Are you referring to the ability to 'explode rock' as a swift action, then pick up a rock and throw it as a weapon? I actually like that mental image, and would be a pretty cool combo. Though from how it's worded, the rocks disappear next round as the difficult terrain is gone by then.
I suppose my added question to this would be if the Rock Throwing line of "Up to two categories SMALLER than your size". Does that mean a medium character could throw a tiny rock? Or should it be larger than your size? Not too sure why this was specifically mentioned, because I always assumed a medium character could throw a tiny rock...
Director of Games
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It seems like they would, but I just wanted to make sure the the Stone Focus abilities Rock Throwing and Shard Explosion were meant to stack.
I think that is a fine interpretation, although the pieces of rock might be a bit smaller than you could normally throw. Either way, I do not have a problem with it mechanically.
Jason Bulmahn
Lead Designer
Paizo Publishing
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Director of Games
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I suppose my added question to this would be if the Rock Throwing line of "Up to two categories SMALLER than your size". Does that mean a medium character could throw a tiny rock? Or should it be larger than your size? Not too sure why this was specifically mentioned, because I always assumed a medium character could throw a tiny rock...
That is what it means... a Tiny rock is actually still kinda big and very heavy. This allows you to ignore such weight, size, and proficiency concerns.
Jason Bulmahn
Lead Designer
Paizo Publishing
The Cavalier's challenge ability (very nice by the way) - it doesn't say anything about the target needing to be intelligent, speak the cavalier's language, or anything like that, right, so you can challenge an armchair if you want? Just asking because similar powers in D&D in the past have specified that, and the word "challenge" and phrase "challenge a foe to combat" kinda implies it. If that's not the case, maybe a different word to denote the cavalier's focusing on the one target?
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Director of Games
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The Cavalier's challenge ability (very nice by the way) - it doesn't say anything about the target needing to be intelligent, speak the cavalier's language, or anything like that, right, so you can challenge an armchair if you want? Just asking because similar powers in D&D in the past have specified that, and the word "challenge" and phrase "challenge a foe to combat" kinda implies it. If that's not the case, maybe a different word to denote the cavalier's focusing on the one target?
It is not, as of the current rules, language or intelligence dependent. You could not challenge a chair, since it is not a foe (but this language does need a bit of clarification). Besides, precision based damage is not going to do you much good against a chair.
The bonus damage here comes from a complete focus on harming the target of the challenge... not from some consequence of the target being yelled at by the cavalier. At least, that is the current intent. This is why the cavalier gets a penalty to its AC from other attackers.. he is focused on his challenge.
Jason Bulmahn
Lead Designer
Paizo Publishing
Granted it is a capstone ability but as written Supreme Charge stacks with Spirited Charge so the lance attack would be five times the normal damage. Seems pretty powerful but if this was the intent then I am fine with it. Just wanted to make sure Supreme Charge stacks with Spirited Charge.
Doug
The Cavalier's challenge ability (very nice by the way) - it doesn't say anything about the target needing to be intelligent, speak the cavalier's language, or anything like that, right, so you can challenge an armchair if you want? Just asking because similar powers in D&D in the past have specified that, and the word "challenge" and phrase "challenge a foe to combat" kinda implies it. If that's not the case, maybe a different word to denote the cavalier's focusing on the one target?
I pray it was deliberately left out, because like with rogue sneak attack, a primary class ability should not be disregarded by a huge chunk of potential enemies. Given how many abilities are tied to the challenge, if it had that limitation the class would be a wash. Half the monster manual (ok im exhagerating) would be immune to the class' main abilities.
Thanks for the stone reply Jason. I made the assumption that the rock was a weapon size, so like a medium shortsword VS a tiny shortsword. Not sure if that needs to be clarified, or if I'm just dumb ;)
I agree that the challenge should be clarified as there are quite a few loopholes for that. How I would view it, is if the target can see the Cavalier, he can issue a challenge based on body language and gestures (fits with his demoralizing abilities). If the target cannot see the Cavalier (blinded, hidden, etc, etc) but understand his speech then the challenge should apply, as the target is actively aware of it.
Let me play Devil's Advocate to my own above examples:
Say the Cavalier is under the effects of a Greater Invisibility and does not speak the language of his target; how exactly would the challenge work in that situation?
