Role: Iron mages are warriors first and foremost, but they use magic to supplement their attacks and bolster defenses. Though individual specialties might vary, any iron mage is a stalwart ally in battle.
Starting Gold: As fighter.
Starting Age: As wizard.
Alignment: Any.
Hit Die / BAB: d10 / Full
Good Saves: Fortitude, Will
Class Skills: Climb (Str), Craft (Int), Handle Animal (Cha), Intimidate (Cha), Knowledge (arcana) (Int), Linguistics (Int), Profession (Wis), Ride (Dex), Spellcraft (Int), Swim (Str)
Skill Ranks per Level: 2 + Int modifier
Spell progression as Paladin/Ranger.
1st: Arcane Strike, school focus, warding 1
2nd: Witching 1
3rd: School power
4th: Read magic, warding 2
5th: Low arcana 1
6th: Witching 2
7th: School power
8th: Warding 3
9th: Low arcana 2
10th: Witching 3
11th: School power
12th: Warding 4
13th: Low arcana 3
14th: Witching 4
15th: School power
16th: Warding 5
17th: Low arcana 4
18th: Witching 5
19th: Greater Witching
20th: High arcana, warding 6
Weapon and Armor Proficiency: Iron mages are proficient all simple and martial weapons and with light and medium armor and shields (except tower shields). An iron mage does not incur the normal arcane spell failure chance from wearing light or medium armor, or from wearing a shield. Like any other arcane spellcaster, an iron mage wearing heavy armor incurs a chance of spell failure if the spell in question has a somatic component. A multiclass iron mage still incurs the normal arcane spell failure chance for arcane spells received from other classes.
Arcane Strike: At 1st level, an iron mage gains Arcane Strike as a bonus feat. He can use this feat despite not yet having a caster level.
School Focus: Every iron mage selects a primary school of arcane magic from which he draws the majority of his power. He may choose Abjuration, Evocation, Necromancy or Transmutation, and gains the benefits of the Spell Focus and Greater Spell Focus feats when casting iron mage spells from that school. At 3rd, 7th, 11th, 15th and 19th levels an iron mage gains additional powers from his school of focus. When casting a spell from his school of focus, an iron mage gains a +3 bonus to his caster level (effectively causing his caster level to become equal to his iron mage level).
Warding (Su): An iron mage weaves magic into potent defenses. Once per day as a free action, he can activate a warding of the first rank which lasts for a number of minutes equal to his level, gaining an effect depending on his school focus. At 4th level, and every 4 levels thereafter, the iron mage's warding improves by one rank, improving its effects; see the individual school descriptions for details. Additionally, with each new rank this ability can be used one additional time per day.
Witching (Su): At 2nd level, the iron mage learns to imbue his attacks with greater arcane might. Whenever he activates Arcane Strike, his weapon delivers an additional effect depending on his school of focus. At 6th level and every 4 levels thereafter, the iron mage gains another rank of witching, increasing its effects as specified in the school description. Additionally, extra damage gained from the Arcane Strike feat is equal to the iron mage's witching rank rather than being based on his caster level.
Read magic (Sp): Beginning at 4th level, an iron mage can use read magic at will as a spell-like ability. His caster level for this ability is equal to his iron mage level - 3.
Spells: Beginning at 4th level, an iron mage gains the ability to cast a small number of arcane spells which are drawn from the sorcerer/wizard spell list. An iron mage must choose and prepare his spells in advance.
To learn, prepare or cast a spell, the iron mage must have an Intelligence score equal to at least 10 + the spell level. The Difficulty Class for a saving throw against an iron mage's spell is 10 + the spell level + the iron mage's Intelligence modifier.
Like other spellcasters, an iron mage can cast only a certain number of spells of each spell level per day. His base daily spell allotment is given on (see Table: Paladin). In addition, he receives bonus spells per day if he has a high Intelligence score. When (see Table: Paladin) indicates that the iron mage gets 0 spells per day of a given spell level, he gains only the bonus spells he would be entitled to based on his Intelligence score for that spell level.
An iron mage may know any number of spells. He must choose and prepare his spells ahead of time by getting 8 hours of sleep and spending 1 hour studying his spellbook. While studying, the iron mage decides which spells to prepare.
Through 3rd level, an iron mage has no caster level. At 4th level and higher, his caster level is equal to his iron mage level – 3.
Spellbooks: An iron mage must study his spellbook each day to prepare his spells. He cannot prepare any spell not recorded in his spellbook. A character with levels in both iron mage and wizard can use a single spellbook, and does not need to keep track of which class a recorded spell belongs to.
Upon gaining 4th level, the iron mage gains a spellbook containing one 1st level spell of his focus school, and an additional number of 1st level spells equal to his Intelligence bonus, which can be of any school. At each new iron mage level, he gains one new spell of any spell level that he can cast (based on his new iron mage level) for his spellbook. At any time, an iron mage can also add spells found in other spellbooks to his own.
