TWF, spade and trowel style.
One thing that's been missed in this is that Barbarian Rage powers STACK with comparable feats.
For example, a Human 'track star' Barbarian can, at second level, move 55' per round when raging. (Fleet twice, wear a Chain Shirt, take the Extra Movement Rage Power). Which ain't bad for 'You see someone with a pointy hat standing behind the wall of Orcs.' Of course, it's also committing to only wearing Light Armor, but that's what Mithral breast plates are for.
Even without stacking Fleet with Fast Movement, three instances of Fast Movement cancels out the speed penalty for wearing Medium armor, though this is still less effective than taking a 3, 4 or 5 level dip into Fighter.
I do think that making that movement ability scale with Encumbrance was a nerf they put in the Barbarian, particularly with giving fighters Armor Training. Particularly for Small barbarians.
Also, don't forget Strength Surge. When you absolutely, positively want to win that Grapple attempt, with no chance whatsoever of failing it.
Likewise, the Rage Power that gives you an additional Will save after you've blown one stacks with both Iron Will and Improved Iron Will.
Mage tries to make you his butt-puppet. You get three save attempts (before anyone else puts a buff on you) and get to carve him in two.
I've always felt (even in 3.5) that the first Rage bump should happen at 8th level, the second rage bump should happen at 13th, the third should happen at 18th and an additional one (for +10/+10) should happen at 20th, but that's fairly easy to house rule.
In general, don't look at rage powers in isolation. Look at how they stack with existing feat chains.
Barbarian / Rogue would be sufficient ;)I myself have been having lots of fun with a barbarian rogue character. Xum has a point. More than any of the other classes, the barbarian favors dipping. You get almost everything that makes a good barbarian in the first level. After that not so much. Throw a couple of feats at extra rage if you are running out and take fighter from there if you want a straight melee guy. Or go 3 levels mixed with rogue and get uncanny dodge just a hair quicker and have a front line rogue.
The rage talents for sure don't measure up to switching to a different class. Even with the extra hp it is debatable.Unlike Xum i don't actually view this as a problem. Playing a straight class barbarian is mostly a RP decision.
I solidly disagree about the need to support styles other than two handed weapon fighting. If you want an archer or two weapon fighter from the wilderness the ranger is there. Sword and board needs the big stack of fighter feats to make it work.
Well, I've enjoyed Rog/Bbn in 1:1 mix and I had a great time.
To me, I love playing the Barbarian over the Fighter in all but the most unusal cases becaused the Barbarian is a much more mobile character than the Warrior.
They can move at full speed (including their +10 feet speed bonus) in Medium Armor now, which happily ensures we won't be wasting gold on Mithril Breastplates for the bastard DMs to then throw fiendish Rust Monsters at, and while the Barbarian is very much a 'Blitzkrieg' sort of Melee Combatant, able to get into the middle of an enemy mob and start laying about with a big weapon, let's take a look at some strategies that the Barbarian, and only the Barbarian, can pull off:
1) Can't catch me!: With their greater speed, as well as a moderately leveled Acrobatics skill, the Barbarian is cable of moving at high speeds across just about any surface, from the deck of a ship caught in the middle of a storm to leaping across a concealed pit-trap with a mob of enraged Goblins in pursuit. Barbarians are fantastic for setting up ambushes, because they can move faster than almost every other Humanoid barring the Monk.
And before the inevitable 'but monks are faster' crops up, the Monk lacks the Melee Power, hit-points and sheer brutal staying power of the Barbarian. Furthermore, a Barbarian can carry up to a medium load without slowing down, while the Monk can carry just a few items without risking becoming a lame duck. I've been in several situations where the Barbarian could scoop up smaller members of the party and just run like hell without slowing down.
Also don't discount the Barbarian acting as a mobile artilery piece, armed with either a Composite Longbow rated for his Raging Strength or a Firearm such as a Scattergun if you wish to be truly viscious against your enemy. With that speed, the Barbarian can unload one barrel, run 40 feet away, wait for his turn, unload the next barrel on the enemy (assuming at this point the poor fools don't try to run for cover) and then draw his big 2-hander and go to town on the survivors.
