Bestiary II Wish List


Product Discussion

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I dunno if there is a similar thread, but here's the first if not.

I've heard word of Paizo doing a Bestiary II and, as far off as that is, I'd like to start a "Wish List" nice and early.

So, here're some things I'd like to see in Bestiary II:

---More Giants
---More Fey
---New Linnorms
---New Inevitables
---New Outsiders (azati, agathion, axiomites, angels, etc.)

But one set of creatures I'd like to see more of, and I think it'd be an interesting set of new dragons for Pathfinder, are new Arcane Dragons from Dragon Magazine #343. (or something similar, you guys can still use them right, or do your own version?) The Tome and Hex Dragons were in that, and it looked as if it was planned to be extended but the sudden end of Dragon's publication prevented that, it seems.

Liberty's Edge

My wish list woould include more "Plane-touched" beside Aasimar, Gensai, and Tiefling. Specifically Law, Chaos and Energy (both Positive and Negative) plane touched type races.

Dark Archive

I'd like to see more Pathfinder-specific races, such as the Denizens of Leng or Qlippoths.


I'd like to see the rest of the monsters that got left out. Gricks for instance. I think anything that was in the Core monster book for 3.5 should have priority over "newbies."

Example: the rest of the sphinxes.


Kevida wrote:
My wish list woould include more "Plane-touched" beside Aasimar, Gensai, and Tiefling. Specifically Law, Chaos and Energy (both Positive and Negative) plane touched type races.

I'd like to see more of those, in fact, I'd love to see a "Half-Anarchic" and "Half-Axiomatic" template, something WotC never got around to do.


I would like to see more monsters from the Cthulhu Mythos such as the shoggoth (now in the bestiary). I really like that kind of monsters.

Alien monsters can be a lot of fun. (not alien as in space invaders however)

A temptation devil ("just sign on the dotted line here and you will be rich for as long as you live")


Cthugha wrote:

I would like to see more monsters from the Cthulhu Mythos such as the shoggoth (now in the bestiary). I really like that kind of monsters.

Alien monsters can be a lot of fun. (not alien as in space invaders however)

A temptation devil ("just sign on the dotted line here and you will be rich for as long as you live")

They came out with a temptation devil type, the Phistopheles, it's from one of the Pathfinder modules. There's also the Brachina from FC2.


More Hags, Linnorms and Giants would be cool

Bring back the Stun Jelly :)

Have a soft spot for Norkers too...


new ousiders

creatures from rarely used mythologies (divs, nephilim, topeth are a great start)

more plants

fey (e.g. atomie, various sidhe/sith, coltpixy, sylph, leshy, korred, killmoulis, pech, pooka, vila, shadovig ...)


At the risk of sounding like I'm giving a shameless plug; the current Pathfinder bestiary is the best monster book, bar none, that I have seen since the 1st edition d&d monster books.
Though I would like to see another bestiary, I for one, am not desirous to see endless streams of new, stupid monsters enter the game. WoTC made a common practice of that during 3.5's count 'em FIVE monster books. If Paizo sticks to the model that the current bestiary has pioneered, then they'll have a great product on their hands.
It is my hope that any future monster book will contain the longstanding monsters from the d&d game that didn't make it into the first bestiary (which spactactularly had a good percentage of them).


To agree with Black Dow and Razz, More Linorms! Also, I'd hope to see some of the types of monsters featured in the Age of Worms and Savage Tide adventure paths (examples: Koprus, and the various Kyuss-type critters-assuming they're not copyrighted)...

Paizo Employee Creative Director

Allen Stewart wrote:

At the risk of sounding like I'm giving a shameless plug; the current Pathfinder bestiary is the best monster book, bar none, that I have seen since the 1st edition d&d monster books.