Low Arcana: Upon reaching 5th level, the iron mage pursues techniques to more effectively utilize his spells in combat. He can follow one of two methods: spell fluency or weapon component. Once the method is chosen, it cannot be changed. The benefits of low arcana apply only when casting iron mage spells, even if the iron mage can cast the same spells with slots from other classes.
An iron mage who pursues spell fluency practices certain spells until casting them is second nature. He chooses one known 1st-level spell. From that point on, he can prepare this spell without referring to a spellbook and does not provoke attacks of opportunity when casting it. When cast, this spell it is treated as one level higher for all purposes. Finally, if he prepares it with metamagic other than Heighten Spell, the iron mage ignores one spell level of increase. He gains this benefit again at 9th level with a 2nd level or lower spell, at 13th level with a spell of 3rd level or less, and at 17th level with any spell of up to 4th level.
If he chooses the weapon component method, the iron mage carefully refines his martial techniques in tandem with spellcasting, working them into a single cohesive discipline. When wielding a melee weapon with which he is proficient, he gains the benefit of the Eschew Materials feat and can use the weapon in place of any non-costly focus component. Additionally, he can perform somatic components using the weapon as if it were a free hand. Finally, when wielding such a weapon he gains a +1 competence bonus to all caster level checks. This bonus increases to +2 at 9th level, +3 at 13th level, and +4 at 17th level.
Greater Witching (Su): At 19th level, the iron mage can perform a greater witching attack as a standard action. He makes a single attack which is imbued with Arcane Strike and his witching effect, plus an additional effect depending on his school of focus.
High arcana: At 20th level the iron mage's warding and witching become innate. His warding is always active, except when suppressed by anti-magic. He gains the benefit of Arcane Strike, including his witching effect, on every weapon attack without needing to spend a swift action to activate it.
Abjuration
Your specialize in hindering the enemy's offense, both magical and physical.
Warding: You gain a +2 (per rank) shield bonus to AC. This is a force effect.
Witching: The target suffers a -2 (per rank) penalty to attack rolls for 1 round. Additionally, your weapon overcomes any damage reduction based on alignment.
Greater Witching: A creature damaged by your attack finds itself pacified for one round. When so affected, it treats all other creatures as if they were protected by the sanctuary spell. The saving throw DC to overcome this protection is equal to 10 + 1/2 your iron mage level + your Intelligence modifier.
School powers:
- Protective Ward (Su): At 3rd level, as a standard action, you can create a 10-foot-radius field of protective magic centered on you that lasts for a number of rounds equal to your Intelligence modifier. All allies in this area (including you) receive a +1 deflection bonus to their AC for 1 round. This bonus increases by +1 for every five iron mage levels you possess. You can use this ability a number of times per day equal to 3 + your Intelligence modifier.
- Unfettered (Su): Beginning at 7th level, once per day as a swift action, you can touch a creature to bestow the benefits of the freedom of movement spell for a number of rounds equal to 1/2 your iron mage level. You can use this ability an additional time per day at 10th level, and every 5 levels thereafter.
- Greater Dispel Magic (Sp): You can use greater dispel magic as a spell-like ability once per day at 11th level, and twice per day at 17th level.
- Arcane Ablation (Su): At 15th level, you gain spell resistance equal to your iron mage level + 12.
Evocation
Yours is the magic of raw energy and destruction, but also of controlled force.
Warding: You gain a +1 (per rank) deflection bonus to AC.
Witching: You deal +1d4 (per rank) force damage. Additionally, your weapon is considered to have the ghost touch enhancement.
Greater Witching: A wave of force follows your weapon, brutally impacting against any creature struck. This attack doubles your normal witching bonus (including the bonus damage from Arcane Strike), and grants you a free bull rush against the target with a +5 circumstance bonus. If your bull rush is successful the subject flies away from you and falls prone. The target moves the full distance indicated by your bull rush result unless an obstacle prevents it, in which case it falls in the nearest square adjacent to that obstacle, and both your target and the obstacle take 1d6 points of damage. Unlike a normal bull rush, you cannot follow your target.
School powers:
- Force Missile (Su): At 3rd level, as a standard action, you can release a force missile that automatically strikes a foe, as magic missile. The force missile deals 1d4 damage + 1 for every 2 iron mage levels you possess. You can use this ability a number of times per day equal to 3 + your Intelligence modifier.
- Spell channeling (Su): Beginning at 7th level, once per day as a move action, you can imbue your weapon with any evocation spell you have prepared. The spell is expended as if cast. The next successful attack made with that weapon delivers the spell's effects to the creature struck, allowing no saving throw or spell resistance. Regardless of the spell's normal targets or area of effect, only the creature struck is affected. If a successful attack is not made with that weapon within a number of rounds equal to 1/2 your iron mage level, the imbued spell is lost. You can use this ability an additional time per day at 10th level, and every 5 levels thereafter.