2) Wild and loving it. A lot of people ignore the Barbarian's access to Handle Animal and Craft skills. What's more intimidating than a raging Barbarian bearing down on you with a ruddy great axe in hand? A raging Barbarian bearing down on you with a pack of Hunting Dogs at his side. And if people will remember one of the more famous Barbarians in contemporary Fantasy, Conan himself, Conan would often use traps to thin the numbers of the enemy, disheartening them and evening the odds without even getting so much as a scratch himself, or help catch animals or backstabbing thieves making off with an idol or artefact.
Handle Animal allows your Barbarian to make money while the Casters are off making their Staff of Kobold Exsanguination or Jug of Plentiful Beer or whatever, because being able to train a nag into a spirited Warhorse is sure to impress a local Lord or helping the Militia out with a pack of well trained dogs to accompany the militia on their patrols helps smooth out little problems like the Bard being caught in bed with the local Priest's twin daughters, or the Wizard getting involved in some ill-thought-out political power-mongering in the local Mage's Guild.
Barbarians thrive on being able to survive on their own for extended periods of time, either in the wilds or in the seedier parts of town. Most Fighters can't match that sort skill-usage without resorting to losing some of their iconic class features, and Rangers are penalized for wearing Medium Armor in terms of speed. While the Ranger might make for a better outdoors hunter, the Barbarian still makes a handy class to fill the role as well, while still being able to press that needed Melee position that the Ranger is often too lightly armored to fulfill without a severe investment in feats, Dexterity-boosting items and the like, which can easily fall flat in his face the instant he gets flanked by a Rogue.
3) Oh sod this! BWAAAAAAAAAAAARGH!: Few things are as likely to get that pack of Gnolls to go running for the hills like a Halfling ripping their Flind leader in two with her bare hands, or the arrogant Knight finding that, maybe he doesn't need to speak down to the dirty-looking Elf who just put a spear through the Night Hag's heart at thirty paces. Rage abilities mean that the Barbarian has a variety of different tricks to pull out of his bag under any given circumstances.
While many people suggest going with a theme and building upon it, the Barbarian suffers little by taking a variety of Rage-Powers, obvious melee enhancers such as Knockback for the invariably funny 'punting' fights on the bridge and Inreased Damage Reduction can make the difference between your Barbarian pulling off a "Guts" moment (Berserk Manga.... excellent materiel for your Barbarian needs!) or becoming just another stain on that Pit Fiend's claws. At the same point, Scent has great uses when the Barbarian might lack access to visual methods of detecting enemies, and Renewed Vigor is always wonderful in a pinch. Terrifying Howl can allow everyone in the party to gain some additional bonuses against enemies who are now desperately wishing they'd brought a spare change of underwear, and Internal Fortitude allows the Barbarian to take the fight against enemies even the most well-fortified Fighter would flinch away from.
Well with my barbarian build by level 20 I was doing 200+ damage in every hit. If you want my build just ask.
Well with my wizard build by level 5 I was making all the gods call me "pimp daddy P-P." If you want my build just ask.
Well with my barbarian build by level 20 I was doing 200+ damage in every hit. If you want my build just ask.
yes. Please share it :-)
I for one think the barbarian is a bit too weak and some of their powers are just odd. Powerful Blow is just a joke and Swift Foot doesn't stack with haste or longstrider / boost of striding.Edit: A lot of their stuff is circumstantial. Trap sense and their speed.
When do they benefit from Trap sense? Not often.
And their speed? Damage per round assumes a full attack. You have no use of your speed when using a full attack. Run into the room hit a foe and run away does not sound like a barbarian. But I guess he need to run away because he is not a tank, as someone pointed out in this thread.
Further more a lot of his bonuses are moral bonus so they don't stack with bardic music and other stuff. The fighter bonuses are unnamed.
