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I recently bought the Green Ronin Testament d20 book for a friend of mine, who plays in my Eberron group. I'm not religious (agnostic, prefer to keep religious discussions out of this thread if possible) and thus, am not especially familiar with the Bible. This makes coming up with any kind of campaign for the game fairly difficult.
He's got a pretty good sense of humor, and although he isn't super vocal about his beliefs, they are strong. He also has a bachelor's degree in history, and one of his foci in his studies were ancient Hebrew culture. He's really intent on playing this game, and as his regular DM and the person who bought the gift, he wants me to run a game.
My concept is fairly simple. The group starts with a few levels under their belts, three of them being figures in a small unnamed town, elders respected by all. These three are some combination of Druid, Paladin, Cleric, and Diviner wizard, possibly with setting-specific classes thrown into the mix.
They are brought together, as the three village elders, by an omen of a bright star burning in the sky. They meet, consulting with holy divinations to conclude that they need to travel to several nearby locations, questing for a valuable golden statue, powerful and holy incense, and a rare resinous material known as "myrrh" to present to the newly-born King of Kings. The myrrh would need to be gathered in Yemen (according to Wikipedia, that is where it would have to be gathered Biblically), while the frankincense would require them to earn the trust of a renowned Rabbi to earn a portion of his rare holy incense, and the gold would probably be some sort of "D&D"ish dungeon crawl to recover a lost artifact of religious significance.
The could potentially be accompanied by a young bard, who specializes in drum instruments, who also wishes to pay humble respects to the newborn child, and possibly another villager who could act as a guide (ranger), guard (fighter-type), et cetera, to work in character types that don't fit the three wise men.
I don't claim intimate knowledge of the story of the three wise men, but there could be a small political intrigue portion tied into King Herod when they meet him in Jerusalem. They then set out for Bethlehem to present their gifts.
If it doesn't seem too over-the-top I could tie King Herod into a shared vision they have on the eve before reaching Bethlehem, with a dark beast (AKA 'final boss' of the campaign, but also representing King Herod's ill intent) that, once defeated (in their dream), turns out to be King Herod, thus giving them a warning not to return to him as he requested.
The campaign finally ends with them presenting their gifts to the son of God.
As a concept, I think it is tied into the setting just enough that it's distinctly Biblical, and assuming that the players try to be serious about it, it shouldn't be too horribly sacrilegious or offensive. He's a pretty open-minded guy, and I'm going to present him with the general concept later today to see what he thinks.
What do you think of it? Anybody more strongly anchored in Christianity (or Judaism or Islam for that matter) have any feedback or suggestions? I'd really like to keep this constructive because I'm trying hard not to be offensive, but still come up with a campaign that would be fun to play and distinct.
I'm a pretty strong Christian and like to study into Judaism and anchient Hebrew things myself, and I don't think this is offensive. Now, if anyone in your group is strongly offended by biblical beliefs you may have problems if they try to sabatoge things, but I think your idea is something I might like to play myself.
You might consider going to your FLCBS (Friendly Local Christian Book Store) and looking for studies and/or fiction dealing with the relevant topics with a focus on the historical details more than the spiritual. I could do some research and try to find something to recommend.
I noticed a few things:
- if the player has a degree in history, you should better get your facts right, if not, his enjoyment could suffer (I know mine would).
- Do you have other players? Ask them if they are ok with that story as well. You and your players are the only ones possibly offended (unless you go public with the story somehow, which I would not recommend), so if all participants are ok with that, it should be ok. (If things like
these are ok, they I don´t find fault with your idea.
- don´t think too much in character classes when designing this story as RPG campaign - I think that your mix of classes for the three is a bit too much, I especially don´t see anything pointing to a paladin - most likely, they should be either diviners or even adepts (the NPC class), perhaps beefed up a bit. (As an aside, perhaps the whole campaign could work with NPC classes only)
- the most important decision is probably how you handle the religion(s) and its effects - are there the usual D&D clerics? I think this could ruin it for me.
Otherwise, gathering the proper gifts is a nice idea for representing the usual treasure hunt differently.
