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Here's a PrC I'm woking on for Golarian. It's an early draft, let me know what you think.
Initiate of the Black Hand
The Initiates of the Black Hand belong to an order of monks that seek to create the perfect fusion of man and firearm. The Order of the Black Hand was named after the black stains commonly possessed by those who craft gunpowder. Founded in the technological city state of Alkenstar the Order regards firearms as more than just a weapon, but a way of life. Believing that experience is the best teacher Initiates are encouraged to travel the world to seek new challenges.
Aware of the scorn placed upon their choice of weaponry, Initiates engage in an ongoing crusade to prove the truth that they adhere to; to show the rest of the world through their deeds that the firearm is the pinnacle of weaponry. Most initiates are intensely loyal to Alkenstar, and watch for any illegal or improper usage of firearms as part of their crusade.
To join the order prospective members need to locate an Initiate willing to train them and to swear an oath never to use their skills against Alkenstar. Violating that oath will bring down the wrath of the order; all members are instructed to hinder or harm oath-breakers in any way possible. Otherwise, Initiates rarely fight each other. If left with no choice, combat is rarely to the death.
Alignment: An Initiate of the Black Hand must be lawful.
Hit Die: d8
Requirements
To qualify to become an Initiate of the Black Hand characters must fulfill all the following criteria.
Base Attack Bonus: +4.
Skills: Craft: Firearms 2 ranks, Acrobatics 5 ranks.
Feats: Gunslinger, Exotic Weapon Proficiency: Firearms, Weapon Focus: Firearms.
Special: Must possess the Flurry of Blows ability.
Class Skills
The Initiate’s of the Black Hand class skills are Acrobatics (Dex), Climb (Str), Craft (Int), Escape Artist (Dex), Intimidate (Cha), Knowledge (history) (Int), Perception (Wis), Perform (Cha), Ride (Dex), Sense Motive (Wis), Stealth (Dex), and Swim (Str).
Skill Ranks at Each Level: 4 + Int modifier.
Initiate of the Black Hand
1st - BAB +0, Fort +2, Ref +2, Will +2 - Precision Shooting, Monk Abilities
2nd - BAB +1, Fort +3, Ref +3, Will +3 - One with the Gun, Expert Handling
3rd - BAB +2, Fort +3, Ref +3, Will +3 - Speed Loader, Spatial Awareness
4th - BAB +3, Fort +4, Ref +4, Will +4 - Both Barrels
5th - BAB +3, Fort +4, Ref +4, Will +4 - Firearms Master
Class Features
All of the following are class features of the Initiate of the Black Hand prestige class.
Weapon and Armor Proficiency: Initiate’s of the Black Hand gain no proficiency with any weapon or armor.
Precision Shooting (Ex): An Initiate of the Black Hand’s aim with firearms becomes almost supernaturally precise. This has two effects; first she gains the equivalent of the Precise Shot feat except that it only applies to firearms. Second she gains the ability to strike precisely with firearms, adding her Initiate of the Black Hand level to her damage roll against foes within 30 feet. An Initiate of the Black Hand precise strike only works against living creatures with discernible anatomies. Any creature that is immune to critical hits is also immune to a precise strike and any item or ability that protects a creature from critical hits also protects a creature from a precise strike.
Monk Abilities: The Initiate of the Black Hand levels stack with Monk levels to determine AC, Flurry of Blow bonus, and Ki Pool levels and abilities. Firearms become a special weapon that can be used with Flurry of Blows and the Ki Strike ability.
One with the Gun (Ex): At 2nd level, an Initiate of the Black Hand adds 1d6 to her unarmed damage when attacking while holding a firearm. If unable to wield a firearm the damage is not applied. Any defensive effects that apply to melee weapons apply to the Initiate and the firearm separately (a Black Puddings acid ability damages the character and the firearm equally).
Expert Handling (Ex): At 2rd level, an Initiate of the Black Hand reduces her chance of a misfire by one (minimum 0). The chance is reduced by an additional 1 at 4th level.
Speed Loader (Ex): Starting at 3rd level, Initiates gain the equivalent of the Rapid Reload feat except that it applies to firearms rather than crossbows. Apply the feat to a second firearm at level 5.
Spatial Awareness (Ex): At 3nd level, Black Hand training teaches the Initiate the optimal stance to avoid potential ranged attacks. When the Initiate uses Flurry of Blows they gain 20% concealment for 1 round against ranged attacks. The concealment climbs to 50% at 5th level.
