I was hoping someone could clarify how monsters attack in regards to full attack action and standard action. Our GM switched over to Pathfinder RAW from a simplified house rules 3.5 thing we were doing before (because everyone was new to tabletop gaming). So now we're trying to follow the rules closely and of course things are coming up that we're not so sure about.
Here's the issue we have...
A gibbering mouther has 6 bite attacks listed. Does it have to take a full attack action to do 6 bites? Or do those 6 bites count as a standard action?
A related question, a tiger has 2 claws and a bite listed. When a tiger does a full attack, does it get to attack with 2 claws and its bite?
Thanks for the help.
I was hoping someone could clarify how monsters attack in regards to full attack action and standard action. Our GM switched over to Pathfinder RAW from a simplified house rules 3.5 thing we were doing before (because everyone was new to tabletop gaming). So now we're trying to follow the rules closely and of course things are coming up that we're not so sure about.
Here's the issue we have...
A gibbering mouther has 6 bite attacks listed. Does it have to take a full attack action to do 6 bites? Or do those 6 bites count as a standard action?
A related question, a tiger has 2 claws and a bite listed. When a tiger does a full attack, does it get to attack with 2 claws and its bite?
Thanks for the help.
standard action = 1 attack
full attack/pounce = all attacks
special exceptions may apply, these are good general guidelines.
I was hoping someone could clarify how monsters attack in regards to full attack action and standard action. Our GM switched over to Pathfinder RAW from a simplified house rules 3.5 thing we were doing before (because everyone was new to tabletop gaming). So now we're trying to follow the rules closely and of course things are coming up that we're not so sure about.
Here's the issue we have...
A gibbering mouther has 6 bite attacks listed. Does it have to take a full attack action to do 6 bites? Or do those 6 bites count as a standard action?
A related question, a tiger has 2 claws and a bite listed. When a tiger does a full attack, does it get to attack with 2 claws and its bite?
Thanks for the help.
like others said, if you take a standard attack, you get one attack
If you take a full attack, you get all attacks listed in the monster entry. So a 12 headed hydra gets 1 attack as a standard action, and if they take a full attack the hydra gets all 12 bites. There are ofcourse excpetions to this but they will will be speficially mentioned in the monster entry.
I wonder why the new statblock doesn't include entries both for "Attack" and for "Full Attack", as the 3.5 version did.
For instance, the Minotaur had:
Attack: Greataxe +9 melee (3d6+6/×3) or gore +9 melee (1d8+4)
Full Attack: Greataxe +9/+4 melee (3d6+6/×3) and gore +4 melee (1d8+2)
Probably a space issue :)
I wonder why the new statblock doesn't include entries both for "Attack" and for "Full Attack", as the 3.5 version did.
For instance, the Minotaur had:
Attack: Greataxe +9 melee (3d6+6/×3) or gore +9 melee (1d8+4)
Full Attack: Greataxe +9/+4 melee (3d6+6/×3) and gore +4 melee (1d8+2)Probably a space issue :)
probably because they didn't want to type the same thing twice in 2 different formats. He has two weapons, an axe, and a gore. He follows the rules he can full attack with his weapon and then use is gore as a secondary, or he can move and take a standard action, one axe, or one gore.
I was hoping someone could clarify how monsters attack in regards to full attack action and standard action. Our GM switched over to Pathfinder RAW from a simplified house rules 3.5 thing we were doing before (because everyone was new to tabletop gaming). So now we're trying to follow the rules closely and of course things are coming up that we're not so sure about.
Here's the issue we have...
A gibbering mouther has 6 bite attacks listed. Does it have to take a full attack action to do 6 bites? Or do those 6 bites count as a standard action?
A related question, a tiger has 2 claws and a bite listed. When a tiger does a full attack, does it get to attack with 2 claws and its bite?
Thanks for the help.
Just one thing to add that I missed when I was first getting started. Natural weapons NEVER get extra attacks for a high base attack bonus. On the other hand, you can always add a natural attack onto the end of a full attack action as a secondary attack (-5).
Creative Director
|
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Yeah; space was a HUGE element in this book, and getting the stat blocks as compact as we could without sacrificing necessary information was a trick. We actually abandoned the "attack/full attack" element for our stat blocks when we first started to do Pathfinder products, in fact... it just felt repetitive.
And now that in Pathfinder a monster's primary and secondary attacks are determined by the type of attack and not when in an attack sequence they occur, there's even LESS of a reason to maintain the split.
|
Creative Director
|
Unless Paizo changed it, Hydras ARE one of those exceptions, each head getting to attack as a standard action.