Stefan
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I'm a pretty strong Christian and like to study into Judaism and anchient Hebrew things myself, and I don't think this is offensive. Now, if anyone in your group is strongly offended by biblical beliefs you may have problems if they try to sabatoge things, but I think your idea is something I might like to play myself.
You might consider going to your FLCBS (Friendly Local Christian Book Store) and looking for studies and/or fiction dealing with the relevant topics with a focus on the historical details more than the spiritual. I could do some research and try to find something to recommend.
The other players I would consider asking to join are varied in their religious outlooks, but are all open minded and tolerant. I myself probably would be the most un-Christian of the group, but I have an intellectual interest in lore of all sorts and I don't mind running this type of game.
I'd actually really appreciate if you, or anybody, could point me toward reading material that would better prepare me to run this kind of game.
I noticed a few things:
- if the player has a degree in history, you should better get your facts right, if not, his enjoyment could suffer (I know mine would).
I intend to work with him to work out what is and isn't tolerable to him regarding historical accuracy. He's pretty easy going so I don't expect extreme nit-picking as long as I treat it respectfully.
- Do you have other players? Ask them if they are ok with that story as well. You and your players are the only ones possibly offended (unless you go public with the story somehow, which I would not recommend), so if all participants are ok with that, it should be ok. (If things like these are ok, they I don´t find fault with your idea.
As I said above, I intend to recruit open-minded players, giving them knowledge of the concept before asking them to join. They will all know what to expect as far as themes and setting go, and I'll ask them each to treat the topic with respect before starting.
- don´t think too much in character classes when designing this story as RPG campaign - I think that your mix of classes for the three is a bit too much, I especially don´t see anything pointing to a paladin - most likely, they should be either diviners or even adepts (the NPC class), perhaps beefed up a bit. (As an aside, perhaps the whole campaign could work with NPC classes only)
The thought occurred to me almost immediately that Paladin really wouldn't be the type to fit in here. Cleric or really any of these rolls might be replaced with classes from the Testament book (which I don't have on hand), but in this game especially character creation would be subject to both my approval and that of the rest of the group.
Knowing my players, they're likely to be at least a little bored by having to play NPC classes, even if they were spiced up a bit.
- the most important decision is probably how you handle the religion(s) and its effects - are there the usual D&D clerics? I think this could ruin it for me.
The Testament d20 book has a system of Piety instead of the normal system, it's a bit more involved and oriented toward this kind of game. It also has rules and suggestions on which of the core classes to include or restrict, and how to reflavor them to work. Cleric might need to be tweaked to fit properly, but that would be done to match the group's tastes, not mine.
Otherwise, gathering the proper gifts is a nice idea for representing the usual treasure hunt differently.
Thank you, I really appreciate your and Wolfthulu's comments and opinions.
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The biggest difficulty for me in running this, would be to keep myself away from the temptation of, once they get to giving their gifts to baby Jesus, having something really bizarre and out-of-place happen. Like having a wormhole suck them out of Biblical Israel and drop them into the Material Plane of Golarion and progress into an entirely different campaign from there.
That or have them continue to quest together, eventually becoming powerful movers-and-shakers of Israel and leading them to an Epic level campaign culminating in defeating and forever destroying Lucifer.
....I had to get all of that out of my system.
I hope you post here as things progress. I too picked up Testament in the great sale too, originally with the intention of robbing it for various pieces, but I'd be interested in knowing how your experiment goes, if you don't mind sharing.
Judges is even better than Joshua!
You get war, rash vows, sex, slaughter, rape, kidnapping, seduction, betrayal, revenge,...I don't know...I think there's more drama in Judges than in Joshua. The person who gets the most coverage is Samson and he only gets three chapters...unless I'm getting too tired to think and post at the same time. Let me know if I'm missing your drift. For sure, the picture of the conquest is different, you've got that.