Let's not talk about the Paladin. Smite evil is evil and the paladin get and AC bonus when using smite, but the Barbarian get an AC penalty when rageing. Sure the barbarian get more hit points, but he get hit a lot of the times. The Paladin can heal himself as a swift action and have spells and immunities and good will saves and can use heavy armor just like the fighter.
A TWF fighter and a smiting paladin will always make the barbarian look weak. Let's face it. At higher levels most foes will be evil. A lot of them will be evil outsiders, undeads or dragons...or evil spell casters. Paladin rock. Fighters are not as good but better than the Barbarian.
[...]Rangers are penalized for wearing Medium Armor in terms of speed.[...]
So are barbarians. And rangers have longstrider.
Well with my barbarian build by level 20 I was doing 200+ damage in every hit. If you want my build just ask.yes. Please share it :-)
I am going to assume he was using 3.5 feats. I can't see a pathfinder barbarian putting out those types of numbers with only core feats.
with a Barbarian built for pure damage (I don't care how much I take I only care about how much I give)That's the thing mate, it won't. Unless you have EIGHT points more in strength AND u r in rage, u won't deal the same damage as the fighter at high level. (U gotta have the mighty rage to do that, or u would have to have TEN more points in strength)
This is true, but not always true. Remember the fighter's weapon training/spec is in one type of weapon or group of weapons.
The barbarian can afford to be less specialized, also has more skill points and speed than the fighter. A fighter who specializes in one weapon SHOULD do more damage than the barbarian. He is an expert and trains with it to as close as perfection as one can get.
The barbarian with catch off guard and improvised weaponsmaster can bludgeon someone to death with a summer sausage when enraged.
They can switch from greatsword to heavy flail to ranseur and have the same benefits with each weapon.
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I'm calling shinigans/alt source materials on the 200 damage barbarian.
Barbarians do well at low levels; where being able to get a 23 strength and deal 2d6 + 9 is all you need in life. But they don't scale at all; unlike the Fighter and his growing damage bonuses/feat options or the paladin's god-smite, the barbarian rage receives tiny bonuses, and their DR is laughable. The rage abilities are more flavor than function as well.
So they join the Ranger/Monk as the wishlist of improvements. I doubt they change the base classes, though knock on wood they'll at least get some great feats in the APG.
I think people go a bit overboard with claims that the barbarian is useless. Certainly at low levels, the barb I have seen has done great, better then any other class including fighters and paladins. We also played a level 10 game last night where the barb held his own quite well. He was doing about the same damage every round as the 2 weapon fighter/rogue mix. I agree numerically it looks like the barb has lost an edge to the fighter, but in actual game experience I just do not see it. It seems that the barb does what he has always done, and does it fairly well.
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I mean, Barbarians at 10 should have a +15 to hit after power attack with rage, and before magic items be swinging for 2d4 + 18 with a 1 in 4 chance to crit. Certainly workable, but that is just a product of straight BAB and power attack; the rage is just +2 to hit +3 damage with lots of cute but mostly useless keywords and low AC.
In comparison, the same fighter has +2/+2 at all times, probably same speed (ignore armor, he is in heavy, barbarian +10 in medium), and a vast array of versitile feats to draw from. The pally lacks that +2 to hit or damage, but has amazing saves and 3 times per day goes into boss kill mode (+5 to hit +10 damage +5 ac vs evil guy).
Barbarians do decent at very low level because adding +4 to strength is unbeatable low levels (1-4). The issue is they don't scale like the good front lines; they just rely on being a straight BAB attacker; so they start to lose steam in comparison. They really just need stronger rage powers and faster gain on their DR to give them what they need. They still do fine; they're just not going to do quite as well.
Barbs can also be a decent debuffer to help their survival rate. A half orc Barbarian who makes a small effort to crank up Intimidate and combine that with Dazzling Display and Terrifying Howl won't have many opponents to face. Just getting your opponent Shaken negates the AC penalty for raging.
Barbs can also be a decent debuffer to help their survival rate. A half orc Barbarian who makes a small effort to crank up Intimidate and combine that with Dazzling Display and Terrifying Howl won't have many opponents to face. Just getting your opponent Shaken negates the AC penalty for raging.