Though I would like to see another bestiary, I for one, am not desirous to see endless streams of new, stupid monsters enter the game. WoTC made a common practice of that during 3.5's count 'em FIVE monster books. If Paizo sticks to the model that the current bestiary has pioneered, then they'll have a great product on their hands.
It is my hope that any future monster book will contain the longstanding monsters from the d&d game that didn't make it into the first bestiary (which spactactularly had a good percentage of them).

The tentative plans for now ARE To do a monster book each year. At least until they stop selling. But that said, all of Paizo's Bestiaries are going to follow a similar design philosophy to the bestairies we include in the back of every Pathfinder Adventure Path volume. That is... we'll be relying VERY heavilly on real world resources like mythology, cryptozoology, legend, and the public domain. Humanity's been creating monsters for many thousands of years, after all, and that's enough to keep our monster books going for a good long time.

Contributor

Razz wrote:


---More Giants
---More Fey
---New Linnorms
---New Inevitables
---New Outsiders (azati, agathion, axiomites, angels, etc.)
[[---More Dragons]]

The bad news first: The creature list for Bestiary II is already 98% solidified and the majority of design work is already done. So we know what we've got, but since development hasn't even started, it's really too early to talk about any in any concrete terms.

The good news: with one exception (and even less if you squint your eyes) ever one of your wises are granted.

Feel free to start throwing out ideas for #3, though, those beasties are going to be nipping at our heels in no time!


Black Dow wrote:

More Hags, Linnorms and Giants would be cool

Yes, please

Paizo Employee Creative Director

More dinosaurs!

RPG Superstar 2010 Top 32

Since Bestiary II already has a table of contents...

THEMED MONSTER BOOKS. The TSR tradition of "Here's a pile of random monsters, enjoy" does zilch for me. Theme them on game-mechanical concerns or setting concerns or tie them together with a loose story or a faction or home plane or environment or WHATEVER.

I just want to be able to look at the spine of the book and say, "Oh, Bestiary of Hell is probably the book where I'd find Xerfylstyxes because they live in Hell" rather than "Wait, did I read that in MM2 or MM4?"


Well, shoot. I just had a post eaten by the Messageboard Monster.

The short version:

The Piasa (pie-a-saw) might make an interesting Bestiary critter. I've never seen stats for it anywhere and it follows along with Paizo's interest in using legendary creatures.

Just a thought.


Robots.


this three: titans, phoenix and powerful fey.

Contributor

leandro redondo wrote:
phoenix

Might want to check your bestiary again for this one.


leandro redondo wrote:
this three: titans, phoenix and powerful fey.

The Phoenix is in Bestiary I!

EDIT: Schneider Ninja'd!

Shadow Lodge

-1 for Robots.

More Outsiders, hopefully along the Good and Evil line, I've never carred much for Lawful and Chaotic Outsiders, but that is just me.

Most importantly, Death Knight, and undead along those lines. Boss Undead. Variant Mummies, Vampires, and Liches (not with class levels).

few and elementals would be cool, particularly not neutral ones.


Beckett wrote:

-1 for Robots.

More Outsiders, hopefully along the Good and Evil line, I've never carred much for Lawful and Chaotic Outsiders, but that is just me.

Most importantly, Death Knight, and undead along those lines. Boss Undead. Variant Mummies, Vampires, and Liches (not with class levels).

few and elementals would be cool, particularly not neutral ones.

Check out the Pathfinder #26 Bestiary for the grave-knight! One of the best takes on a death knight going!


Razz wrote:

I dunno if there is a similar thread, but here's the first if not.

I've heard word of Paizo doing a Bestiary II and, as far off as that is, I'd like to start a "Wish List" nice and early.

So, here're some things I'd like to see in Bestiary II:

---More Giants
---More Fey
---New Linnorms
---New Inevitables
---New Outsiders (azati, agathion, axiomites, angels, etc.)