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The oracle does not gain eschew materials nor does it say that it does not need a divine focus to cast their spells. I assume this means that they need both. My problem is you could make the same argument for eschew materials for the oracle as has been made for the sorcerer. Not a big deal.
What I have more of an issue with is the divine focus. The oracle isn't supposed to worship any particular deity. Deities just give him his power and expect him to be a champion of their cause. Does that mean he has to use any holy symbol of a god that champions his focus or can he choose any other item that seems to hold some meaning for his focus? For example, a Battle Oracle using whatever weapon he happens to be holding or a Stone Oracle picking up some dirt or a piece of rock from the ground.
It seems that since they are being infused with and changed by the power of their focus, they themselves could serve as their divine focus...
Granted it is a capstone ability but as written Supreme Charge stacks with Spirited Charge so the lance attack would be five times the normal damage. Seems pretty powerful but if this was the intent then I am fine with it. Just wanted to make sure Supreme Charge stacks with Spirited Charge.
Doug
Supreme Charge (Ex): At 20th level, whenever the cavalier
makes a charge attack while mounted, he deals double thenormal amount of damage (or triple if using a lance).
The damage will be:
· 2 times with lance
· 3 times with lance and Supreme charge
· 4 times with lance, Supreme charge and Spirited charge
· 6 times with lance, Supreme charge, Spirited charge and a critical hit
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Director of Games
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The oracle does not gain eschew materials nor does it say that it does not need a divine focus to cast their spells. I assume this means that they need both. My problem is you could make the same argument for eschew materials for the oracle as has been made for the sorcerer. Not a big deal.
What I have more of an issue with is the divine focus. The oracle isn't supposed to worship any particular deity. Deities just give him his power and expect him to be a champion of their cause. Does that mean he has to use any holy symbol of a god that champions his focus or can he choose any other item that seems to hold some meaning for his focus? For example, a Battle Oracle using whatever weapon he happens to be holding or a Stone Oracle picking up some dirt or a piece of rock from the ground.
It seems that since they are being infused with and changed by the power of their focus, they themselves could serve as their divine focus...
I am thinking that the oracle class will probably get Eschew Materials as a bonus feat.
As for the divine focus needed for spellcasting, this is something I am still working on. I am thinking that it will be a symbol of the oracles focus, like an actual bone for the bones focus.
Thoughts
Jason Bulmahn
Lead Designer
Paizo Publishing
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The oracle does not gain eschew materials nor does it say that it does not need a divine focus to cast their spells. I assume this means that they need both. My problem is you could make the same argument for eschew materials for the oracle as has been made for the sorcerer. Not a big deal.
What I have more of an issue with is the divine focus. The oracle isn't supposed to worship any particular deity. Deities just give him his power and expect him to be a champion of their cause. Does that mean he has to use any holy symbol of a god that champions his focus or can he choose any other item that seems to hold some meaning for his focus? For example, a Battle Oracle using whatever weapon he happens to be holding or a Stone Oracle picking up some dirt or a piece of rock from the ground.
It seems that since they are being infused with and changed by the power of their focus, they themselves could serve as their divine focus...
I am thinking that the oracle class will probably get Eschew Materials as a bonus feat.
As for the divine focus needed for spellcasting, this is something I am still working on. I am thinking that it will be a symbol of the oracles focus, like an actual bone for the bones focus.
Thoughts
Jason Bulmahn
Lead Designer
Paizo Publishing
I like the idea. I don't know if you want to try to balance it against the cleric divine focus, which costs the cleric money depending on the gm. You could put a clause that it has to be worth at least x amount of money. But I don't think it is really necessary. Holy symbols don't cost that much and most GMs will give the cleric his holy symbol for free.
I am thinking that the oracle class will probably get Eschew Materials as a bonus feat.
As for the divine focus needed for spellcasting, this is something I am still working on. I am thinking that it will be a symbol of the oracles focus, like an actual bone for the bones focus.
Thoughts
Jason Bulmahn
Lead Designer
Paizo Publishing
I've always given sorcerers Eschew Materials for free, so I am a big fan of giving this option to Oracles as well.