The only problem is that they are going to spend precious feats + not so precious rage power slots + Actions he could be smashing...
I do love the terrifying barbarian... When there is a real reason for him to be scary, right now, there is not.
Hmm, well here's a 10th level barb I built fairly quickly. She can deliver the pain as well as make nearly anything near her level shaken and possibly panicked.
10th level Half Orc Barbarian
Ability Scores:
STR: 22 (+6) (16 base, +2 racial, +4 Belt), 26 (+8) when raging
DEX: 14 (+2)
CON: 16 (+3) (15 base, +1 level), 18 (+4) when raging
INT: 10 (0)
WIS: 12 (+1)
CHA: 14 (+2) (13 base, +1 level)
Hit dice: 10d12 +40 (109hp) (+10hp when raging)
Saving Throws:
Fort +11, Reflex +6, Will +5
(When raging, +1 to Fort saves, +3 to all saves vs. spells and spell-like abilities, reroll failed Will saves once)
Armor Class:
Normal: 24 (10 base, +10 armor, +2 DEX, +1 Ring, +1 Amulet)
Raging: 22, or 24 when activating Guarded Stance
Feats:
Weapon Focus (Greatsword), Intimidating Stance, Dazzling Display, Power Attack, Skill Focus (Intimidate)
Rage (25 rounds/day) – Rage Powers: Intimidating Glare, Superstition (+3), Guarded Stance (+2 to AC), Clear Mind,
(Improved Uncanny Dodge, etc. blah blah)
Skills:
(10 ranks, +2 racial, +3 class skill, +2 CHA, +6 STR, +6 Skill Focus, +3 magic) --
30 points to spend
Attacks:
+2 Keen Greatsword: +19/+14, 2d6+11 (normal) or +21/+16, 2d6+14 (raging), (17-20 x2)
Gear (62,000)
+2 Keen Greatsword (18,050)
+4 Chain Mail (16,150)
+4 Belt of Giant Strength (16,000)
Circlet of Persuasion (4500)
Ring of Protection +1 (2000)
Amulet of Natural Armor +1 (2000)
Handy Haversack (2000)
Cloak of Resistance +1 (1000)
300gp remaining
Fighters might outdamage barbarians, but that doesn't mean Barbarians are bad at damage. Also a panicked foe doesn't fight back, and that helps keep the entire party safer.
What kind of stats are you using? That looks like "roll 3d6 a hundred times and keep the best six."
Pretty good.
What is that? Intimidating Stance?
I think that's supposed to be Intimidating Prowess:
Intimidating Prowess (Combat)
Your physical might is intimidating to others.
Benefit: Add your Strength modifier to Intimidate skill checks in addition to your Charisma modifier.
Still, most barbarian PCs I see have Cha 8 or less, rather than 14, so an Intimidate bonus of 3 points lower is more realistic.
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Good build; it's 2 rounds, but 23 will is non-trivial at level 10, so can catch people. And it's something a non-Barb can't do; as to stats, lower Wis to 10 and you have a 25 point build.
Much better than Barbs I've generally seen played; I have a little more respect for them now :). Early levels hit hard, level 8 spend 2 rounds to get everyone running.
I think that's supposed to be Intimidating Prowess:
Intimidating Prowess (Combat)
Your physical might is intimidating to others.
Benefit: Add your Strength modifier to Intimidate skill checks in addition to your Charisma modifier.Still, most barbarian PCs I see have Cha 8 or less, rather than 14, so an Intimidate bonus of 3 points lower is more realistic.
Why, you can build your no-charisma character and do something else. I will take my bonus to intimidate with this build. Just because a stat is typically a dump stat doesn't mean if your basing your character arround an ability you will dump the related stat.
As a note, add a bard to this guy's party also using dazzling display, and you get a lot of fun pannicked people, against things that can be intimidated.
What kind of stats are you using? That looks like "roll 3d6 a hundred times and keep the best six."
Hm, let me crank it down to the elite array and see what we get.
