What would be the effects of raising an Animal companions intelligence?
The druid hits level 4 and raises the Int of his companion from 2 to 3. Can the companion now learn languages?
How does this affect it's skill points?
Can it take the Linguistics skill?
How is your cat's bluff check?
An animal companion could have a 6 Int. That may not be much to us but they would be the super genius of the farm yard.
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What would be the effects of raising an Animal companions intelligence?
The druid hits level 4 and raises the Int of his companion from 2 to 3. Can the companion now learn languages?
How does this affect it's skill points?
Can it take the Linguistics skill?
How is your cat's bluff check?An animal companion could have a 6 Int. That may not be much to us but they would be the super genius of the farm yard.
My favorite Druid has an INT of 6. WIS of 19. It's fun to RP just how dumb she really is while being that wise. I don't think that an animal without vocal cords can talk, though more's the pity. (It specifies in Wildshape that a parrot's default 'language' is squawking, for example)
If they became Magical Animals, no problem.
Sentient creatures can learn languages. That does not mean they are physically able to speak languages; pegasi have human-level intelligence and understand Common, but cannot speak.
Skill points are always calculated the same way. N+Int per level, minimum 1. Animal HD granted 2+ skill points in 3.5, and I don't believe that's changed in PF. Going from 2-4 to 2-3 or 2-2 will still only net you one skill point per level. Although you could spend those skill points on Linguistics or some such, the question becomes... why bother?
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And a paladins AnCo actually starts with a six int.
What would be the effects of raising an Animal companions intelligence?
The benefit of a higher int are multifold, first off you gain the ability to learn feats not on the animal companion list. Second you may not be able to speak but you can understand a single language (most likely common) so your AnCo may not even need tricks when the int hits three although if it does, it gets more tricks as well. remember once you hit 3 int you're sentient you get an alignment and a language (just as if you had the worst luck ever on rolled stats)
The druid hits level 4 and raises the Int of his companion from 2 to 3. Can the companion now learn languages?
Yes though it may not be able to speak.
How does this affect it's skill points?
the negative mod still applies as the previous poster stated so odds are not much.
Can it take the Linguistics skill?
yes and just like a character it will learn more languages, however the speaking restriction still applies.
How is your cat's bluff check?
my cat's bluffs are pretty high, they have me convinced that they love me, but if I was the size of a mouse they'd still probably kill me in a heartbeat so I don't think they really do.
An animal companion could have a 6 Int. That may not be much to us but they would be the super genius of the farm yard.
See above.
They may not be able to speak but that does not mean they can not communicate. What's that Lassie? Jimmy fell down the well again?
I was going to give the Animal Companion a free language at 3 Int and a +1 skill point per level for each point over 2. Normally an AnimCo gets 16 skill points so the +1 per int point is a huge big deal. Our druid is going to max out the Linguistics skill on her raptor.
High Int/linguistics would be great for a flying Animal companion. They could be used as a spy. The animal can't give away any secrets if caught but the druid can always cast speak with animals and get all the latest gossip.
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They may not be able to speak but that does not mean they can not communicate. What's that Lassie? Jimmy fell down the well again?
I was going to give the Animal Companion a free language at 3 Int and a +1 skill point per level for each point over 2. Normally an AnimCo gets 16 skill points so the +1 per int point is a huge big deal. Our druid is going to max out the Linguistics skill on her raptor.
I wouldn't do a +1 skill point, if a player had a fighter with an int of 3 would you let him ignore the rules and get extra skillpoints if he raised it to 4? the benefits of AnCo are allready pretty strong, and the benefit of being able to learn any feats (not just the limited AnCo feats) is downright sick. an extra skillpoint is needless gravy. And the raptor can still put points in linguistics without it. as for the language, yeah that's already a benefit, don't forget to give it an alignment too, even if it stays neutral it does so by choice.
wouldn't do a +1 skill point, if a player had a fighter with an int of 3 would you let him ignore the rules and get extra skillpoints if he raised it to 4? the benefits of AnCo are allready pretty strong, and the benefit of being able to learn any feats (not just the limited AnCo feats) is downright sick. an extra skillpoint is needless gravy. And the raptor can still put points in linguistics without it. as for the language, yeah that's already a benefit, don't forget to give it an alignment too, even if it stays neutral it does so by choice.
