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'The Orb Of The Waybringer' (Gods and Magic p. 58)
3900gp; CL 3rd
1/day breath weapon as per burning hands except electricity
If follower of Apsu, in addition: 1/day eagle's splendor and light at
will.
What is the cost breakdown for this item? Also, how many dice does the burning hands do? 1d4? 3d4? 5d4?
If I had to guess the damage that the breath weapon does I would put it at 3d4 to coincide with the caster level of the Orb. Mybe someone from Paizo can answer your cost question.
Just my 2 cp.
I'd say the costing should be the same as having an item without the requirement of "Must worship god X to invoke these extra features" since that's basically a curse that's been added to the item.
Whether you can reliably infuse the same curse into an item is another question but it seems like it should be possible.
Other Considerations: Once you have a cost figure, reduce that number if either of the following conditions applies:
Item Requires Skill to Use: Some items require a specific skill to get them to function. This factor should reduce the cost about 10%.
Item Requires Specific Class or Alignment to Use: Even more restrictive than requiring a skill, this limitation cuts the price by 30%.
Worship is not Class or Alignment but this could be a guideline.
I'd apply the 30% price reduction to the restricted to worshippers abilities cost.
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I'd apply the 30% price reduction to the restricted to worshippers abilities cost.
Those rules should only penalize you when selling an item, and never when buying an item.
Being able to buy an item using the 30% discount violates the item creation rules themselves by providing an item that works better for one class/religion/etc than another.
In the 3.5 world, with the WotC FAQ, it was clear those reductions (10 & 30%) were not ways to buy/build items less expensive and only effected looted items the party wants to sell.
So more than likely, the price will be as if the light/esplend worked for everyone despite the fact it doesn't.
I'd apply the 30% price reduction to the restricted to worshippers abilities cost.Those rules should only penalize you when selling an item, and never when buying an item.
Being able to buy an item using the 30% discount violates the item creation rules themselves by providing an item that works better for one class/religion/etc than another.
In the 3.5 world, with the WotC FAQ, it was clear those reductions (10 & 30%) were not ways to buy/build items less expensive and only effected looted items the party wants to sell.
So more than likely, the price will be as if the light/esplend worked for everyone despite the fact it doesn't.
What?! (googles WOTC FAQ) Ok, discounts are not against the rules per se, but VERY subject to rule 0.
Yes, but what is the price breakdown for this item? It has 3 abilities; 1 0 level at will, 1 first level 1/d and 1 second level 1/day. The math and religion restrictions have me flummoxed, I confess.
The price breakdown could be:
3 similar abilities, highest level is normal price, 2nd 75%, 3rd 50%.
Command word, I assume, so:
Spell level x caster level x 1,800 gp
CL=3
Eagle's splendor(2160gp) 2 x 3 x 1800 /5(1 charge/day)
Burning hands( 810gp) 1 x 3 x 1800 /5(1 charge/day)x0.75 (2nd ability)
Light(1350gp) 1/2 x 3 x 1800 x0.5 (3rd ability)
Adding up to 4320 gp.
More than the listed price. Maybe we could apply a little discount? like 10% for the faith restriction?
4320 - 432 = 3888 round up to nice value... 3900 gp Jackpot!
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3 similar abilities, highest level is normal price, 2nd 75%, 3rd 50%.
4320 - 432 = 3888 round up to nice value... 3900 gp Jackpot!
Coincidence, since that is not a "similar ability" in the rules.
Similar abilities draw from the same source, so for instance if you had 1/day blah OR blah2 (using either would prevent the other until the next day.)
It seems more clear to me the 1/day abilities are both able to be used in a given day. Therefore, they are Different Abilities and not Similar Abilities.
Also, I should point out that often there is no valid breakdown of items. Often items don't follow the formulas. Take the ring of invis for example, it is priced higher than it should be by the formulas.
Coincidence, since that is not a "similar ability" in the rules.3 similar abilities, highest level is normal price, 2nd 75%, 3rd 50%.