10th level Half Orc Barbarian
Ability Scores:
STR: 20 (+5) (13 base, +2 racial, +1 level, +4 Belt), 24 (+7) when raging
DEX: 14 (+2)
CON: 16 (+3) (15 base, +1 level), 18 (+4) when raging
INT: 10 (0)
WIS: 12 (+1)
CHA: 8 (-1)
Hit dice: 10d12 +40 (109hp) (+10hp when raging)
Saving Throws:
Fort +11, Reflex +6, Will +5
(When raging, +1 to Fort saves, +3 to all saves vs. spells and spell-like abilities, reroll failed Will saves once)
Armor Class:
Normal: 24 (10 base, +10 armor, +2 DEX, +1 Ring, +1 Amulet)
Raging: 22, or 24 when activating Guarded Stance
Feats:
Weapon Focus (Greatsword), Intimidating Prowess, Dazzling Display, Power Attack, Skill Focus (Intimidate)
Rage (25 rounds/day) – Rage Powers: Intimidating Glare, Superstition (+3), Guarded Stance (+2 to AC), Clear Mind,
(Improved Uncanny Dodge, DR 2/-, etc. blah blah)
Skills:
(10 ranks, +2 racial, +3 class skill, -1 CHA, +6 STR, +6 Skill Focus, +3 magic)
--
30 points to spend
Attacks:
+2 Keen Greatsword: (crit 17-20 x2)
-- Normal +18/+13, 2d6+9 dmg
-- Normal Power Attack +15/+10, 2d6+18 dmg
-- Raging +20/+15, 2d6+12 dmg
-- Raging Power Attack +17/+12, 2d6+21 dmg
Gear (62,000)
+2 Keen Greatsword (18,050)
+4 Chain Mail (16,150)
+4 Belt of Giant Strength (16,000)
Circlet of Persuasion (4500)
Ring of Protection +1 (2000)
Amulet of Natural Armor +1 (2000)
Handy Haversack (2000)
Cloak of Resistance +1 (1000)
300gp remaining
Going down to a CHA of 8 didn't really hurt. And you could swap the starting STR and CON ability scores around, but I didn't want to reduce her hit points. With how easy it is for this barbarian to make people Shaken, you could easily go without Guarded Stance for some other rage power if you wanted, maybe increased DR instead. And yeah, that should have been the Intimidating Prowess feat.
the main problem is they would have to spend several feats to do this, and they do not get any bonus on that... It's not a bad build, but because of it, you would leave several good (must have) options behind, like cleave and such.
Mr. Fishy would rather fight shaken enemies than mad ones. Shaken lowers attacks, saves and skills. Mr. Fishy likes not getting hit and failed saves.
What is best in life "Crush your enemies, see them driven before you and to here the lamation of the women," that's whats best in Mr. Fishy's life.
Hm, let me crank it down to the elite array and see what we get.
Yeah, those look a lot closer to things I'd see in a normal game -- good deal; a good concept should be able to work even if the base stats aren't all superhuman.
the main problem is they would have to spend several feats to do this, and they do not get any bonus on that... It's not a bad build, but because of it, you would leave several good (must have) options behind, like cleave and such.
"Must haves" seem pretty subjective based on what you're trying to achieve. I'm sure someone could make a barbarian that causes more sheer pain, but this is more of a Controllerbarian, a guy who can scatter foes, watch them trample each other to get away, and then can kick their dropped weapons and magic items back towards his allies. And the few people who don't run away screaming get an angry greatsword to the face as a reward.
Hm, let me crank it down to the elite array and see what we get.Yeah, those look a lot closer to things I'd see in a normal game -- good deal; a good concept should be able to work even if the base stats aren't all superhuman.
Funny, those stats looked normal, if not a little weak to me.
the main problem is they would have to spend several feats to do this, and they do not get any bonus on that... It's not a bad build, but because of it, you would leave several good (must have) options behind, like cleave and such.
And what makes cleave must have? If your usually fighting big guys, it doesn't help that much. It all depends on your game and what you want to do with the character.