But one set of creatures I'd like to see more of, and I think it'd be an interesting set of new dragons for Pathfinder, are new Arcane Dragons from Dragon Magazine #343. (or something similar, you guys can still use them right, or do your own version?) The Tome and Hex Dragons were in that, and it looked as if it was planned to be extended but the sudden end of Dragon's publication prevented that, it seems.

I have a request for stuff NOT to show up. Please do not create Bestiary entries that are just existing monsters with class levels, like a lot of MM IV and V were...

The Exchange

A Man In Black wrote:

Since Bestiary II already has a table of contents...

THEMED MONSTER BOOKS. The TSR tradition of "Here's a pile of random monsters, enjoy" does zilch for me. Theme them on game-mechanical concerns or setting concerns or tie them together with a loose story or a faction or home plane or environment or WHATEVER.

I just want to be able to look at the spine of the book and say, "Oh, Bestiary of Hell is probably the book where I'd find Xerfylstyxes because they live in Hell" rather than "Wait, did I read that in MM2 or MM4?"

A themed monster book would be ideal. Definitely something I'd buy and use.

Shadow Lodge

Presto2112 wrote:
Please do not create Bestiary entries that are just existing monsters with class levels, like a lot of MM IV and V were...

+1

+1
+1

Please DO NOT DO THIS.

A few (very few) can be interesting, if they show an option you wouldnt think of that works, but only a very few.

Contributor

I have to agree with this, though I did like the 3.5 MM that had the basic versions of the monsters and then some of them had beefed up versions alongside them.

Silver Crusade

Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

This would be a pretty cool creature (and the encounters write themselves!)

The Psoglav


Presto2112 wrote:


I have a request for stuff NOT to show up. Please do not create Bestiary entries that are just existing monsters with class levels, like a lot of MM IV and V were...

+1

However, I would be please to have acces to them as web enhancemant sample encounters or adventure modules NPCs. I like the Monsters with clas levels. They do gave me a few campaing ideas, but having a monster manual with old monster with class levels made me feel conned.

I haved no problem with new version of old monsters like Mind Flayers of Thoon or the Dragon of Xorvinthal (A.K.A. as Dragon of the Great Game).

Yawar


Dire Corbies.

'Nuff said.


James Jacobs wrote:
More dinosaurs!

Sure


DM_aka_Dudemeister wrote:

This would be a pretty cool creature (and the encounters write themselves!)

The Psoglav

Never heard of it, but the one eye horse legged dude could be interesting

Liberty's Edge

Beckett wrote:
Presto2112 wrote:
Please do not create Bestiary entries that are just existing monsters with class levels, like a lot of MM IV and V were...

+1

+1
+1

Please DO NOT DO THIS.

A few (very few) can be interesting, if they show an option you wouldnt think of that works, but only a very few.

+3 vorpal. Its settled.


Beckett wrote:

-1 for Robots.

More Outsiders, hopefully along the Good and Evil line, I've never carred much for Lawful and Chaotic Outsiders, but that is just me.

Most importantly, Death Knight, and undead along those lines. Boss Undead. Variant Mummies, Vampires, and Liches (not with class levels).

few and elementals would be cool, particularly not neutral ones.

Vampires and liches are templates, they always have class levels in some class. (Unless the template is applied to a monster with racial hitdice.)

I love the way vampire spawn are handled in the PF Bestiary. Instead of wasting a page on vampire spawn stats, it says "apply these changes to a wight." I ran a PFRPG encounter with a vampire spawn and a couple wights this past weekend.

Grave Knight is the Pathfinder equivalent of the Death Knight. Death Knight's name is owned WotC IP, I think. (But you really can't copyright the concept of a skeletal knight.)

I'm honestly not sure what I'd like to see in Bestiary II. Probably more templates. I like templated monsters. But then I have Green Ronin's Advanced Bestiary, so do I really need any more templates?

I love undead, so more undead is a good thing.

I'd also like to see more oni, more angels, more divs, more azata, and daemons. (The ogre mage is lonely as the only oni in Pathfinder Bestiary.)