As for the focus, it's a slippy slope... If you make it something basic, then it could be very easy for some Foci like Bone/Stone, while others such as wind are more obscure. Where one oracle could pickup any old bone or stone, the wind oracle may need a chime or flute.
Another alternative may be to have the focus be something attuned to the caster, something they can do while resting for spells.
Personally I'd just wave the requirement for a focus entirely. Part of the joys of being a spontaneous caster is the lack of any items aside from your own will.
Contributor, RPG Superstar 2008 Top 4, Legendary Games
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I question the while 'armor check penalty applied to the ride skill'. The cavalier class is 'born and bred' in the saddle, and will certainly wear a decent armor. And is likely to not emphasize DEX in character creation. But applying a hefty armor penalty to all ride checks - it just doesn't work for me.
(Unless this has been addressed in errata or something)
I would likewise suggest this might be a good class ability for the cavalier - some kind of offset for ACPs in armor.
Really, it would be an analog to the fighter's armor training, which decreases *ALL* ACPs and allows them to ignore movement penalties on foot. This kind of thing would seem to be wholly appropriate for a class that specializes in mounted combat.
A simple version could be like so:
3rd level: Armored rider (light) - no ACP to Ride checks in light armor
6th level: Armored rider (medium) - ditto for medium
9th level: Armored rider (heavy) - ditto for heavy
You could also make it like the ranger's Track or the rogue's Trapfinding - just arbitrarily state that they get a +1/2 level bonus to all Ride checks (if you wanna be generous) or that they reduce ACP to Ride checks by 1/2 level.
Lastly, you could say their ACP reduction is doubled when riding their class ability Mount (rather than some other old nag).
Just some ideas, because I certainly agree that a class with heavy armor proficiency and built substantially (though not entirely) around riding shouldn't be penalized for trying to use the two class abilities together.
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Contributor, RPG Superstar 2008 Top 4, Legendary Games
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What counts as a rideable mount?
Say you're running PF rules in an Eberron setting; could you have a Talenta halfling cavalier riding a velociraptor?
Or, keeping it in Golarion, could you have an aquatic mount for a cavalier, like a shark, crocodile, or even a constrictor snake (size M at 1st, size L at 4th level)?
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Man... I am loving the Oracle, and the Cavalier as well, but my first thought when I see the Cavalier is "damn...even less reason to play a fighter now"
I don't know, maybe it's just me, but the bonus feats, 4+ skill points, and numerous NUMEROUS other abilities seem to outweigh what the Fighter has. I hate making the 'it's better than a Fighter' argument and it may just be because these classes are new, but damn does the Cavalier seem to have a lot going for it.
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I am thinking that the oracle class will probably get Eschew Materials as a bonus feat.
As for the divine focus needed for spellcasting, this is something I am still working on. I am thinking that it will be a symbol of the oracles focus, like an actual bone for the bones focus.
Thoughts
Jason Bulmahn
Lead Designer
Paizo Publishing
I've got no problems with eschew materials and the divine focus needed for spellcasting.
That thunderburst power though. I'm surprised that this is being errated as "bludgeoning". Any chance of the final version becoming "sonic" ? I already know what My players are going to say.
I suppose my added question to this would be if the Rock Throwing line of "Up to two categories SMALLER than your size". Does that mean a medium character could throw a tiny rock? Or should it be larger than your size? Not too sure why this was specifically mentioned, because I always assumed a medium character could throw a tiny rock...
By Tiny rock, I assume they mean "a rock as big as a Tiny creature", not "a rock suitable for use as an improvised weapon by a Tiny creature".
EDIT: Oh, it looks like that was already clarified.
Another question just occurred to me. How does the "Clouded Vision" curse effect the half-orc and Dwarf who already have 60' darkvision?
I would imagine it cuts their darkvision to 30ft. Its not a great choice for someone who already has darkvision, but at later levels its not completely a penalty.
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Another question just occurred to me. How does the "Clouded Vision" curse effect the half-orc and Dwarf who already have 60' darkvision?I would imagine it cuts their darkvision to 30ft. Its not a great choice for someone who already has darkvision, but at later levels its not completely a penalty.
yeah, that was my thought too. I wasn't sure if there was supposed to be an exception in the rule or not. Apparently not.