- Forceful Hand (Sp): You can use forceful hand as a spell-like ability once per day at 11th level, and twice per day at 17th level.
- Reactive Defense (Su): At 15th level, whenever you take damage from a physical attack, the impact triggers a burst of force which streaks back to the attacker, dealing damage equal to your witching bonus.
Necromancy
You weave dire curses to confound your foes, and fortify your own body with negative energy.
Warding: You gain DR 1/- (per rank).
Witching: The target suffers a -1 (per rank) penalty to attack rolls, saving throws, skill checks and ability checks for 1 round. Additionally, your weapon overcomes any damage reduction based on the type of damage dealt.
Greater Witching: A creature damaged by your attack suffers a severe curse of unluck for one round. Whenever the subject makes an attack roll, a saving throw, or a skill or ability check, it must roll twice and take the worse result.
School powers:
- Grave Touch (Su): At 3rd level, you can make a melee touch attack as a standard action that causes a living creature to become shaken for a number of rounds equal to 1/2 your iron mage level. If you touch a shaken creature with this ability, it becomes frightened for 1 round if it has fewer Hit Dice than your iron mage level. You can use this ability a number of times per day equal to 3 + your Intelligence modifier.
- False Flesh (Su): Beginning at 7th level, once per day as an immediate action, you can gain temporary hit points equal to twice your iron mage level. These hit points vanish after a number of rounds equal to 1/2 your iron mage level. You can use this ability an additional time per day at 10th level, and every 5 levels thereafter.
- Eyebite (Sp): You can use eyebite as a spell-like ability once per day at 11th level, and twice per day at 17th level.
- Eeriness (Su): At 15th level, as a free action at will, you can radiate an aura of necromantic energy which causes all creatures within 30 feet to become shaken for one round unless they succeed on a Will saving throw with a DC equal to 10 + 1/2 your iron mage level + your Intelligence modifier. You can exclude a number of creatures equal to your Intelligence bonus from this effect, and you are immune to your own fear aura.
Transmutation
Your arcane art grants adaptability and tactical advantage.
Warding: You gain a +1 (per rank) enhancement bonus to natural armor and reflex saving throws.
Witching: All of the target's movement speeds are reduced by 5 feet (per rank) for one round, to a minimum of 0. Additionally, your weapon overcomes any damage reduction based on special materials.
Greater Witching: Your weapon momentarily passes through parallel planes as you attack, bypassing physical defenses. You ignore any armor, natural armor or shield bonuses to your target's AC, unless those bonuses arise from force effects. Critical hits threatened by this attack are automatically confirmed. On a successful hit, you cause the target's physical defenses to become insubstantial, allowing any other physical attack made against the target to gain the same benefits for one round.
School powers:
- Expedience (Su): At 3rd level, as a free action, you can increase all of your base movement speeds by 5 feet per 2 iron mage levels you possess. This adjustment is treated as an enhancement bonus, and lasts for 1 round. You can use this ability a number of times per day equal to 3 + your Intelligence modifier.
- Distortion (Su): Beginning at 7th level, once per day as a move action, you can change the size of yourself or one creature within 30 feet of you for a number of rounds equal to 1/2 your iron mage level. You may increase or decrease the target's size by up to two categories. An unwilling creature is entitled to a Fortitude saving throw, DC = 10 + 1/2 your iron mage level + your Intelligence modifier. If you choose to enlarge the target and insufficient room is available for the desired growth, the creature attains the maximum possible size and may make a Strength check (using its increased Strength) to burst any enclosures in the process. If it fails, it is constrained without harm by the materials enclosing it. You can use this ability an additional time per day at 10th level, and every 5 levels thereafter.
- Mage's Lucubration (Sp): You can use mage's lucubration as a spell-like ability once per day at 11th level, and twice per day at 17th level.
- Morphic Reach (Su): At 15th level, your natural reach increases by 5 feet.
I have been watching the debate over this "gish" thing for days and I gotta say, I do like this Ironmage concept. It's a fighter without all the feats, and a wizard with slowed progress, yet its not simply a bard. What I thought was really cool is how the different "flavors" of the class come through. One of the great things I think with Pathfinder wizards, is their specialty really gives them a different feel.
My only suggestion would be to toss them a few cantrips. Perhaps something that just gives them the utility of a wizard like Mend or Light. Meaning you could restrict their list (but doing that turn into headaches as new spells come out as 3.5 showed me.)
It's nothing that could "break" them, but rather add to the flavor. Or perhaps give them it in some X/day format. I understand your reason from the other thread about not wanting to muck it up though. My group played 4E (bit your tongues) for a while, and the lack of utility powers is what ticked a lot of my players off. Returning to Pathfinder it seems these minor little powers make players feel heroic right from the start. A first level cleric or wizard has infinite basic magic. I'd love to see a Ironmage have something like Mend all he/she wants. Afterall, somebody's gotta fix their weapons.