Sovereign Court

Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

Is the Cave Fisher considered Open Content?


It's in the Bestiary.

Paizo Employee Creative Director

Presto2112 wrote:
I have a request for stuff NOT to show up. Please do not create Bestiary entries that are just existing monsters with class levels, like a lot of MM IV and V were...

A book of creatures with class levels, or simply a book of NPC humanoids with class levels, is a really good idea. We'll have a LOT of this stuff in the Gamemastery Guide and in the NPC guide. This type of content is NOT appropriate for a Bestairy, and it won't be showing up in our monster books. The closest you'll see it come will be cases like goblins and orcs (creatures without racial HD who HAVE to have a level in a class... and in these cases we'll never have more than one level on that creature) and templates (like the lich, ghost, and vampire, in which case we'll use the class that most closely fits the standard archetype of the monster template in question).

Paizo Employee Creative Director

Darrin Drader wrote:
I have to agree with this, though I did like the 3.5 MM that had the basic versions of the monsters and then some of them had beefed up versions alongside them.

We won't be doing that either; I'd rather fill higher CR slots with new monsters.

Folks looking for monsters with class levels, actually, need look no further than our modules and adventure paths. Using those as sources for stat blocks for your home games is a GREAT way to get use out of a module or adventure you don't intend on running, and it's an often-overlooked aspect and value of adventures.


James Jacobs wrote:
That is... we'll be relying VERY heavilly on real world resources like mythology, cryptozoology, legend, and the public domain.

Which is awesome. I even ordered my own “encyclopaedia on mythological creatures” for working on my own monsters. I especially liked the “non western mythology” type of creatures. (Persian, Indian) but would also love to see monsters inspired by Slavic mythology.

A man in black wrote:
THEMED MONSTER BOOKS. The TSR tradition of "Here's a pile of random monsters, enjoy" does zilch for me. Theme them on game-mechanical concerns or setting concerns or tie them together with a loose story or a faction or home plane or environment or WHATEVER.

Fully supported idea. Oh and the first theme should be “Fey”. You’ve got to love them, and to be fair there is loads of inspiration to be gained from mythology.


I think Mega-Fauna are much more interesting than Dinosaurs.

Propleopus oscillans, the Carnivorous Kangaroo. Imagine a mob of kangaroos hunting like Velocoraptors, able to split you from earhole to crotch by rocking up on its tail and double raking you with the razor sharp toes, or a spring attack with both legs crashing down on you from 6 feet in the air and shredding you. (the real oscillans was very small and ate lizards but hey why let that get in the way of a good monster).

Diprotodon optatum was the largest species of diprotodontid. Approximately three metres long, two metres high at the shoulder and weighing up to two tonnes, it resembled a giant wombat. It is the largest marsupial currently known.

Hoplitomeryx a five-horned deer with its sabrelike ('moschid' type) upper canines

The Aurochs was far larger than most modern domestic cattle, being approximately 2 metres (6.6 ft) at the shoulder and weighing 1,000 kilograms (2,200 lb).

Julius Caesar wrote about them in Gallic War Chapter 6.28, "...those animals which are called uri. These are a little below the elephant in size, and of the appearance, color, and shape of a bull. Their strength and speed are extraordinary; they spare neither man nor wild beast which they have espied. "


Pathfinder Companion, Maps Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber

More Outsiders would be cool. Daemons, Proteans, and whatever you are using for LN.

Sovereign Court

James Jacobs wrote:
More dinosaurs!

Fewer Dinosaurs, more Pterosaurs, Synapsids, and Aquatic Reptiles!

Also, conjectural dinosaurs - dinosaur lineages that kept evolving after the (non-existent in this world) K-T event! Vaults and timeless Lost Worlds are all well and good, but if there's dinosaurs in the Mwangi, they will have changed over the last millions of years.