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I read over it and so far the big thing that bugs me was Oaths by the cavalier. I love the idea of oaths but not a fan of how they are being done. Let me explain why.
Lets take chastity as a example. A Cavalier can swear a oath of it stay away from the gender he likes, but then the very next day go to a whore house and sleep with everyone there. Then the following day go back to being chaste. That just doesn't make sense for me.
Now I wouldn't just b&#+# if I didn't have constuctive feedback to offer. Some oaths to me are more life oaths something you do for your whole life unless something major in your life changes your views on life. While others are oaths you take to accomplish a task. From a I swear to bring you safely to your father etc.
So what I think would be better honestly is this.
Life Oaths: These are oaths that grant smaller bonuses, but perment unless broken. They are choosen at creation and maybe allow a Cavalier to choose more as they level. If they ever break the oath it is gone for ever and unless they do a type of atonement similar to a paladin they can never take the oath again. They can take a new oath of course.
Task Oaths: These are more oaths taken that grant larger but more specific bonuses that last until the task is done. Perhaps if they fail at the oath they can not remake that oath for X amount of time.
Anyways just thoughts I had, mostly cause some of the oaths bug me as daily oaths that can radically change from day to day as my chastity example above.
Can the cavalier choose to gain the effects an arbitrary oath after just happening to have fulfilled the prerequisites?
Edit: Moving most of this post to the Playtest topic.
I read over it and so far the big thing that bugs me was Oaths by the cavalier. I love the idea of oaths but not a fan of how they are being done. Let me explain why.
Lets take chastity as a example. A Cavalier can swear a oath of it stay away from the gender he likes, but then the very next day go to a whore house and sleep with everyone there. Then the following day go back to being chaste. That just doesn't make sense for me.
I tend to agree. The poverty/chastity/etc kind of oaths need to have much longer lead times and perhaps some kind of active atonement required if broken (hey, a use for the atonement spell!)
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Creative Director
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One of the TRICKIEST things with these classes is to make them cool, fun, and exciting, but NOT to make them something that replaces one of the 11 base classes. The cavalier's a great example, and we'll be looking at it very closely (and studying the playtest feedback) to make sure he's not poaching too much from the fighter and the paladin.
I read over it and so far the big thing that bugs me was Oaths by the cavalier. I love the idea of oaths but not a fan of how they are being done. Let me explain why.
Lets take chastity as a example. A Cavalier can swear a oath of it stay away from the gender he likes, but then the very next day go to a whore house and sleep with everyone there. Then the following day go back to being chaste. That just doesn't make sense for me.
***
Anyways just thoughts I had, mostly cause some of the oaths bug me as daily oaths that can radically change from day to day as my chastity example above.
I've read it a few times, and it did seem a little different, but, personally, I can see the need for short term oaths with bonuses if they're doing oaths for the class. The cavalier can be any alignment, and I would find it very difficult to truly see a chaotic individual worrying about upholding a long term oath, such as chastity or poverty. If it's going to be a life long oath, it would make it feel a lot more like the paladin to me, with their life long dedication to law and good. I've yet to run one, but I think it would feel a little off kilteer to have one without the alignment restrictions to the overall class, which would narrow it from what it was now.
I could definitely see the chaotic cavalier with the daily fickle personal oaths and the order of the dragon and it's preening code.
Just my 2 cents.
Does challenge have a roleplaying component?
Can you challenge an Ooze?
Does challenge have a roleplaying component?
Can you challenge an Ooze?
I don't see why that would contradict roleplaying. It's really the cavalier who cares about the challenge, not the target; I think of it as the "tunnel vision" class feature.
Even the Order of the Cockatrice challenge ability can pretty easily be seen as the cavalier aiding his allies, rather than the target directly suffering a penalty. Note that it only works when the cavalier is threatening the target.
And another clarification...
Bleeding Wounds (Su): Whenever a creature takes damage from one of your spells or effects that causes negative energy damage (such as inflict light wounds or channel negative energy), it begins to bleed, taking 1 point of damage each round. At 5th level, and every five levels thereafter, this damage increases by 1. This bleeding can be stopped by a DC 15 Heal check or any effect that heals damage.