Both Barrels (Ex): At 4th level, an Initiate of the Black Hand is able to fire two weapons as a standard action. The Initiate of the Black Hand takes a –2 penalty on her attack roll. If the attack hits, both shots hit. Apply precision-based damage (such as sneak attack, or Precision Shooting) and critical hit damage only once for this attack. Damage bonuses from other sources, such as the Deadly Aim feat, or the Rangers hated foe ability, apply to each shot. Damage reduction and resistances apply separately to each shot. Exploding damage dice, if used, apply to both shots as well.
Firearms Master (Ex): By 5th level an Initiates can group multiple shots together so quickly and accurately that it feels like a single attack. When flurrying or using the Both Barrels ability all firearm damage is totaled before it is applied against DR. For example, if an Initiate strikes a creature with DR 10 for 8, 10 and 12 damage, the creature takes 20 damage (8+10+12-10) rather than the 2 it would normally take.
I didn't want to be the first person to post that...
I didn't want to be the first person to post that...
I will admit that Equilibrium was a inspiration but I came up with the idea of combining flurry of blows and other monk abilities with guns before I saw the movie (shortly after 3.0 came out actually).
Though the miss chance was a pretty straight yoink.
Now that that point has been brought up can we move past, or is it too distracting.
Be careful, Cainus, you're treading on my dreams.
Also this is very similiar to the RIFTS: China 2 class of "Gun Master".
Be careful, Cainus, you're treading on my dreams.
Also this is very similiar to the RIFTS: China 2 class of "Gun Master".
*SIGH* I was never able to find any of the RIFTS: China books. People in my area stopped getting them (I bought up all the stock I could find for super cheap).
At certain levels, the Gun Master was able to use their Chi to actually create ammunition inside their guns. They were automatically proficient with every gun there was. If a gun from a planet 2,000 years ahead of RIFTS Earth was ported through, a Gun Master could figure it out as soon as they picked it up.
Basically it was an Equilibrium & John Woo based upgrade to the Psi-Slinger.
I may consider using this prestige class in an upcoming victorian era game. Gotta talk to the dm about it, but seems like it would be fun.
Just a question which source are you using for pathfinder rules for firearms?
I may consider using this prestige class in an upcoming victorian era game. Gotta talk to the dm about it, but seems like it would be fun.
Just a question which source are you using for pathfinder rules for firearms?
The Pathfinder Chronicles Campaign Guide. It's a world specific PrC.
The Pathfinder Chronicles Campaign Guide. It's a world specific PrC.I may consider using this prestige class in an upcoming victorian era game. Gotta talk to the dm about it, but seems like it would be fun.
Just a question which source are you using for pathfinder rules for firearms?
That is what I thought, and I see that it is world specific but assuming you dont object I will see about trying to make it work for the game my friend is intending to run. Shouldnt be overly complicated adjusting the fluff.
That is what I thought, and I see that it is world specific but assuming you dont object I will see about trying to make it work for the game my friend is intending to run. Shouldnt be overly complicated adjusting the fluff.The Pathfinder Chronicles Campaign Guide. It's a world specific PrC.I may consider using this prestige class in an upcoming victorian era game. Gotta talk to the dm about it, but seems like it would be fun.
Just a question which source are you using for pathfinder rules for firearms?
Feele free to using it for whatever, that's one of the reasons I posted it. It was turned down by the Wayfinder so this is the next best way to expose it.
These guys were the (often unwitting) dupes of a big bad who was attempting to destroy all magic in the world making Alkenstar (and himself really) the major power in the world.
I had a feeling when I saw this that it had to be Alkenstar specific, so that caused me to take a peek.
Not bad; it's an intriguing idea. I'm glad you kept the PrC short to five levels. The only thing that may be gnawing at me is that I think that some of the skills may be out of place or excessive. Otherwise, I like the concept. I'd love to see a character drawing of this based on your concept.
I had a feeling when I saw this that it had to be Alkenstar specific, so that caused me to take a peek.
Not bad; it's an intriguing idea. I'm glad you kept the PrC short to five levels. The only thing that may be gnawing at me is that I think that some of the skills may be out of place or excessive. Otherwise, I like the concept. I'd love to see a character drawing of this based on your concept.
Which skills would you pull? Off the top I could see Perform, Ride, and Swim.
The list was pretty much the monk's skill list.
Which skills would you pull? Off the top I could see Perform, Ride, and Swim.
The list was pretty much the monk's skill list.
I'd probably dump Ride and Swim, but I'd keep Perform. He could have a dance style that's called a gun kata, so to speak.
Don't forget to add in the bonuses and penalties for their prozium dependency.
Don't forget to add in the bonuses and penalties for their prozium dependency.
That's funny. But we dealt with the whole Equilibrium thing.
We're moving on.