If the fighter started out as a Wolf? Yes.
I like it as an alternative to just tossing the ability score increases into Str.
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wouldn't do a +1 skill point, if a player had a fighter with an int of 3 would you let him ignore the rules and get extra skillpoints if he raised it to 4? the benefits of AnCo are allready pretty strong, and the benefit of being able to learn any feats (not just the limited AnCo feats) is downright sick. an extra skillpoint is needless gravy. And the raptor can still put points in linguistics without it. as for the language, yeah that's already a benefit, don't forget to give it an alignment too, even if it stays neutral it does so by choice.If the fighter started out as a Wolf? Yes.
I like it as an alternative to just tossing the ability score increases into Str.
a paladin AnCo starts with an int of 6, are you gonna give them 4 extra SP per hitdie, if they give them a +4 int item then they'll have an int of 10, then they'll be getting 6 skill points per hit die. on top of all the other benefits of a human int. There are a lot of benefits allready to an int of 3, giving it extra goodies for not being thrown into strength just seems unnecessary, I mean they can learn ANY feat, I'd take that over a +1 boost to strength any day, they no longer need tricks because they can understand language and do what you tell them. Even if they do need a trick they get more anyways. This is on top of the benefits of being an AnCo anyways, I mean it's your game obviously, but I just think it's needless overkill.
And if the fighter started out as human for some reason he can't learn as well as the wolf?
A human with a 6 Int has trouble tying his own shoes.
A wolf with a 6 Int will be designing rocket packs to chase down road runners.
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Its definitely an interesting way of getting round the requirement for a high charisma and a good handle animal skill if your animal companion can understand your verbal commands with 100% success.
I might have to mention this to one of my players who totally forgot about the need for a good charisma for his dwarf druid and ended up with a 6 Cha! :)
Its definitely an interesting way of getting round the requirement for a high charisma and a good handle animal skill if your animal companion can understand your verbal commands with 100% success.
I might have to mention this to one of my players who totally forgot about the need for a good charisma for his dwarf druid and ended up with a 6 Cha! :)
"HEY YOU!!! YOU MANGY STINKING WOLF, GO NOW AND SCOUT THE AREA BEFORE I BEAT YOU!!!"
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Its definitely an interesting way of getting round the requirement for a high charisma and a good handle animal skill if your animal companion can understand your verbal commands with 100% success.
I might have to mention this to one of my players who totally forgot about the need for a good charisma for his dwarf druid and ended up with a 6 Cha! :)
"HEY YOU!!! YOU MANGY STINKING WOLF, GO NOW AND SCOUT THE AREA BEFORE I BEAT YOU!!!"
LOL the dwarf probably smells worse than his Animal Companion :)
That is a bit of a weird loophole.
If the Animal Companion has to keep to the standard rules, then it would technically become a Magical Beast when it hits 3+ Int.
This means they would be getting extra hitpoints (d10 instead of d8), and extra BAB (full instead of 3/4). Otherwise, their other stats are the same (well, languages and chosen alignment notwithstanding).
However, the Paladin's Animal Companion is considered to be "unusually intelligent" with a score of 6, and no mention of a creature type change.
It also specifically mentions the druid's animal companion.
So my gut feeling here is that the class entry for the bonded mount and animal companions are detailing exactly what you get from the class ability. If something moves outside the normal standard rules, well, this is a specific rule for this situation (class ability vs standard creature rules), so we go by the specific rule: animal has higher than the "usual" Intelligence, but stays an animal.
It does open the doors though... access to Vital Strike is a wonderful thing.
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So is it a definite that an animal companion that gets bumped to an INT of 3 can understand a language?
How does having an INT of 3 affect an animal companion as far as skill tricks go? Do the tricks just 'go away' since the companion can now understand a language?
This seems like a peculiar loophole to me. I'm sure the intent was not to have animal companions suddenly become magical beasts, but I'm also sure that tricks shouldn't vanish and become irrelevant as soon as you get the INT to 3 or higher since they can understand spoken word.