Now brain is receiving. Yeah, I would use Judges to fill out the feel, not overshadow the characters with npc heroes. Good point. So events, circumstances, objects, locales, etc. Since judges were really charismatic warlords who acted as judges only in a secondary role (Judge Roy Bean?), this would be a great role for characters to take. An alternative Israel, perhaps. YOU be the judge! <nudge-nudge, wink-wink>
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My drift, is that in a broader military campaign, you can hand out non-crucial people to contribute to the story, you don't have to have the PC's be any of the named characters, and thus avoid spotlighting any one person into being THE guy you know?
Samson, Gideon, Deborrah, etc etc, they're all interesting heroes, but none of them fit into a party make-up you get what I'm saying?
It's easier to use the conquest without trivializing the PC's or super focusing on one of them.
That's the kind of reasoning I was using, but again, my knowledge of the Bible is limited. I'll definitely keep this thread updated if/when I get the game started.
I second what the great leafy one stated - Judges is definitely the way to go. I do have the Testament d20 (and there is a supplement to it dealing with the Hittites) and my general understanding of it was that it was more focused on the wars of the Israelites up to the reign of the Davidic Kingdom.
I was kind of surprised to read your opening plot hook. While very well read in biblical history and theology, it does tend to be a sensitive area to cover ground on a role playing campaign. But good luck to your experiment; I definitely would like to read a follow up on how it turned out. And the heathen in me loves the idea of the wormhole where they get zapped to Golarion. ;)
RPG Superstar 2015 Top 16, RPG Superstar 2013 Top 16
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That's a really awesome idea for a game! I don't think it's at all offensive... the 3 wise men are hardly sacred cows. Now if you made Mary an aasimar paladin that might be a different story, especially if you have Catholic players. Part of the attraction of Mary and Joseph is that they aren't anybody special until the angel makes his announcement to Mary. I'd also avoid statting out Jesus; he's supposed to be ineffable. And if you aren't sure how to wrap things up after they deliver their gifts, check out the full biblical account in Matthew chapter 2, where the wise men are supposed to report the child's location to Herod but are warned not to by God in a dream.
If you want some additional literary inspiration/3 wise men flavor, check out T. S. Eliot's poem "Journey of the Magi."
Chapter 3 of the book of Judges....Ehud was brutal....pure D&D assassian.
I own Testament and have often ran campaigns based off the book of Judges.
Eric
As a Christian if a non-Christian wanted to run this type of game I would hope they could be mature and sensitive about the era. As a Soldier its annoying to play in Modern warfare campaigns with folks that dont have a clue on how the military works.
So looking at both I would hope that the Game Master would tap into the knowledge of his more informed players and maybe even do a little reserch themselves.
Playing a Biblical campaign to me feels almost like running a Star Wars Campaign where the PCs run around with Vader, Luke and Jar Jar....messes to much with Canon...excuse the pun.
Im fortunate enough to play in a group of Christians so being offensive has never been an issue...
Eric.
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Green Ronin's "Eternal Rome" would be a good addition to "Testament" if you're going to run a campaign set around those events/the 1st century AD...
Anybody more strongly anchored in Christianity (or Judaism or Islam for that matter) have any feedback or suggestions?
If you have more than 3 players, note that The Bible never says specifically that there were 3 wise men, it only says that there were 3 gifts...
It also suggests that these gifts were not presented to a new-born baby Jesus, but to a very young Jesus*, which gives you a little time to play with in the campaign (but that is perhaps splitting hairs un-necessarily)...
*= Look here...
-That One Digitalelf Fellow-
Green Ronin's "Eternal Rome" would be a good addition to "Testament" if you're going to run a campaign set around those events/the 1st century AD...
Anybody more strongly anchored in Christianity (or Judaism or Islam for that matter) have any feedback or suggestions?If you have more than 3 players, note that The Bible never says specifically that there were 3 wise men, it only says that there were 3 gifts...
It also suggests that these gifts were not presented to a new-born baby Jesus, but to a very young Jesus*, which gives you a little time to play with in the campaign (but that is perhaps splitting hairs un-necessarily)...
*= Look here...
-That One Digitalelf Fellow-
Stop being smart. :)
Eric
Hey all. Just wondered - how much of the testament book is OGL? I mean truly open game?
