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Can someone explain this to me?
Here is what it says in the Bestiary (and the PRD)
Flyby Attack
This creature can make an attack before and after it moves while flying.
Prerequisite: Fly speed.
Benefit: When flying, the creature can take a move action and another standard action at any point during the move. The creature cannot take a second move action during a round when it makes a flyby attack.
Normal: Without this feat, the creature takes a standard action either before or after its move.
The creature can ATTACK before and after a move? Wasn't this always a creature can MOVE before and after an attack? I just keep scratching my head when i read this entry. Please help, my scalp is getting sore.
Creative Director
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Without Flyby Attack, a creature's attack and move happen in sequence. One happens first, then the other happens. It can move up to a target and attack, or it can attack a target and then move.
Flyby Attack lets the flying creature make its attack in the MIDDLE of its move. If, say, it has a fly speed of 50 feet, it could move from point A to point B fifty feet away, and make an attack at any target along the way.
Flyby Attack's handy against non-flying foes, really, since you can swoop down using part of your fly speed, attack the grounded foe, then fly back up into the air and out of reach with whatever fly speed for that round you have left.
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This creature can make an attack before and after it moves while flying.
This portion is pretty poorly worded, but if you approach it the right way it can mean what the rest of the rules say.
What it's saying is that the attack can be made both before and after it moves while flying. So the creature moves and then attacks after moving (thus the "after" part of the flavor text).
If it continues to move after the attack, then that attack occurred before the rest of the movement. Thus, it's attack was both before movement and after movement.
I agree that there are probably a dozen ways to word it that are much more clear, but I can see the intent.
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Creative Director
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This creature can make an attack before and after it moves while flying.This portion is pretty poorly worded, but if you approach it the right way it can mean what the rest of the rules say.
What it's saying is that the attack can be made both before and after it moves while flying. So the creature moves and then attacks after moving (thus the "after" part of the flavor text).
If it continues to move after the attack, then that attack occurred before the rest of the movement. Thus, it's attack was both before movement and after movement.
I agree that there are probably a dozen ways to word it that are much more clear, but I can see the intent.
Yup... it's worded a bit awkwardly but it's not technically incorrect. Still... something we'll probably be fixing eventually.
Flyby doesn't explicitly say it, while Spring Attack does. So by RAW a flyby attack move does provoke. By RAI I think that's correct interpretation as well, since a land-bound target (which PCs very often are) can't fly up to engage a flying creature on it's turn, so the only shot it may have to counterattack is the AoO. Flyby provoking therefore makes the feats equivalent in power - whereas both lets you get in, attack, and get out, spring attack forces the opponent to chase after you, while flyby often limits the opponent to only the AoO.
The flavor text on this is particularly problematic because it does support a misunderstanding of the ambiguous language of the rule - The literal read of the flavor text and the rule together describes a feat that lets you attack, move, attack again, then complete the move (if there's any movement left). Zuri in another thread on this nailed it:
Ignore the flavor text; it's obviously inverted from "move before and after an attack".
As for the rules text, it's much clearer when you add the missing commas: "Benefit: When flying, the creature can take a move action and another, standard, action at any point during the move."
I really, really hate to do this, because I believe in interpreting Pathfinder on its own, but there was, indeed, a separate feat in 3.5 that allowed a fly by attack that did not provoke.
That having been said, lots of things that can do a flyby have reach, so depending on how you feel about attacking a body part and if you allow it, many creatures may not need to worry about provoking.
Ok and in the case of someone making a ready action to attack the monster once it closes on you, I suppose the AoO and the ready action would mean that the player would get two attacks at no penalty, right?
The other thing I wanted to ask, could you do Power Attack in an AoO?
Ok and in the case of someone making a ready action to attack the monster once it closes on you, I suppose the AoO and the ready action would mean that the player would get two attacks at no penalty, right?
The other thing I wanted to ask, could you do Power Attack in an AoO?
Correct on both counts. The readied action would go off as soon as the flying creature is in reach. The AoO would then be triggered when they leave your threatened square.