Or state what parts are two Equilibriumy and possible solutions, or that they should be yanked and replaced with something else.
Or really good Equilibrium jokes.
Just out of curiosity, is it your intention that this class allow a full flurry with a pair of pistols after the 3rd level and speed loader? Because you would have to include a provision of being able to reload despite having a weapon in both hands. Or is it your intention that only one firearm be used in the flurry? I am just asking as for me the immediate image was someone flurrying with a pair of pistols (which with rapid reload would be reloaded as a free action since its a move to start) and allowing a full flurry with 2 firearms, but technically you cant reload if you have a weapon in each hand.
Is it your intention that they should be able to use the guns as striking weapons in melee?
Something that might be interesting to see would be some sort of additional AC bonus... ala shield bonus to ac from how they learn to deflect blows using the guns.
Is it your intention that they should be able to use the guns as striking weapons in melee?
Something that might be interesting to see would be some sort of additional AC bonus... ala shield bonus to ac from how they learn to deflect blows using the guns.
I believe the guns meant to be fired, not used in melee, the 'one with gun' ability represents the firearms adding a little extra damage to normal unarmed attacks but i dont think they are supposed to be used purely as melee weapons.
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Looks good; just two minor quibbles with making it fit with Pathfinder style:
- Prestige Classes uses a slightly different progression for saves - All of your should go up +1/+1/+2/+2/+3 I think this is to avoid massive bonuses from stacking different PRCs for a level or two.
- That Skill list is very big. You need to have Monk to get into this class, and since you've copied the skills list verbatum, you probably won't get any benefit from the skills*. I'd reduce the list to about 4-5 and possibnly add Diplomacy to cover that bit in your fluff about an ongoing crusade to enlighten the world to the awesome of guns.
* Maybe if you hadn't taken a skill at an earlier level
Just out of curiosity, is it your intention that this class allow a full flurry with a pair of pistols after the 3rd level and speed loader? Because you would have to include a provision of being able to reload despite having a weapon in both hands. Or is it your intention that only one firearm be used in the flurry? I am just asking as for me the immediate image was someone flurrying with a pair of pistols (which with rapid reload would be reloaded as a free action since its a move to start) and allowing a full flurry with 2 firearms, but technically you cant reload if you have a weapon in each hand.
I have the same image.
If they have two revolvers (from Pathfinder World Book) they can shoot with two weapons for ten shots.
If they have quick draw and a lot of loaded pistols they can also do a lot of two pistol shooting.
But, with the power as written it does end up, more often than not, being one pistol being reloaded a lot. At least after the initial supply of loaded weapons ones round.
The other reloading mechanism (because I feel one is necessary) I worked with was you could either reload a number of weapons equal to your class level, as a move action (and I waffled between standard and full as well) or reload one shot as a free action.
So you'd shoot/flurry until your loaded weapons are empty and then spend a round or two reloading.
What do people think of that? I really like the two weapon shooting idea myself.
I believe the guns meant to be fired, not used in melee, the 'one with gun' ability represents the firearms adding a little extra damage to normal unarmed attacks but i dont think they are supposed to be used purely as melee weapons.Is it your intention that they should be able to use the guns as striking weapons in melee?
Something that might be interesting to see would be some sort of additional AC bonus... ala shield bonus to ac from how they learn to deflect blows using the guns.
Exactly, it's like the extra damage you do when punching someone while holding a roll of quarters.
Looks good; just two minor quibbles with making it fit with Pathfinder style:
- Prestige Classes uses a slightly different progression for saves - All of your should go up +1/+1/+2/+2/+3 I think this is to avoid massive bonuses from stacking different PRCs for a level or two.
- That Skill list is very big. You need to have Monk to get into this class, and since you've copied the skills list verbatum, you probably won't get any benefit from the skills*. I'd reduce the list to about 4-5 and possibnly add Diplomacy to cover that bit in your fluff about an ongoing crusade to enlighten the world to the awesome of guns.
* Maybe if you hadn't taken a skill at an earlier level
Two very good points. I just didn't notice the save progression for PrC's. It's a good rule...
So, is it too much to have it:
Fort +1, Ref +1, Will +1
Fort +1, Ref +1, Will +1
Fort +2, Ref +2, Will +2
Fort +2, Ref +2, Will +2
Fort +3, Ref +3, Will +3
As for the skills here's a revised list:
Acrobatics (Dex), Craft (Firearms) (Int), Diplomacy (Cha), Perception (Wis), Sense Motive (Wis), Stealth (Dex)
Thoughts?
Looks good; just two minor quibbles with making it fit with Pathfinder style:
- Prestige Classes uses a slightly different progression for saves - All of your should go up +1/+1/+2/+2/+3 I think this is to avoid massive bonuses from stacking different PRCs for a level or two.