Been meaning to answer this previously, but haven't been home reading this thread until today. According to the credits page, it explicitly states "All text herein is desginated as Open Game Content."
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You get war, rash vows, sex, slaughter, rape, kidnapping, seduction, betrayal, revenge,...I don't know...I think there's more drama in Judges than in Joshua. The person who gets the most coverage is Samson and he only gets three chapters...unless I'm getting too tired to think and post at the same time. Let me know if I'm missing your drift. For sure, the picture of the conquest is different, you've got that.
Yeah, I used to joke with an evangelist friend of mine. He told me once that he never went to R rated movies because of all the sex and violence. He would rather stay home and read the Bible. I told him if that was the case, he should skip Judges, and the Song of Soloman.
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Overall I would just add that you should have this conversation with the potential players. I don't see anything offensive with it but I have met people who would find it offensive, both religious and athiest. I would suggest that you meet with your player and lay the idea out to them in broad strokes and see what they think.
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The biggest difficulty for me in running this, would be to keep myself away from the temptation of, once they get to giving their gifts to baby Jesus, having something really bizarre and out-of-place happen. Like having a wormhole suck them out of Biblical Israel and drop them into the Material Plane of Golarion and progress into an entirely different campaign from there.
That or have them continue to quest together, eventually becoming powerful movers-and-shakers of Israel and leading them to an Epic level campaign culminating in defeating and forever destroying Lucifer.
....I had to get all of that out of my system.
Here's a thought. Either stick with a 'real world' ideology or let the players know this is happening in a parallel world to ours where, while a lot stays the same, you can't rely on historical knowledge to be accurate. Also instead of the worm-hole thing, what about the 3 wisemen having to work behind the scenes to keep the baby from harm until he reaches maturity or even until he fulfills his role on the world. You could skip certain amounts of time and have the scene with Youth Jesus teaching the pharisees and the 3 learn of a plot to kidnap YJ.
All through the story of Jesus, even at young ages, people were trying to discredit and harm him for his position. Just make these guys more included in his life but working in the background like a personal security force and PR crew so that he can fulfill his prophesy.In the bible there are a bunch of classical stories of His works, like curing the Lepers, healing the blind, walking on water, raising the dead, etc. Create a scenario for each that could have him fail, like maybe some assassins have disguised themselves as Lepers while holding the real Lepers in a cave elsewhere (the party discovers the plot and must divert the assassins and free the Lepers to join with Jesus at a certain spot), or an evil emissary traps the soul of the person Jesus raises from the dead and the party needs to find the emissary and free the soul so that Jesus can raise up his deceased friend.....stuff like that.
You don't need total historical accuracy for stuff like that and it should be a pretty cool game. My only real fear for the game is that a player is going to die for saying "Jesus saves and takes half" for the 97th time and suffer the wrath of the other players.....
Have fun but be careful, religion is sometimes a sensitive thing for people, only you can gauge how your group will react to this stuff.
I told him if that was the case, he should skip Judges, and the Song of Solomon.
~Baum-chicka-mau-mau!~
Yeah. If the commentary I consulted on Song of Songs is on target, it's actually mind-numbingly hot, with even the best English translations calming it down considerably.
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Here's a thought. Either stick with a 'real world' ideology or let the players know this is happening in a parallel world to ours where, while a lot stays the same, you can't rely on historical knowledge to be accurate. Also instead of the worm-hole thing, what about the 3 wisemen having to work behind the scenes to keep the baby from harm until he reaches maturity or even until he fulfills his role on the world. You could skip certain amounts of time and have the scene with Youth Jesus teaching the pharisees and the 3 learn of a plot to kidnap YJ.
All through the story of Jesus, even at young ages, people were trying to discredit and harm him for his position. Just make these guys more included in his life but working in the background like a personal security force and PR crew so that he can fulfill his prophesy.