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This is a very good looking class. I don't have an option for testing it out right now but it looks pretty well balanced and I love the ideas of different abilities from different schools. It make the class into several different classes instead of a shoe-horned class that plays the same each time.
Great job! I hope this works out from a balance stand-point.
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I have been watching the debate over this "gish" thing for days and I gotta say, I do like this Ironmage concept. It's a fighter without all the feats, and a wizard with slowed progress, yet its not simply a bard. What I thought was really cool is how the different "flavors" of the class come through. One of the great things I think with Pathfinder wizards, is their specialty really gives them a different feel.
My only suggestion would be to toss them a few cantrips. Perhaps something that just gives them the utility of a wizard like Mend or Light. Meaning you could restrict their list (but doing that turn into headaches as new spells come out as 3.5 showed me.)
It's nothing that could "break" them, but rather add to the flavor. Or perhaps give them it in some X/day format. I understand your reason from the other thread about not wanting to muck it up though. My group played 4E (bit your tongues) for a while, and the lack of utility powers is what ticked a lot of my players off. Returning to Pathfinder it seems these minor little powers make players feel heroic right from the start. A first level cleric or wizard has infinite basic magic. I'd love to see a Ironmage have something like Mend all he/she wants. Afterall, somebody's gotta fix their weapons.
Perhaps a shortened list of cantrips(mending, light, detect magic, message, and prestidigitation would be my choices for this list) that can be used spontaneously at 3+int times per day. Or let them pick 3-5 cantrips for their list.
Perhaps a shortened list of cantrips(mending, light, detect magic, message, and prestidigitation would be my choices for this list) that can be used spontaneously at 3+int times per day. Or let them pick 3-5 cantrips for their list.
Something like that would work. I wold lean towards the X+ int mod cantrips known. Lets them scale with level (assume their INT increases as they level) and avoid forward compatibility issues. I would say let them have it at first level too, or in the level prior to getting their "real" spells. Just 2 more copper.
Hmm. Cantrips are the big request. I totally agree that if I can work them in there it'd be good flavor for the class.
So here's my other set of concerns. :)
First: it makes no sense, thematically or otherwise, to give the class cantrips at 4th level. You've spent all that time studying magic around your sword drills, make the breakthrough to first level spells, and... also, just then, make the breakthrough to 0-level spells, half of which are already useless? No, they should come at 1st level if they come at all.
The problem is, they need a caster level. Do I give the class its full level as CL, and change it to a -3 CL penalty for spells other than those in your focused school? For starters, that's clunky. My existing +3-for-one-school system is already a little odd, but this creates even more exceptions: your cantrips get full level regardless of school, unless we go back to the only-one-cantrip model (which is terribly unfair to Abjuration). On top of that, it's inconsistent with the progression of the paladin and ranger, and there's a major mechanical side-effect: the iron mage will have full-caster access to item creation feats, rather than having to wait three or (usually) four levels after the wizard. In the specific case of Craft Arms and Armor I could almost see this being appropriate... but should he really be taking Craft Wondrous Item or Brew Potion before he even gets his normal spells?
I could specify that your cantrips are always CL 1, but touch of fatigue is a round per level... not worth the action when you've got the greatsword cantrip as an alternative.
Finally, remember that all of these cantrips are spells! They provoke attacks of opportunity and require a free hand. The latter can be circumvented by making them spell-like abilities and that might be okay. But until 5th level, the former can only be circumvented by making them supernatural... and while the idea of touch of fatigue with a scaling save DC is pretty sweet, it's totally not fair to the wizard. So ultimately, I just don't see any way cantrips will be useful in combat for this class without making them something other than cantrips. The non-combat cantrips don't have a distribution which plays nice with the school focus theme (transmutation and evocation get all the fun).
So... there's one option left, I suppose. Would everyone be satisfied with prestidigitation as a spell-like ability, fixed at CL 1?
Perhaps having them pick a set number of cantrips that are cast as their character level. Other spells use the Lvl -3 model. Like you learn 1 cantrip per INT mod.
The only reason I would mention them is because many of them (Detect Magic, Light, Mend, Read Magic) are, to me at least, quintessential to the whole arcane feel. The whole provoking AoO, shouldn't be too much of an issue since very few cantrips are worth it in combat more then using your weapon.
I don't see the cantrips as something you study but rather bonus things you learned from you magic practices. Think of it as one of those humanities you had to take in college.
At least detect magic X/days. Paladins get their detect and they fall into the hybrid role too.
I will hand down agree that something like this just makes an already complex class even more complex.