We did change it, sort of. The 3.5 hydra was a weird case. An experiment in monster design, if you will. And a failed one, in my opinion. Hydra fights were weird. They followed all these different rules that no other monster used (even monsters with lots of attacks, like krakens or dragons), and as a result a fight with a hydra always felt awkward and out of place. It's like playing football but then suddenly changing the rules to be baseball for one play.
The Pathfinder hydra now functions like any other monster. It just uses the pounce ability to make a move and all of its bite attacks, or the Combat Reflexes feat to be able to make additional attacks of opportunity (although to be REALLY good at it, a hydra needs to focus on bolstering its Dex score, of course).
The end result is a monster that not only plays better and more elegantly (since it uses the same rules as all other monsters), but a monster that's not ridiculously overpowered for its CR and punishes players for thinking that the rules of combat can't change and that the basics of fighting one monster are the same for all combats.
Speaking of this, I had a party get really angry at me for dropping a hydra into an adventure I wrote. Their first encounter with it went against them horribly, but after they regrouped and planned a proper strategy, they killed it almost too easily. I am really not sad to see the rules on it change.
If a creature that has multiple attacks because of a high BAB (say a creature who wields a sword with three attacks) also has a string of natural attacks (say, a bite and two claws); what would happen if it decided to use a full round attack action using its sword and then it's natural attacks? Would it get its three sword attacks, and either a bite or a claw at a minus 5 penalty? Or would it get all three sword attacks, a bite, and then a claw (both the bite and the single claw being at a minus 5 penalty)?
It would get all of its 3 sword attacks (using iterative BAB), plus the one bite attack (at -5), plus both claw attacks (at -5).
Of course, that assumes the claws not being on the hands. If both claws are on the hands, it would get 0 claw attacks if the sword was two-handed, or 1 claw attack if the sword is one-handed.
What about a monster with several different natural attacks like the Tarrasque?
As a full round action does it get its +37 Bite, +37 Claw (x2), +37 Gore (x2), and its +32 Tail Slap?
I'm just used to seeing additional attacks with a successive -5 to them.
What about a monster with several different natural attacks like the Tarrasque?
As a full round action does it get its +37 Bite, +37 Claw (x2), +37 Gore (x2), and its +32 Tail Slap?
I'm just used to seeing additional attacks with a successive -5 to them.
Attacks with natural weapons don't follow the successive -5 rule. They're each a single attack at either full BAB, or BAB-5 (which becomes -2 if the monster has the Multiattack feat). Only by using a manufactured weapon (or unarmed strike) can you make multiple attacks with the same weapon, and that's where the iterative -5 comes in.
Weapon: Attacks based on BAB (at -5 each).
Natural: Attacks based on number of natural weapons (at full or reduced, dependent on the weapon).
In other words, use the stat block as written ;)
|
@KwwB
When it makes a single attack via Standard action, you get to pick which attack it uses [a claw or a bite]. Full attack goes through all the ones listed [e.g. 2 claws & 1 bite]. Remember to apply the listed attack bonus, even if using a secondary attack as the only attack with a Standard action; secondary natural attacks have a penalty unless you've got feats ameliorating the situation.
So regardless if it separates multiple forms of attacks with either a comma, the word AND, or the word OR, if the monster uses a standard action to attack it only gets ONE attack even if the attack chosen has multiples listed? Example : 2 claw, 6 bites, 1 gore. It only gets to claw ONCE or bite ONCE if it uses those forms of attack.
But if the monster uses a full round action to attack it gets to attack with ALL listed forms of attack unless they are separated with the word OR? Example : Melee +3 holy greatsword +27/+23/+17 (3d6+15/19-20) OR slam +24 (2d8+12)
Exactly :)
Sorry to resurrect the thread, but I'm still unclear on the attack bonus thing. If I got it right, when attacking with more than one natural weapon, the monster doesn't get a penalty on its attack roll. Like let's say the Sea Hag, having "Melee 2 claws +8 (1d6+4)" would attack with each claw on a full attack, adding +8 to each attack roll. Or would it make the first one with +8 and the second one with +3?
The creature would attack with two claws, both with +8 added to the attack roll.
The only time a monster gets penalties to its attack rolls with natural attacks is if: (a) it also attacks with manufactured weapons (in which case all its natural attacks count as secondary), or (b) some of those attacks are secondary (as per the natural attacks table in the Bestiary).
Luckily, both (a) and (b) are already calculated into the monster statblocks, so the only time you'll have to worry about those is if you're modifying a monster or creating a new monster :)
Both would be at the full +8 bonus. Natural attacks do not suffer a reduction in attack bonus for each successive attack.
Ninja'd
Great thread. Answered all my questions.