Hm, let me crank it down to the elite array and see what we get.Yeah, those look a lot closer to things I'd see in a normal game -- good deal; a good concept should be able to work even if the base stats aren't all superhuman.Funny, those stats looked normal, if not a little weak to me.
the main problem is they would have to spend several feats to do this, and they do not get any bonus on that... It's not a bad build, but because of it, you would leave several good (must have) options behind, like cleave and such.And what makes cleave must have? If your usually fighting big guys, it doesn't help that much. It all depends on your game and what you want to do with the character.
Just an example mate, it's not set in stone. The main thing is Barbarians are one of the only classes that do not get any bonus feats. So they can't spend as much as most. Spending 3 feats to acomplish that is a lot and would slow down the progression he would take in combat. It's not a bad build, it's just single minded, and when you cannot use it, u r completelly screwed. Of course u can say that for any build.
Funny, those stats looked normal, if not a little weak to me.
I guess if you're accustomed to straight 18's, they probably would. I'm a "roll 4d6, drop the lowest" guy, which means that elite NPC stats are usually close to PC stats.
Yeah, except that most of the enemies are monsters that have these MASSIVE racial mods that completely trivalize the PC's stats, that's a fun way to play *rolleyes*Funny, those stats looked normal, if not a little weak to me.I guess if you're accustomed to straight 18's, they probably would. I'm a "roll 4d6, drop the lowest" guy, which means that elite NPC stats are usually close to PC stats.
No, I'm not playing a monster, neither are any of the other PCs. That stat block just looks weak compared to what I see in games. I don't play in organized play.
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Right, in a sense this character doesn't even care about the "lower" damage from the lack of cleave; if anything that feat would take away from his AC so he wouldn't want it. Early levels his damage is stellar, as strength + rage will do that for a person. Late game he probably draws out his shield while raging and sets up a nice dazzling display/howl action to panic everyone around him. Like I said, I'm very impressed, it shows Barbarian can have a roll in doing something not possible by a fighter, and staying relevant for say, as long as PFS lasts (till level 12). So bravo, now make me a monk and ranger that doesn't suck (Treatmonk failed :() and we'll stop complaining about bad classes :).
Also, correct me if I am mistaken but you could get AC up a good bit by wearing Mithril Full-Plate; at least in 3.5 that counted as Medium armor. Have they changed that.
No, I'm not playing a monster, neither are any of the other PCs. That stat block just looks weak compared to what I see in games. I don't play in organized play.Yeah, except that most of the enemies are monsters that have these MASSIVE racial mods that completely trivalize the PC's stats, that's a fun way to play *rolleyes*Funny, those stats looked normal, if not a little weak to me.I guess if you're accustomed to straight 18's, they probably would. I'm a "roll 4d6, drop the lowest" guy, which means that elite NPC stats are usually close to PC stats.Oh, I wasn't complaining about that lol.
It just bugs me that monsters have such massive stats as opposed to humanoids who literally get boned by comparison.
I know it can be(and to some degree is) balanced regardless with the whole class levels thing, but it's still not very much fun to be a "Strong Warrior of great reknown" and not be able to beat an ogre at arm wrestling even if you used both hands and your whole bodyweight and it played fair lol.
Just a flavor issue is all.
Well to be fair, Ogres and Giants are all about strength, so it'd seem strange to me if Gronad the Barbarian were able to easily out armwrestle a monster twice his size with arms bigger than his torso. Monsters are monsters... they're supposed to be better than a PC. It's why a CR 3 monster is balanced to take on a party of four level 3 adventurers.
But in order to be epic it shouldn't be common place... it's that thing that happens on a 20 and everyone remembers.
...
Beowulf physically overpowered an Troll or Ogre or somesuch through sheer physical power. That's the kind of thing I want to see PC's achieving...
Human, 25 points epic build
STR 20 from the start, 25 at level 20, add Bbn mighty rage and suddenly you overpower a Bestiary fire giant. Now take into account that heroes of Beowulf's caliber tend to wear magic items and throw in a strength surge (+20 on a strength check on level 20) Even a storm giant must be careful... well, is that epic enough? :D