The more I think about it, the more I like prestidigitation. I mean, the first line of the spell description is: "Prestidigitations are minor tricks that novice spellcasters use for practice." It has no level-dependent variables so I don't think it needs a caster level at all.
So, at 1st level:
Prestidigitation (Sp): An iron mage can use prestidigitation as a spell-like ability at will. There is no caster level associated with this ability. Unlike most spell-like abilities, the spell's normal components are required, and he suffers a chance of failure if he attempts to use this ability in heavy armor.
And add that last sentence to his 4th-level read magic, too.
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Perhaps a shortened list of cantrips(mending, light, detect magic, message, and prestidigitation would be my choices for this list) that can be used spontaneously at 3+int times per day. Or let them pick 3-5 cantrips for their list.I have been watching the debate over this "gish" thing for days and I gotta say, I do like this Ironmage concept. It's a fighter without all the feats, and a wizard with slowed progress, yet its not simply a bard. What I thought was really cool is how the different "flavors" of the class come through. One of the great things I think with Pathfinder wizards, is their specialty really gives them a different feel.
My only suggestion would be to toss them a few cantrips. Perhaps something that just gives them the utility of a wizard like Mend or Light. Meaning you could restrict their list (but doing that turn into headaches as new spells come out as 3.5 showed me.)
It's nothing that could "break" them, but rather add to the flavor. Or perhaps give them it in some X/day format. I understand your reason from the other thread about not wanting to muck it up though. My group played 4E (bit your tongues) for a while, and the lack of utility powers is what ticked a lot of my players off. Returning to Pathfinder it seems these minor little powers make players feel heroic right from the start. A first level cleric or wizard has infinite basic magic. I'd love to see a Ironmage have something like Mend all he/she wants. Afterall, somebody's gotta fix their weapons.
Or a fakey's battlewand......
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I would offer these suggestions:
Ditch the "once per day" activation on the Warding, and make its duration "2 rounds per level per day, activate as a free action." I can see many a malicious DM deciding the best way to deal with a walking, talking Medium-Armor'd Mage would be to make him walk in a circle for 20 minutes, and it removes the need to keep a specific track of time.
Change Evocation's Warding to be "Resist 2 damage caused by Magic per Tier." Takes away the feeling that its a weak copy of Abjuration, offers a reasonable protection against magical weapons/wizards/traps and the like.
Change Necromancy's Warding to allow the caster 2 DR per tier. DR 5/- is nice, but not at level 20, and not when your friend Abjurationator the Mighty is walking around with +10 AC as compensation for his time spent learning the ways of Iron Magery.
And, I generally agree with Weylin, as far as gaining Armor goes.
Otherwise, I love the idea, and I think its top-notch work! Good going man.
I think this is the best arcane warrior that uses paladin like casting I have ever seen. Like the flavor and abilities.
@Studpuffin - Arcane Strike is also the trigger for Witching, that's why you start with it.
@Sheboygen - possibly a good call on Warding usage. Starting with only 2 is a little low, but a rounds per day mechanic might be better overall even if it's something else to keep track of... I forgot about dick GMs. Of course, they'll just find another avenue, but yeah. ;) Anyone else have an opinion on long-duration uses per day vs. bookkeeping rounds per day?
The big advantage of Evocation's warding is that it applies to touch AC, and isn't redundant with an actual shield. (Of course, part of the advantage of Abjuration's is that you have no need for an actual shield.) To be honest I think the energy resistance mechanic is more appropriate to Abjuration (Evocation would keep deflection), but first I'd like to weigh in with some numbers; see below under armor proficiency. :)
re: DR vs. AC - first note that it's Warding 6 at 20th, so that's DR 6/- as opposed to +12 shield bonus to AC. The necromancer (or anyone else) can put on a +5 heavy shield and be only 5 AC behind than the abjurer. Now, is DR 6/- worth 5 AC at level 20? Depends on what you're fighting, really, but often enough the answer is no. Thing is, these abilities don't exist in a vacuum. The abjurer's witching debuff is stronger for defensive purposes, but the necromancer's is far more debilitating overall (making things die faster), and I'd argue his Greater Witching is superior as well (against melee -- abjurer wins against casters). The necromancer also has False Flesh to fall back on vs. big-single-hit. Meanwhile, DR 2/- seems disgustingly broken at 1st level, and finishing with 12/- makes the barbarian cry in the corner. I'm not rejecting the idea, but I'd like to hear playtesting or at least a few more good arguments addressing my concerns.
I addressed the armor proficiency thing on the first draft thread. I really don't want to phase it in gradually. This is not a duskblade, he doesn't start with spells and even the Evoker has significantly less extra damage. The school focus makes plays a big part in tactics, but at the core it's a front-line class like a fighter or paladin, not a skirmishing heavy-hitter like a ranger or rogue. He needs to avoid hits, and when he can't, he needs to survive them. Rightfully he should have heavy armor; the warding feature is the only reason he can get away with medium (and the fact that warding goes to a higher bonus than enchanted items is the only reason it doesn't suck in the long run). If the iron mage can't cast his single bonus 1st-level spell in medium armor at 4th level (the fighter now has full movement in medium armor every other arcane caster has 2nd level spells), why isn't he a bard?