The oracle can get inflict light wounds, but short of multiclassing, they cannot channel negative energy. Normally, class abilities don't reference abilities from other classes. Was this an artifact left over from an earlier version of the oracle that could channel energy? Or did the channel energy ability get left off the playtest doc? Or is this just a strange reference to a power a straight oracle shouldn't have?
Oracle Clarification needed.
Armor of Bones (Su): You can conjure armor made of bones that grants you a +2 armor bonus. At 7th level, and every four levels hereafter, this bonus increases by +2. At 13th level, this armor grants you DR 5/bludgeoning. You can use this armor for a number of minutes per day equal to your oracle level. This duration does not need to be consecutive, but it must be spent in 1 minute increments.
Does Armor of Bones stack with worn armor? If it does, it needs to specify it stacks with worn armor, or it needs to have a bonus type (such as sacred/profane). I don't think it's all that overpowered considering the duration to let it stack with worn armor, and it gives a cool image as bones grow out of your body and over your armor, clicking and interlocking.
If it doesn't stack, I'd up the duration to 10 minutes per level instead, with the thought this is the person's primary defense ability, and they won't be using worn armor a lot. That would make for a very good tumble artist as this stuff wouldn't have ACP.
Does challenge have a roleplaying component?
Can you challenge an Ooze?
I don't see why that would contradict roleplaying. It's really the cavalier who cares about the challenge, not the target; I think of it as the "tunnel vision" class feature.
Even the Order of the Cockatrice challenge ability can pretty easily be seen as the cavalier aiding his allies, rather than the target directly suffering a penalty. Note that it only works when the cavalier is threatening the target.
I would have a problem with a challenge affecting creatures without sentience at the level where the creature gains AC penalties when your allies attack it once you challenge it. I think the target should have to understand the concept of a challenge. It doesn't matter how much I yell at the ooze, it doesn't have enough intelligence to understand what I'm doing. A bear might, they instinctually understand a challenge of dominance, an ooze (or shambling mound, or some weird outsider) might not.
Touch of Flame (Su): As a standard action, you can perform a melee touch attack that deals 1d6 points of fire damage +1 point for every two oracle levels you possess. You can use this ability a number of times per day equal to 3 + your Charisma modifier. At 11th level, any weapon that you wield is treated as a flaming weapon.
I'm pretty sure I know the answer to this, but, I assume the 11th level power is only when using one of your daily uses, not all the time, but it's worded in a way that's a bit dodgy. I'd make it 'At 11th level, while using this ability, any weapon that you wield is treated as a flaming weapon'.
Might I also suggest that rather than times per day it be made rounds per day? That way, if the oracle has multiple attacks, he can apply the 'flaming weapon' to all attacks in the round? Otherwise, if he has 3 attacks, as written, he has to use 3 daily uses to use the ability on all his attacks made in a full-attack action. Granted, it says standard action, but, I don't think it would be overpowering to just make it rounds per day and allow the damage on attacks per normal usage. Kind of like the mechanic for bardic music and rage.
Final Revelation: Upon reaching 20th level, you become a master of fire. You can apply any one of the following feats to any fire spell you cast without increasing the level or casting time: Enlarge Spell, Extend Spell, Silent Spell, or Still Spell.
Does the oracle have to have the metamagic feats to apply them, or can they apply the feats without knowing them?
Wings of Air (Su): "... You must be at least 5th level before selecting this revelation."
Am I the only one who sees that as weird. You only get revelations at 1st, 3rd, 7th, 11th... There is no revelation at 5th level so why say you must be at least 5th level.
The only reason I can see is that you must be at least 5th character level not oracle level. Is this true. Could a 2nd level paladin/3rd level oracle choose wings of air with his 3rd level revelation if he was 5th level total at the time?
Shade325
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Director of Games
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Does the oracle have to have the metamagic feats to apply them, or can they apply the feats without knowing them?
Final Revelation: Upon reaching 20th level, you become a master of fire. You can apply any one of the following feats to any fire spell you cast without increasing the level or casting time: Enlarge Spell, Extend Spell, Silent Spell, or Still Spell.
The oracle does not have to know the feats to apply them with this ability.