- That Skill list is very big. You need to have Monk to get into this class, and since you've copied the skills list verbatum, you probably won't get any benefit from the skills*. I'd reduce the list to about 4-5 and possibnly add Diplomacy to cover that bit in your fluff about an ongoing crusade to enlighten the world to the awesome of guns.
* Maybe if you hadn't taken a skill at an earlier level
Two very good points. I just didn't notice the save progression for PrC's. It's a good rule...
So, is it too much to have it:
Fort +1, Ref +1, Will +1
Fort +1, Ref +1, Will +1
Fort +2, Ref +2, Will +2
Fort +2, Ref +2, Will +2
Fort +3, Ref +3, Will +3As for the skills here's a revised list:
Acrobatics (Dex), Craft (Firearms) (Int), Diplomacy (Cha), Perception (Wis), Sense Motive (Wis), Stealth (Dex)
Thoughts?
I'd actually take away the good Fort save I think. There's nothing in the class that shows the character continuing to build up physical resistances. It's all about being quick and having mental focus. So I'd downgrade the Fort save to +0, +1, +1, +1, +2.
Just out of curiosity, is it your intention that this class allow a full flurry with a pair of pistols after the 3rd level and speed loader? Because you would have to include a provision of being able to reload despite having a weapon in both hands. Or is it your intention that only one firearm be used in the flurry? I am just asking as for me the immediate image was someone flurrying with a pair of pistols (which with rapid reload would be reloaded as a free action since its a move to start) and allowing a full flurry with 2 firearms, but technically you cant reload if you have a weapon in each hand.I have the same image.
If they have two revolvers (from Pathfinder World Book) they can shoot with two weapons for ten shots.
If they have quick draw and a lot of loaded pistols they can also do a lot of two pistol shooting.
But, with the power as written it does end up, more often than not, being one pistol being reloaded a lot. At least after the initial supply of loaded weapons ones round.
The other reloading mechanism (because I feel one is necessary) I worked with was you could either reload a number of weapons equal to your class level, as a move action (and I waffled between standard and full as well) or reload one shot as a free action.
So you'd shoot/flurry until your loaded weapons are empty and then spend a round or two reloading.
What do people think of that? I really like the two weapon shooting idea myself.
I would rather see an exception to the reloading rule something like:
Deft Hands:
An initiate of the black hand is capable of manipulating his guns better then most. He is able to reload a firearm without having a free hand. Maybe at 4th level?
When I was shopping on DriveThruSTuff.Com yesterday for on-sale PDFs, I happen to come across this one that made me think about this thread. Might be worth checking out to get ideas for the OP's build.
I'd actually take away the good Fort save I think. There's nothing in the class that shows the character continuing to build up physical resistances. It's all about being quick and having mental focus. So I'd downgrade the Fort save to +0, +1, +1, +1, +2.
Yup, that was my other option if I was going to drop one. I'll have to repost this thing once I get through all these changes.
I would rather see an exception to the reloading rule something like:Deft Hands:
An initiate of the black hand is capable of manipulating his guns better then most. He is able to reload a firearm without having a free hand. Maybe at 4th level?
Or, is able to reload a firearm while holding a firearm in a free hand...
Exactly, it's like the extra damage you do when punching someone while holding a roll of quarters.I believe the guns meant to be fired, not used in melee, the 'one with gun' ability represents the firearms adding a little extra damage to normal unarmed attacks but i dont think they are supposed to be used purely as melee weapons.Is it your intention that they should be able to use the guns as striking weapons in melee?
Something that might be interesting to see would be some sort of additional AC bonus... ala shield bonus to ac from how they learn to deflect blows using the guns.
Very good. I didn't expect they should be purely melee weapons. I was just clarifying for myself how you envisioned the ability. Thanks.
Or, is able to reload a firearm while holding a firearm in a free hand...
I would rather see an exception to the reloading rule something like:Deft Hands:
An initiate of the black hand is capable of manipulating his guns better then most. He is able to reload a firearm without having a free hand. Maybe at 4th level?
Maybe:
Deft Hands: An Intiates guns are an extention of himself. At 4th level an Initiate of the Black Hand may reload a firearm while holding a firearm in both hands.
Or, is able to reload a firearm while holding a firearm in a free hand...
I would rather see an exception to the reloading rule something like:Deft Hands:
An initiate of the black hand is capable of manipulating his guns better then most. He is able to reload a firearm without having a free hand. Maybe at 4th level?Maybe:
Deft Hands: An Intiates guns are an extention of himself. At 4th level an Initiate of the Black Hand may reload a firearm while holding a firearm in both hands.
