|
Only really scratched the surface of the PDF before going to bed but what struck me as odd was the summoner gaining proficiency in light armor and the ability to cast in light armor without penalty.
Looking through the rest of the class he gets abilities to share hit points with his eidolon, can take aspects of his eidolon to improve AC and gain damage reduction as well as having the staple wizard protections like mage armor and shield on his spell list. he even has more hit points than a mage (d8 over d6) so why does he need light armor? and more to the point why is he trained to overcome its penalty to casting?
Also how will this ability work with the existing arcane armor feats? can a summoner take arcane armor mastery and apply it to his summoner spells only? if not why must he waste a feat learning something he already has (although limited to one class)?
My personal feeling is that this should just be dropped for 2 reasons, A) its not really that useful and B) it could cause more head-aches and miss-interpretations with existing rules.
Way I see the class is he's a combat caster who could use a bit of armor. Spell list is mostly buff spells, he's proficient with weapons, decent attack bonus, and he can even mutate his body later on to grant himself unique attacks.
Bugger you reminded me they get share spell...and then they get large size, and then the mounted summoner, with...dammit...I was already banned from playing familiars.
Bugger you reminded me they get share spell...and then they get large size, and then the mounted summoner, with...dammit...I was already banned from playing familiars.
Out of curiosity, why? If you did something to break a familiar I need to know so I can use it or let my players know about it so they can use it, if its not too powerful.
|
|
Way I see the class is he's a combat caster who could use a bit of armor. Spell list is mostly buff spells, he's proficient with weapons, decent attack bonus, and he can even mutate his body later on to grant himself unique attacks.
I can understand that sort of argument for the Bard but then the bard doesn't have access to mage armor or shield spells and certainly doesn't have an ally as powerful as the eidolon plus summoned creatures they remain for 1 minute per level to back him up. This sort of question never really dawned on me for a bard because of there side line requirement for light armor in relation to skills too. its difficult to picture a bard using anything except light armor but for the summoner it would seem even less likely that the character would have spent time learning to cast spells in armor when he has spells that protect him far better.
sure a summoner can use his mage armor on others and probably will at low levels over himself but thats not really the issue - its about viability of training. A bard had light armor because his spell progression was far slower than a wizard and in 3.5 only have cantrips until 3rd level (unless his cha was high enough to grant a bonus at 2nd!) Pathfinder removed this by giving them 1st level spells at 1st level but that didnt reduce their need for personal protection. The summoner has that protection through magic so doesnt really need light armor for free - I can see summoner builds taking arcane armor training sure but as part of its core class it just doesn't really fit.
|
|
Bugger you reminded me they get share spell...and then they get large size, and then the mounted summoner, with...dammit...I was already banned from playing familiars.
Share spells doesnt work the same way in pathfinder as they did in 3.5 - 3.5 you could cast shield on yourself and it would also affect your familiar within the same casting - under pathfinder you must cast it twice.
it would seem even less likely that the character would have spent time learning to cast spells in armor when he has spells that protect him far better.
Right, right, agreed, forgot the whole common sense thing, why would he learn to cast in armor? If he wants to there are feats to learn, bards have that whole excuse with spells being more verbal and the somatics are supposed to be simpler in nature.
As far as familiar breaking, it's off topic, but it was old 3.5 so thankfully most of it doesn't carry over. You can still easily polymorph your familiar into something and share spell pretty much everything in the book including transformation last. Thankfully, pathfinder got rid of the whole stat changing so a polymorphed familiar is still a semi weak critter...unless you're a small character with a tiny familiar, that could open up some options.
Share spells doesnt work the same way in pathfinder as they did in 3.5 - 3.5 you could cast shield on yourself and it would also affect your familiar within the same casting - under pathfinder you must cast it twice.
And that is wonderful news, another one of those rules I assumed didn't change and never had a reason to look up, thank you paizo
|
I believe it's because the summoner uses the bard chassis, so light armor made sense within that view, especially since he has much fewer spells/day to cast mage armor or shield with.
Actually, I'm surprised the summoner didn't get whip proficiency like the Bard did - it would seem to fit a summoning-based class, much as net proficiency would.
I was kind of surprised to see d8/mid-BAB/light armor for the Summoner. I guess it's solely to allow him to buff his pet during combat and be able to take/avoid a few knocks while doing so.
The eidolon seems like a pretty powerful class feature on its own, though. The additional martial prowess might be a little too much. I think I'd prefer the Summoner to consider whether casting Magic Fang on Fang during combat is worth risking life and limb.
I was kind of surprised to see d8/mid-BAB/light armor for the Summoner. I guess it's solely to allow him to buff his pet during combat and be able to take/avoid a few knocks while doing so.
The eidolon seems like a pretty powerful class feature on its own, though. The additional martial prowess might be a little too much. I think I'd prefer the Summoner to consider whether casting Magic Fang on Fang during combat is worth risking life and limb.
I think the caster would do it. It's no different than any caster buffing anyone else, and if he knows you are coming he will be pre-buffed.
Actually, my current build for our next game is a mounted combat Summoner.
Spent feats to get Martial Weapon (Lance), Mounted Combat, Rideby Attack, and a feat from the Miniatures book, Mounted Casting.
Planning on the Eidolon having Flyby Attack for swooping charges where we can both attack.
Only really scratched the surface of the PDF before going to bed but what struck me as odd was the summoner gaining proficiency in light armor and the ability to cast in light armor without penalty.
Looking through the rest of the class he gets abilities to share hit points with his eidolon, can take aspects of his eidolon to improve AC and gain damage reduction as well as having the staple wizard protections like mage armor and shield on his spell list. he even has more hit points than a mage (d8 over d6) so why does he need light armor? and more to the point why is he trained to overcome its penalty to casting?
Also how will this ability work with the existing arcane armor feats? can a summoner take arcane armor mastery and apply it to his summoner spells only? if not why must he waste a feat learning something he already has (although limited to one class)?
My personal feeling is that this should just be dropped for 2 reasons, A) its not really that useful and B) it could cause more head-aches and miss-interpretations with existing rules.
The Summoner armour prof is an extra that I feel will be useful. They may have access to Mage Armour but with limited spell picks it does not become the most important priority at low level. Also the first time a magical chain shirt becomes available it becomes better than the Mage Armour Spell. Personally I feel that a low level caster needs all of the extras that they can get hold of to stay alive. Not having to burn spells on a defensive spell makes the character more versatile.