In the bible there are a bunch of classical stories of His works, like curing the Lepers, healing the blind, walking on water, raising the dead, etc. Create a scenario for each that could have him fail, like maybe some assassins have disguised themselves as Lepers while holding the real Lepers in a cave elsewhere (the party discovers the plot and must divert the assassins and free the Lepers to join with Jesus at a certain spot), or an evil emissary traps the soul of the person Jesus raises from the dead and the party needs to find the...
FH beat me to it... There is enough happening in the the story of Jesus that you could easily have these "guards" work behind the scenes for many memorable adventures.
I have 2 cautions... First, this material is actually set for an earlier time period and may require a bit of tweaking.
Second, your concept as presented does not offend me (and I am a true believer) but being sensitive at the table, to the tone might make or break this one. You know your players best. If they can do this with dignity, then run with it. It is certainly not worth breaking a good gaming group up over it.
Overall, your idea is good enough that I am jealous that I cannot play in your game!
I told him if that was the case, he should skip Judges, and the Song of Solomon.~Baum-chicka-mau-mau!~
Yeah. If the commentary I consulted on Song of Songs is on target, it's actually mind-numbingly hot, with even the best English translations calming it down considerably.
It is a very expressive - and often very explicit - testimony of love and lust between a married couple. My guess is that the point of it being there is to show there's nothing wrong with those sorts of things when in the proper place of a wedded relationship, and that the book doesn't say NO SEX EVER BAD BAD BAD.
And yeah I'm willing to wager English doesn't do it much justice. I'd have to leave it to someone who actually knows scholarly Hebrew to confirm though.
[/hijack]
I second what the great leafy one stated - Judges is definitely the way to go. I do have the Testament d20 (and there is a supplement to it dealing with the Hittites) and my general understanding of it was that it was more focused on the wars of the Israelites up to the reign of the Davidic Kingdom.
I was kind of surprised to read your opening plot hook. While very well read in biblical history and theology, it does tend to be a sensitive area to cover ground on a role playing campaign. But good luck to your experiment; I definitely would like to read a follow up on how it turned out. And the heathen in me loves the idea of the wormhole where they get zapped to Golarion. ;)
** spoiler omitted **
How can I get the supplement dealing with the Hittites and what is it's name?
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How can I get the supplement dealing with the Hittites and what is it's name?
You can find it: Here
It is for 3.0 and not 3.5 if that makes any difference...
*EDIT*
There is an adventure for Testament that was free on Green Ronin's web site, but they seem to have taken it down. It is called "The Tribulations of Kanah"...
Also, Targum Magazine supports Testament (and all the other "historical" settings as well)...
-That One Digitalelf Fellow-
How can I get the supplement dealing with the Hittites and what is it's name?You can find it: Here
It is for 3.0 and not 3.5 if that makes any difference...
-That One Digitalelf Fellow-
Thanks! It does not matter what edition it is.
Also, Targum Magazine supports Testament (and all the other "historical" settings as well)...
Are these electronic or print or both? Is it still active or defunct?
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As a Christian, I too don't see this as offensive. However, I also fully agree with the following...
Playing a Biblical campaign to me feels almost like running a Star Wars Campaign where the PCs run around with Vader, Luke and Jar Jar....messes to much with Canon...excuse the pun.
I'd be afraid that too many (or someone?) would complain about how it really wasn't that way or something similar. Some people can remove themselves enough and accept that it's a story with a different twist and some people would have some difficulty.
Fake Healer had some good ideas toward resolving that.
Good luck and let us know how it turns out.
Also, Targum Magazine supports Testament (and all the other "historical" settings as well)...Are these electronic or print or both? Is it still active or defunct?
Electronic and still around. And one of the regulars went to graduate school with me.
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Are these electronic or print or both? Is it still active or defunct?
Yeah, still around like Mairkurion said...
You cand find them Here...
-That One Digitalelf Fellow-
Hallelujah!!
This thread has returned from the grave to save us from our sins!
It's been locked away in a tomb since 2009!
That's blasphemy, please refrain.Hallelujah!!
This thread has returned from the grave to save us from our sins!
It's been locked away in a tomb since 2009!
That's not blasphemy. This is blasphemy.
Different Blasphemy,Dude.