If he's holding the firearm with both hands, what is he reloading with? I think "a firearm in each hand" would be better.
These are metallic cartridge firearms?
When I first read this I was thinking you were going to base it off the Equilibrium movie.
When I first read this I was thinking you were going to base it off the Equilibrium movie.
You clean, we'll sweep.
Or, is able to reload a firearm while holding a firearm in a free hand...
I would rather see an exception to the reloading rule something like:Deft Hands:
An initiate of the black hand is capable of manipulating his guns better then most. He is able to reload a firearm without having a free hand. Maybe at 4th level?Maybe:
Deft Hands: An Intiates guns are an extention of himself. At 4th level an Initiate of the Black Hand may reload a firearm while holding a firearm in both hands.
If he's holding the firearm with both hands, what is he reloading with? I think "a firearm in each hand" would be better.
These are metallic cartridge firearms?
they are precussion cap not metallic cartridge, though i imagine they are using paper cartridges.
I would rather see an exception to the reloading rule something like:Deft Hands:
An initiate of the black hand is capable of manipulating his guns better then most. He is able to reload a firearm without having a free hand. Maybe at 4th level?
Here's the thing, the more I think about it what does this really add except for the fluff of shooting with two guns? They could already get all their attacks a round with the previous mechanic so it's not adding anything mechanical to the PrC.
Am I missing something?
I would rather see an exception to the reloading rule something like:Deft Hands:
An initiate of the black hand is capable of manipulating his guns better then most. He is able to reload a firearm without having a free hand. Maybe at 4th level?Here's the thing, the more I think about it what does this really add except for the fluff of shooting with two guns? They could already get all their attacks a round with the previous mechanic so it's not adding anything mechanical to the PrC.
Am I missing something?
I guess it depends on if they are using a pair of revolvers or not. In the case of two single shot "pistols" you'd need some sort of different reload mechanic or you would not be able to reload two pistols fast enough with both hands occupied to get the full benefit. I think this may be what they are talking about.
Of course... you get your full round of attacks only once with a pair of revolvers, then you would run into the same problem of reloading two revolvers with your hands full.
I guess it depends on if they are using a pair of revolvers or not. In the case of two single shot "pistols" you'd need some sort of different reload mechanic or you would not be able to reload two pistols fast enough with both hands occupied to get the full benefit. I think this may be what they are talking about.
Of course... you get your full round of attacks only once with a pair of revolvers, then you would run into the same problem of reloading two revolvers with your hands full.
What I'm saying is that allowing them to reload while holding a gun doesn't do much. They can already get all their attacks every round just be rapidly reloading one weapon. Deft Hands would just allow them the ability to have the cool fluff of fighting with two weapons without any penalty.
they are precussion cap not metallic cartridge, though i imagine they are using paper cartridges.Or, is able to reload a firearm while holding a firearm in a free hand...
I would rather see an exception to the reloading rule something like:Deft Hands:
An initiate of the black hand is capable of manipulating his guns better then most. He is able to reload a firearm without having a free hand. Maybe at 4th level?Maybe:
Deft Hands: An Intiates guns are an extention of himself. At 4th level an Initiate of the Black Hand may reload a firearm while holding a firearm in both hands.
If he's holding the firearm with both hands, what is he reloading with? I think "a firearm in each hand" would be better.
These are metallic cartridge firearms?
Well, that'll kill any quick reloading ability. I love my cap and ball revolver (Navy Arms .44 Colt Dragoon 3rd Model) but to reload it, you need to replace the caps on the nipples, then turn the revolver upright and loading all the chambers, including ramming the ball snug on the powder. That simply cannot be done without a free hand. Now, in the SAA or the S&W Scofield, I could handwave dropping the spent cartridges out the loading gate or via the break action and sliding live rounds into the chamber using just a free finger or two on the hand holding the gun, but that just won't work in a cap and ball revolver. You might as well just say they magically create new ammunition in the cylinder.
I watching Equilibrium while I write this.
No comments.
Anyway, is it better to have the reload ability something like:
reload a number of shots equal to your class level (or 2x class level) as a move/standard/full action or reload one weapon as a swift action,
instead of the rapid reload?
Characters would need quick draw, a couple of pistols, and a revolver or two to get multiple rounds of sustained fire but they'd probably be using two weapons to do it rather than just speed loading one weapon over and over each round.
The deft hands idea just allows them to speed load two weapons over and over each round, it doesn't provide a concrete advantage (though it is cool looking).
You could just say that he can treat a hand holding a firearm as if it were a free hand for the purpose of reloading weapons.