Carbuncles. Wolf-in-Sheep's-Clothing (a Mimic variant, perhaps?). Nilbogs (c'mon. Are you telling me Paizo can't kick seven kinds of ass with Nilbogs based on YOUR goblins?). Umplebys.

Aliens - Lashunta, Shobhad-neh, Ysoki, Contemplatives of Ashok, Vercesan monsters, Eoxan undead, Liavarans, Brethedans, Dimensional Shamblers (Chaosium's description is based on, of all things, a human wearing the skin of a dead one, and its abilities are created whole cloth from the name; it's a wide-open field!), official Mi-Go. You could probably do an entire bestiary of Dark Tapestry monsters and races.

As many new and interesting aquatic creatures as you can possibly cram in.

Liberty's Edge

Oh thought of something else:
Para-Elementals, Quasi-Elementals and "Energy" Elementals (Zagyi & Yizag). I second 8th Dwarf's idea if the Mega-Fauna. James I appreciate that your company is also going to concentrate on "real world" mythologies and cryptids. Hopefully you will include "Anthro-Cryptids" (ala Saquatch et al.)

Paizo Employee Creative Director

cappadocius wrote:
Nilbogs (c'mon. Are you telling me Paizo can't kick seven kinds of ass with Nilbogs based on YOUR goblins?).

Perhaps... but the fact that their game mechanic is little more than a "let's trick the players ha ha won't that be funny ha ha" and that petty and goofy attitude is carried over in the monster's very name, "ha ha isn't this witty nilbog is goblin spelled backwards ha ha get it ha ha this game isn't worth taking seriously so let's just make a big joke of it all ha ha ha." AKA: Nilbogs represent a disrespectful approach to the game that I'm not interested in perpetuating in Pathfinder. I'd rather take the creative energy we'd expend on "fixing" nilbogs and use that energy on something I think is worth the effort. (Which is pretty much ANYthing else. Wolves-in-sheep's-clothing and flail snails and dire corbies and flumphs included.)

cappadocius wrote:
Umplebys.

Not open content as far as I can tell.

Paizo Employee Creative Director

Kevida wrote:

Oh thought of something else:

Para-Elementals, Quasi-Elementals and "Energy" Elementals (Zagyi & Yizag). I second 8th Dwarf's idea if the Mega-Fauna. James I appreciate that your company is also going to concentrate on "real world" mythologies and cryptids. Hopefully you will include "Anthro-Cryptids" (ala Saquatch et al.)

We've already got a LOT of megafauna in the Bestairy. We won't be stopping at the smilodon or the mammoth, though, I guarentee that.

As for various flavors of elementals... we'll probably do a few more, but I don't really want to waste TOO much space on differently-flavored elementals because flavor-wise they're kind of boring. Needless to say the concepts start to creep into non-open content here and there (such as with the xeg-ya and xag-yi).


I was very excited to see the giant slug make it into the Bestiary I. The sea serpent also fills an excellent niche, long-neglected: a dragon that isn't smart, and doesn't talk.

Tougher unintelligent brutes with one or two magic tricks are always in high demand: the chimeric dire bears from Thunder Below, for example, have seen an awful lot of use at my table. Ditto anhkhegs and bulettes... and froghemoths and aurumvoraxes and squealers, for that matter.

Sovereign Court

James Jacobs wrote:


cappadocius wrote:
Umplebys.
Not open content as far as I can tell.

Really? I could swear they were in the first Tome of Horrors.

Shadow Lodge

I wouldn't mind seeing Antideluvians, or something a little Epic.

Paizo Employee Creative Director

cappadocius wrote:
James Jacobs wrote:


cappadocius wrote:
Umplebys.
Not open content as far as I can tell.
Really? I could swear they were in the first Tome of Horrors.

Nope. They got left behind.


James Jacobs wrote:
Nope. They got left behind.

And good riddance to them! They can live with the adherers and tiraphegs on never-used-monster island.

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