4320 - 432 = 3888 round up to nice value... 3900 gp Jackpot!
Spell-like function looks like a good description to these three abilities to me.
Similar abilities draw from the same source, so for instance if you had 1/day blah OR blah2 (using either would prevent the other until the next day.)
It seems more clear to me the 1/day abilities are both able to be used in a given day. Therefore, they are Different Abilities and not Similar Abilities.
That's not based on any rule in the book that I'm aware. If you could quote the text sustaining this maybe I'd take it into consideration.
Also, I should point out that often there is no valid breakdown of items. Often items don't follow the formulas. Take the ring of invis for example, it is priced higher than it should be by the formulas.
Nice way to avoid getting drawn into disproving my approach by getting a plausible price breakdown yourself.
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Spell-like function looks like a good description to these three abilities to me.
That's not based on any rule in the book that I'm aware. If you could quote the text sustaining this maybe I'd take it into consideration.
3.p p549 says "Multiple Different Abilities: Abilities such as ... spell-like function are not similar"
Multiple Similar Abilities are things like a Staff (same formula on p552) and are used when the abilities draw from the same source (in a staff that is charges but in a 1/day like Prayer Beads of Healing it could be a selections of spells you can use in one day.)
At no point can you use MSA for things that are not tied to each other, like when you want to allow each to be used in the same day.
Nice way to avoid getting drawn into disproving my approach by getting a plausible price breakdown yourself.
I don't have a dog in which way this is torn down, I was just pointing out that reverse engineering the items you will more often than not run into inconsistencies with the formulas.
3.p p549 says "Multiple Different Abilities: Abilities such as ... spell-like function are not similar"Multiple Similar Abilities are things like a Staff (same formula on p552) and are used when the abilities draw from the same source (in a staff that is charges but in a 1/day like Prayer Beads of Healing it could be a selections of spells you can use in one day.)
At no point can you use MSA for things that are not tied to each other, like when you want to allow each to be used in the same day.
the full text on p552 is:
Multiple Different Abilities: Abilities such as an attack roll bonus or saving throw bonus and a spell-like function are not similar, and their values are simply added together to determine the cost. For items that take up a space on a character's body, each additional power not only has no discount but instead has a 50% increase in price.
It's obvious to me that the dissimilar abilities mentioned are the bonuses vs the spell-like functions(different formula). Not spell-like vs spell-like(same formula).
I used the same formula for all abilities of the object so mechanically they are similar to me.
I don't have a dog in which way this is torn down, I was just pointing out that reverse engineering the items you will more often than not run into inconsistencies with the formulas.
This I agree with. But this will not keep me from trying to give the OP what he wants. Even if it's only a guideline.
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Multiple Different Abilities: Abilities such as an attack roll bonus or saving throw bonus and a spell-like function are not similar
It's obvious to me that the dissimilar abilities mentioned are the bonuses vs the spell-like functions(different formula). Not spell-like vs spell-like(same formula).
Wow.
That text could not have been more clear to me to mean the exact opposite of what you suggest. This is interesting, so can you explain to me the words that make you believe that?
To me the words "Abilities such as (enumerated list) are not similar" are there to show the list of things (including spell like functions) that are by strict definition not something that Multiple Similar Abilities covers.
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So more than likely, the price will be as if the light/esplend worked for everyone despite the fact it doesn't.
Correct.
When building an item, you calculate the cost to create it as if it were in the hands of an optimal user. Otherwise it's basically cheating. Observe:
Ezren makes a headband of vast intelligence +6. Cost to create: 18,000 gp
vs.
Ezren makes a headband of vast intelligence +6, but it only works for male humans (discount!) named Ezren (discount!) who are at least "old" age (discount) and were born in Absalom (discount!). Cost to create: ridiculously cheap, even though it works exactly like a standard headband +6.