Jason Bulmahn
Lead Designer
Paizo Publishing
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Director of Games
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Wings of Air (Su): "... You must be at least 5th level before selecting this revelation."
Am I the only one who sees that as weird. You only get revelations at 1st, 3rd, 7th, 11th... There is no revelation at 5th level so why say you must be at least 5th level.
The only reason I can see is that you must be at least 5th character level not oracle level. Is this true. Could a 2nd level paladin/3rd level oracle choose wings of air with his 3rd level revelation if he was 5th level total at the time?
Shade325
This is a mistake. It should be 7th...
Jason Bulmahn
Lead Designer
Paizo Publishing
Does the oracle have to have the metamagic feats to apply them, or can they apply the feats without knowing them?
Final Revelation: Upon reaching 20th level, you become a master of fire. You can apply any one of the following feats to any fire spell you cast without increasing the level or casting time: Enlarge Spell, Extend Spell, Silent Spell, or Still Spell.The oracle does not have to know the feats to apply them with this ability.
Jason Bulmahn
Lead Designer
Paizo Publishing
Ah, ok, that's pretty powerful then. And the other half-dozen questions I asked? ;) Come on, chop chop. ;)
I read over it and so far the big thing that bugs me was Oaths by the cavalier. I love the idea of oaths but not a fan of how they are being done. Let me explain why.
Lets take chastity as a example. A Cavalier can swear a oath of it stay away from the gender he likes, but then the very next day go to a whore house and sleep with everyone there. Then the following day go back to being chaste. That just doesn't make sense for me.
A good point but I have a simpler suggestion.
Requires a day per cavalier level to "recover" from a transgression. So a first-level cavalier who falls off the horse (yes, that'd be the first cavalier-themed joke) into a brothel only loses his benefits for one day. A seventh-level cavalier who does the same loses his benefits for a week.
Yes, if the party has lots of down-time it's not much of a punishment, but that's the perfect time the DM to say... have the father of one of the brothel-workers have finally found her, and track down her last known "employer".
RPG Superstar 2008 Top 32, 2011 Top 16
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Wings of Air (Su): "... You must be at least 5th level before selecting this revelation."
Am I the only one who sees that as weird. You only get revelations at 1st, 3rd, 7th, 11th... There is no revelation at 5th level so why say you must be at least 5th level.
The only reason I can see is that you must be at least 5th character level not oracle level. Is this true. Could a 2nd level paladin/3rd level oracle choose wings of air with his 3rd level revelation if he was 5th level total at the time?
Shade325
Unless there's a feat Extra Revelation that would let you take it at 5th level. I had assumed that the minimum level requirements were to make sure you don't get a power before you could cast an equivilent spell.
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RPG Superstar 2008 Top 32, 2011 Top 16
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For the Oath of Justice, I'm having a hard time seeing how this one would get used. Generally, you would swear it on a creature that is more than likely the main villain of the story, capture or defeat him, and then get your bonus to saves for the next day. However, you'd be done with the adventure, and unless you have some random encounters on the way back, you're not as likely to actually get use out of the bonus. All of the other oaths seem to be things that can be accomplished in the middle of an adventure, and therefore have their bonus apply to the remainder.
Also, how does it work with "a specific individual or creature"? If you know that the mayor was kidnapped, but not by whom, can you swear it against his kidnapper? Or do you need to know who the kidnapper is first?
Does challenge have a roleplaying component?
Can you challenge an Ooze?
I don't see why that would contradict roleplaying. It's really the cavalier who cares about the challenge, not the target; I think of it as the "tunnel vision" class feature.
Even the Order of the Cockatrice challenge ability can pretty easily be seen as the cavalier aiding his allies, rather than the target directly suffering a penalty. Note that it only works when the cavalier is threatening the target.
"I'ma kill you, Ooze!"
Lets take chastity as a example. A Cavalier can swear a oath of it stay away from the gender he likes, but then the very next day go to a whore house and sleep with everyone there. Then the following day go back to being chaste. That just doesn't make sense for me.
Cavalier of Calistria? with superstitions similar to that of some boxers before a big fight... intimacy saps your strength and causes distractions.
I agree though, at least a month IMO.
Besides I would make sure your cleric is at least 5th level before going in THAT adventure.