Let's do some hard comparison. Likely tank gear at level 8: full plate +2 (+11 AC), can apply +1 from Dexterity, large shield +2 (+4 AC), amulet of natural armor +2, ring of protection +1. Total AC: 29.
With medium armor you're reduced to a breastplate, losing 3 AC, but can apply an additional +2 Dex: total 28.
With light armor, you're down another 2, with +1 more Dex: total 27.
Fighter has armor training 2, iron mage has warding 3.
Even the abjurer doesn't quite match the fighter, and the paladin will kick all their asses standing up to evil. Switching them down to light armor loses a point of AC (now the paladin is ahead) and forces them into a finesse or ranged role. Giving them medium armor later is pointless because they've already moved into a role which doesn't want it. Many will enjoy that role and wear light armor anyway, but I really don't see a good reason to force it.
The abjurer and arguably necromancer's witching effects are good enough to offset this in certain situations, but depending on them for survival is really a fool's game.
Balanced and a good job.
Don't agree on cantrips being added and I think the spells should be trimmed back to a select list but I agree on the choice of schools.
Keep the heavy armor from the off as the spells don't kick in until 4th/5th.
What about being a spontaineous caster using CHA instead of INT? Using a spell list similar to that of the Warmage?
Spacelard - I don't want to make him a spontaneous caster for three reasons:
And, I don't want to give him a restricted class list for three other reasons:
Spacelard - I don't want to make him a spontaneous caster for three reasons:
There aren't many Int-based casters (only one core), Cha is the dominant arcane flavor overall.
Prepared casting is, I think, part of the half-caster balance model. And in any case, it saves me having to figure out a spells known progression.
I really prefer the "I worked very hard to figure this out" flavor over the "yeah baby, I'm just that good" flavor for this theme. And, I don't want to give him a restricted class list for three other reasons:
Forwards compatibility. Splat happens!
On at least a cursory review of Sor/Wiz levels 1 through 4, I didn't find anything that seemed broken; and looking at levels 5 and 6, I didn't see anything that could reasonably be lowered for access.
It would probably be more work than building the class in the first place, and a lot less fun. :)
Cool. All good reasons and FWIW I do think you have the spells schools perfect. The only problem that I can see is players picking Evocation blast spells and trying to be the blaster instead of using spells to help boost their martial abilities. However saying that I don't see that as much as the classes fault but the players.
Maybe you could give him slots o prepare cantrips from his spell1book. this way he wouldn't qualify for anything spontaneous. things like detect magic, light, and mage hand are trademarks of arcane casters.
I would not give him cantrips as he is not a full caster. He is a half caster and they do not get at will cantrips
The only problem that I can see is players picking Evocation blast spells and trying to be the blaster instead of using spells to help boost their martial abilities. However saying that I don't see that as much as the classes fault but the players.
To be honest, they wouldn't suck that hard at it; they lack staying power, but not raw output. I designed some of the class features around exactly this concept, because I know it's attractive to a lot of people. Consider a level 13 iron mage with 18 Int (14 +4 enhancement, realistic), evocation focus and the spell fluency option. He can use his 4th level slot for an empowered fireball (-1 metamagic adjustment from spell fluency) which deals 15d6 and has a DC 20 saving throw: 10+3 base, +2 Greater Spell Focus, +4 Intelligence, +1 increased effective spell level. If he only wants to deal this damage to a single target (and I very deliberately didn't restrict Spell Channeling to melee weapons), he deals that 15d6 (fireball) + 1d8 (bow) + 3d4+3 (witching/ArcaneStrike) plus some Strength and enhancement bonus. Alternately replace bow with longsword plus more Strength, or greatsword and even more Strength and probably power attack.
Now on the one hand, he can only do this once per day. On the other hand, ~70-80 damage is far more than a 13th level rogue can turn out in a single round, and more than a third of any CR13's hit points. (More than half of an iron golem, and it actually takes the damage since channel bypasses SR.)
Edit: Aside - a friend of mine is going to start a CotCT game next weekend, and I actually get to be a player again. I'm going to try to convince him to let me test this class out in that game. I have absolutely no idea which school or low arcana I want to use. I'm rather proud of that. :)
I'd like to chime in to mention that this is one of the more original arcane fighter archetypes I've seen lately, so kudos to you on accomplishing that. Some things I've noticed or had issues with were already brought up by others, so there's no reason for me to repeat them.
One thing that came across as odd was 'Witching'. I understand what you're attempting, but I'm not sure if that description pulls off the mechanics concept for me. Any particular reason why you chose it and/or had you bandied around any other description for this class talent?