Power Attack can be declared whenever you are taking an attack action. Note however that once declared, it's in effect until your next turn. So if you declare Power Attack and then get to make an AoO, the AoO must also use Power Attack.
But I mean suppose that you start your round and you don't declare Power Attack, then your round gets by and later before your other round starts you get an AoO, could you declare Power Attack on the AoO???
But I mean suppose that you start your round and you don't declare Power Attack, then your round gets by and later before your other round starts you get an AoO, could you declare Power Attack on the AoO???
No. You can only declare a Power Attack when it is your initiative, then the bonus to damage and penalty to attack lasts until it is your initiative again. No exceptions, sorry.
But I mean suppose that you start your round and you don't declare Power Attack, then your round gets by and later before your other round starts you get an AoO, could you declare Power Attack on the AoO???No. You can only declare a Power Attack when it is your initiative, then the bonus to damage and penalty to attack lasts until it is your initiative again. No exceptions, sorry.
Is there a reference for this? Power Attack states that you must choose to use it "before making an attack roll," emphasis mine. This says to me that you could decide to use Power Attack on any attack, including AoO's. If it had said that it had to be declared as part of an attack action, then I'd agree with you.
Also note that the standard action does not have to be a attack. You could cast a spell for instance.
Is there a reference for this? Power Attack states that you must choose to use it "before making an attack roll," emphasis mine. This says to me that you could decide to use Power Attack on any attack, including AoO's. If it had said that it had to be declared as part of an attack action, then I'd agree with you.But I mean suppose that you start your round and you don't declare Power Attack, then your round gets by and later before your other round starts you get an AoO, could you declare Power Attack on the AoO???No. You can only declare a Power Attack when it is your initiative, then the bonus to damage and penalty to attack lasts until it is your initiative again. No exceptions, sorry.
Hmm, not exactly.. It is just the only way I have ever interpreted Power Attack. But I think the RAI here is pretty clear: "You must choose to use this feat before making an attack roll, and its effects last until your next turn.", emphasis mine. What I think the Paizo gods meant here when they incsribed this particular rule, in their not-so-permanent stone tablet, is that when you choose to activate PA you are stuck with your choice until it is your turn again.
I mean, if you can`t turn off PA when it is someone else`s turn because you find those AC-penalties a trifle irritating, then you can`t suddenly activate it out of initiative because of an AoO and you want to do extra damage.
I realize this post is very old, has been revived twice already, and has been addressed in another interpretation thread as not allowing two standard actions. However, I just ran into this in my game today, interpreted it as granting two standard actions, realized it was broken, and found this thread researching it. It seems confusing, but I think I thought up an interpretation that makes sense, so I wanted to post it for anyone else looking this up later.
It works as intended if you consider the Flyby Attack as the standard action. That is, in any situation where a monster would get a standard action (such as a surprise round, is a zombie, is slowed, or gets a normal round), the standard action can be a Flyby Attack. By using up the standard action, Flyby Attack has to grant another attack within itself to be at all useful. The intent of giving the dragon strafing ability and the fact that the breath weapon isn't an attack means that they had to state it as a standard action.
So, it might read "When flying, the creature can take a move action and another standard action (in addition to the one used to initiate the Flyby Attack) at any point during the move." The line "The creature cannot take a second move action during a round when it makes a flyby attack." prevents monsters from getting two moves and an attack.
I guess it is also implied that the standard action inside the Flyby Attack cannot be another Flyby Attack. Otherwise, that could be chained to get infinite movement.
But this point of view interprets the Flyby Attack as a standard action just like any other Special Attack in the 3.5 PHB (pages 154-160).
Interesting point that the Flyby Attack doesn't avoid the Attack of Opportunity like Spring Attack and Ride-By Attack. Also, Ride-By attack allows the double move with the attack.
Interesting point that the Flyby Attack doesn't avoid the Attack of Opportunity like Spring Attack and Ride-By Attack. Also, Ride-By attack allows the double move with the attack.
It's ported straight from 3.5e. You needed Improved Flyby Attack to avoid the AoO, and I don't think the Paizo development team has included that feat yet. Or perhaps they're expecting Spring Attack to take its place for flying creatures.