For the OP's question:
Eagle’s splendor 2*3*1800/5 = 2160
Burning hands SL1 x CL3 x 1800/5 = 1080
Using the "multiple different abilities" guideline, we multiply the cost of the burning hands ability by 1.5 to get 1620
2160 + 1620 = 3,780
Glowing with light at will is pretty insignificant--it's not as good as being able to cast light at will (because only the orb lights, rather than being able to cast it on a coin you can throw, an ally's weapon, etc.), so I didn't use the standard SL .5 x CL 3 x 1800 for an on-command unlimited cantrip. Furthermore, the caster level of an unlimited-use light cantrip has a negligible effect (the effect on the duration is irrelevant because it's an at-will ability, and the increased resistance to a dispelling attempt is essentially irrelevant). Plus, the option to light at will is something you get for free in magic weapons, so throwing it in here at something than the formulaic cost is fair. As the mathematical price of the item so far is a non-simple number, I rounded the price up to 3,900 gp (1) to take into account the cost of the light ability, and (2) to make the final gp price nicer.
Wow.That text could not have been more clear to me to mean the exact opposite of what you suggest. This is interesting, so can you explain to me the words that make you believe that?
To me the words "Abilities such as (enumerated list) are not similar" are there to show the list of things (including spell like functions) that are by strict definition not something that Multiple Similar Abilities covers.
I read it as Abilities A or B, and C are not similar. Where C is different from A and B. But C is not different from C.
Maybe I had it all wrong. But then why the "or"? Why not say A and B and C? This is a bit confusing and these subtleties appear to evade me.
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The Multiple Similar Abilities guideline is mainly for staves, i.e., we have a bunch of themed attack or utilitarian spells (healing, frost, etc.) in an item that doesn't use a body space (you don't wear it), and odds are you won't be wanting to use multiple of them at once (you wouldn't cast charm monster and charm person in the same round, both of which are spells from a staff of charming). Thus, it's not like you're combining two useful magic items together for the purpose of avoiding the body-slot limitations, and thus you shouldn't have to pay extra for it.
The Multiple Different Abilities guideline is pretty simple once you realize it's addressing two different things:
(1) items with different abilities that don't use a body slot. An ioun stone that gives +2 Dex and +2 Con is functionally the same as two separate stones, one of which gives +2 Dex and the other gives +2 Con. This is because the stones don't take up any body slots, so by combining the powers of the two stones, you're not gaining any advantage by combining or splitting the powers of 1 or 100 stones. Thus, you just add up the costs and don't include any multipliers.
(2) items with different abilities that do use a body slot. A ring of protection +1 uses a ring slot, a cloak of resistance +1 uses a cloak slot; a ring that combines the ring of protection +1 and a cloak of resistance +1 is significantly better than wearing the two items because you've freed up an entire item slot; now you can wear a cloak of displacement and your ring of protection and resistance +1 at the same time. Thus, the item is greater than the sum of its parts, and you have to pay the +50% multiplier on all the secondary item powers.
(The second example also applies to most other items with use-based powers; a ring that lets you cast spider climb and cure light wounds once per day each is better than two items with one power each.
Oh, now I understand...
Thank you very much, Sean.
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When building an item, you calculate the cost to create it as if it were in the hands of an optimal user. Otherwise it's basically cheating. Observe:
Ezren makes a headband of vast intelligence +6. Cost to create: 18,000 gp
vs.
Ezren makes a headband of vast intelligence +6, but it only works for male humans (discount!) named Ezren (discount!) who are at least "old" age (discount) and were born in Absalom (discount!). Cost to create: ridiculously cheap, even though it works exactly like a standard headband +6.
So then why bother to include these discounts? When would you ever use them, other than perhaps to screw over PC's by including treasure they not only might not be able to use but also can't sell for as much money?
That's pretty much the reason--and it's not me being a jerk, it's (insert evil race) being jerks.
And it makes people who max out Use Magic Device happy for their investment.