One thing that came across as odd was 'Witching'. I understand what you're attempting, but I'm not sure if that description pulls off the mechanics concept for me. Any particular reason why you chose it and/or had you bandied around any other description for this class talent?
"The witching way," "witchblade." Mostly it just sounds cool, especially with the alliteration: "witching and warding."
Originally (stolen from a rough concept by Loopy) it was "combat arcana," and "warding arcana." Really, it was just the rolls-off-the-tongue factor. :)
Edit: I figure that both the class name and the name of that power were assigned by (common bumpkin) observers, not the practitioners of the art. Folk what don' know witch fro' wizard, and din' see no poinny hat no-how.
Edit - also:
Some things I've noticed or had issues with were already brought up by others, so there's no reason for me to repeat them.
Disagree! I had reasons for most of the design, but they could have been wrong reasons. Extra dissenting voices = extra incentive to reevaluate.
The only other problem I have is the name...
All I have now is "I am Iron Mage!" running through my head ala Black Sabbath Iron Man.
Now I have read this let me say a few things
1> Arcane strike, not sure I like allowing it without a caster level, however giving him a ablity that does the same thing seems like a bad way to up word count. So I have to agree with you leveling it in
2>I am not sure about this really. First your giving him 2 free feats all the school powers and giving him a casting boost with his school. This is all to much. You need to split the feats up at lest, Myself I would not give him the feats as you already gave him the +3 caster level with his school(nice boost}So give him the school powers and the +3 CL but not the feats
3>spells. I think you needs to narrow down the spell list or at the very list make it much harder to learn spells outside his school
4> not sure if high arcana is to much or not, needs testing
5> as noted before he should not gain cantrips
Over all damned fine job, was not sure it could be done.
@Studpuffin - Arcane Strike is also the trigger for Witching, that's why you start with it.
Well, I kind of meant the whole thing, but whatevs. Its all good.
I'm not sure I like the name Iron Mage, it evokes too many images of either Ozzy or Robert Downey Jr. Perhaps Witcher or somesort...
The name Blade-witch came up on another thread.It would seem to fit this class well, as you have your witchings, and it has a grimmore(spellbook0 seems like a better fit to me
@Studpuffin - Arcane Strike is also the trigger for Witching, that's why you start with it.
Well, I kind of meant the whole thing, but whatevs. Its all good.
I'm not sure I like the name Iron Mage, it evokes too many images of either Ozzy or Robert Downey Jr. Perhaps Witcher or somesort...
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It seems like a lot, but as a half-caster, well. The boost isn't really a "boost," it's more like catch-up since his caster level is lower than his class level. So yeah, it's a melee type that can have a full caster level with one school of magic, which seems like too much, until you realize he'll be casting Magic Missile or Burning Hands as a 4th level Caster... at 4th level. And then only a couple times a day. A Sorcerer or Wizard would have Scorching Ray, Flaming Sphere, or something like that by then. By the time the Iron Mage does get Scorching Ray or Flaming Sphere, the Sorc/Wiz have Ice Storm, Greater Invisibility, Phantasmal Killer...
It's a nice bit of power, but IMHO, not overdone.
I don't mind the +3, I do worry over giving him 2 feats for free on top of it. At the very lest they need split say he gets the +3, then later gains spell focus for free, then after that greater spell focus. I don't like him getting em all at once, kinda front loaded
As for narrowing down the spell list, the forward compatibility thing is a GREAT point. One possible way to find a middle ground, though: say that he can only learn from Abjuration, Evocation, Necromancy and Transmutation, so that any new spells released in those schools will be accessible but he still doesn't get quite full access. Also, I wouldn't mind a caveat that says that half his spells of any given level must be from his School Focus, personally. It just makes sense to me.
I am good with this, or just having a higher DC to learn outside the school as he is focused even more then a specialist wizard, So while I can see a need not the close the list, I also see a need for flavor and balance to limit or make it harder for him to get just any old spell
I don't mind MAD, paladins and rangers have it as well. SO I do not think it is a must have, he already gains better spells and a higher caster level then a paladin anyhow
But yeah at the very lest it needs split
I agree really, but I feel they do need split. As gaining them all at once is jarring, I can't cast but now I can and am really, really good at it. I think spreading them out might make it feel more like power is growing anyhow
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I agree really, but I feel they do need split. As gaining them all at once is jarring, I can't cast but now I can and am really, really good at it. I think spreading them out might make it feel more like power is growing anyhow
that's why I think a limited list of cantrips usable a limited amount of time per day at first level is a good idea. Maybe he knows 1+int mod 0 level spells and can cast from them int mod +3 times per day(prepared if you wish). Similar to the duskblade. Limit the list of cantrips to something like Read magic, detect magic, ray of frost, disrupt undead, prestidigitation, mending, and light. If he gets channeling early he could practice it by channeling ray of frost or disrupt undead when needed and it isn't very powerful until the real spells kick in at 4th level. This lets them be the class at early power levels so the class function is there and the flavor isn't something that just pops in at 4th level.
I really like it, but I'd add some cantrips so they have something to do outside of combat. His class skills are relatively limited (as they should be!), so a little magical utility boost will make the class a lot more fun to play without being overpowering.
Cantrips are now spell-like abilities that can be used at will, so they can have a different caster level than the regular spells without it being too complicated. And I'd allow access to all schools for the cantrips.
In a relatively "normal" party, there is likely to be a full time arcanist or warrior, or even skill-monkey, who will have better skills than you do, so the only way to really have the Iron Mage shine outside of combat is through magic, especially if he coordinates with the party sorcerer or wizard and chooses cantrips they don't have access to.
I don't mind MAD, paladins and rangers have it as well. SO I do not think it is a must have, he already gains better spells and a higher caster level then a paladin anyhow
But yeah at the very lest it needs split
Paladins and rangers however do not really concern themselves with as many offensive spells. They are far more buff focused (in my experience). This class or at least some flavors of it seems to be attempting to allow a little more offense in their spells, which is more in mind with the arcane spell list in general. It should be possible for the spells that this class gets have reasonable dcs for opponents of the level they get them at. They pretty much need the +2 to the dc for this to happen. If you spread it out, the class has to wait longer for their spell list to become effective, and perhaps never will be (the saves will likely be easy at higher levels regardless of the +2 or not).
As for it being front loaded, i really dont think that is an issue. Its not like you can dip into this class and get a serious benefit, the primary benefits (witchings and wardings) are class level dependent, so I dont think we have to worry about someone just grabbing 4 levels of the class and moving on to 'break' it.
I for one will be including the class in my game, if i any of my players decides to use one I'll let you know what my results are. I may even see about putting in some opponents as well.
Kolokotroni basically explained my reasoning for giving Greater Spell Focus up front. An iron mage has less reason to pump Int than a paladin has to pump Cha; starting values will likely be in the 10 to 14 range, rising to 18 or 20 by the end. At fourth level, a full caster is threatening DC 17 saves without spell focus; the iron mage is probably DC 15 at best (with one single spell per day). He can make a good show of it in a pinch, but the wizard has no cause for envy... and still has the option to take those feats for extra punch, while the iron mage is stuck with what he's got.
I think I want to rework some of the school features just a bit. The abjurer might be just a hair too good at his job, stacking the +2/rank warding AC with the -2/rank to-hit debuff for what ultimately amounts to +11 AC over a tricked-out fighter. He also has no low-level protection against magic, which seems inappropriate; I'll probably replace the 3rd level power with an energy absorption/resistance field. I'm generally happy with the other schools, though changing the abjurer may require that other things get shuffled around (there are only so many modes of defense, and I want to keep them all distinct).
Tempted to give the Greater Spell Focus bonus to school feature save DC's, because they're all Int-based and as mentioned that's not going to be a high attribute. Not sure if it's necessary overall. Eyebite might also be problematic, I missed the final line of the spell where it's a swift action to target each round... bad interaction with Arcane Strike (especially with the save DC issue). I'll probably just assert that it's free instead of swift.
Third draft here. Aside from fixing typos and suchlike:
- Added prestidigitation at 1st level. Every spell-like ability in the class now requires components and has spell failure in heavy armor.
- Witching now starts at 1st level, increases at 5/10/15/20, mirroring the Arcane Strike progression of a full-caster class.
- Warding starts at 2nd level, increases every 3 levels thereafter, capping at 7 ranks. (This means that at level 20, the iron mage should have +1 AC over a non-smiting paladin, or 1 less than the paladin but DR 7/- in the case of the necromancer.) Warding is now rounds-per-day, equal to barbarian rage.
- All school-derived features gain the School Focus benefit of full caster level and +2 save DCs. The 7th-level school powers can be used once per 4 levels, and the 11th-level SLA's get their second usage at 18th.
- Low Arcana now follows a 3-level cycle: 6, 9, 12, 15.
- The 15th level school powers have been retooled slightly and are now called Greater Warding, gained at level 13. They are active only when warding is.
Abjuration:
- Witching now reduces attacks, CMB, and offensive save DCs.
- Warding is 1/rank deflection.
- 3rd-level power is an energy resistance field.
Evocation:
- Warding is a shield bonus, 2 + 1/rank, so it has the same net effect as other wardings. For fun, it blocks magic missiles.
Necromancy:
- Witching now reduces AC, CMD and saving throws.
Transmutation:
- Greater Witching now slows instead of stripping armor for everyone else.
- Warding no longer grants a bonus to reflex saves.
- Greater Warding now prevents flanking.