Would a smarter animal be able to learn more tricks or something?
This feels like a gap in the rules, so I'm just sort of looking for clarification. My ranger is about to level and get a smarter than average pet, so this has become somewhat important for the campaign...
What a nice surprise. ^^
I wondered about that on my own some time ago, since I had to design a villain for my group who was supposed to have "a fiendishly clever giant black tiger" as an animal companion. Him being quite high in level, I put all the AnCo's extra stats in Int, ending up at 6 Int.
I checked the book and found nothing against doing such a thing. After all, the wording "an animal companion with an intelligence score above 2 may put ranks in any skill/may learn any feat" (or somesuch) has to be there for a reason - and not just because of those pesky paladins. ;-)
I don't know where I read it, but all in all and in accordance with the rules, I allow any Animal Companions with an Int of 3 or higher to understand ONE language of the player's choice (the character must know this one language) and, since it can now put ranks in Linguistics, also acquire additional languages of the player's choice (again, the character should know these languages, as he'll be the one training his furry friend in them).
The animal doesn't evolve new vocal cords, of course, so conversation may be a bit onesided, to say the least. The poor beasty also is not very bright and even dumber than your average ogre at Int 3, so I keep that in mind when roleplaying an Animal Companion's responses.
I don't change the animal companion's alignment, since it will still see the world in matters of predator and prey or whatever, it is just smarter than average and better able to follow it's master's commands.
Eavesdropping is hard for someone who doesn't get each and every piece of information out of a conversation and even with Int 3, an animal doesn't have eidetic memory - far from that, actually!
Concerning the "superfluous" tricks and stuff for an animal companion with Int 3 or higher: at effective druid level 4, your animal companion receives it's first stat increase. At this point, it will (hopefully) already know 8 of the teachable tricks from the Handle Animal list(if it has an Int score of 2 to begin with). Staying within the rules, it will now be able to learn 3 additional tricks (3 per point of Int, all in all) and know 11 out of 12 available tricks. At 6th level, he'll be able to do them all anyway (3 bonus tricks plus 3x3tricks for Int score) - simply choose the one trick he doesn't "know" until then and let him have to be pushed to perform that one, as per the rules. Not a big problem, since you also get a bonus on those checks anyway.
All in all, I don't see much of a problem with all that.
Unless, of course, your character is found wanting in terms of cleverness... by your own pet. o_O
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What a nice surprise. ^^
I wondered about that on my own some time ago, since I had to design a villain for my group who was supposed to have "a fiendishly clever giant black tiger" as an animal companion. Him being quite high in level, I put all the AnCo's extra stats in Int, ending up at 6 Int.
I checked the book and found nothing against doing such a thing. After all, the wording "an animal companion with an intelligence score above 2 may put ranks in any skill/may learn any feat" (or somesuch) has to be there for a reason - and not just because of those pesky paladins. ;-)I don't know where I read it, but all in all and in accordance with the rules, I allow any Animal Companions with an Int of 3 or higher to understand ONE language of the player's choice (the character must know this one language) and, since it can now put ranks in Linguistics, also acquire additional languages of the player's choice (again, the character should know these languages, as he'll be the one training his furry friend in them).
The animal doesn't evolve new vocal cords, of course, so conversation may be a bit onesided, to say the least. The poor beasty also is not very bright and even dumber than your average ogre at Int 3, so I keep that in mind when roleplaying an Animal Companion's responses.
I don't change the animal companion's alignment, since it will still see the world in matters of predator and prey or whatever, it is just smarter than average and better able to follow it's master's commands.Eavesdropping is hard for someone who doesn't get each and every piece of information out of a conversation and even with Int 3, an animal doesn't have eidetic memory - far from that, actually!
Concerning the "superfluous" tricks and stuff for an animal companion with Int 3 or higher: at effective druid level 4, your animal companion receives it's first stat increase. At this point, it will (hopefully) already know 8 of the teachable tricks from the Handle Animal list(if it has an Int score of 2 to begin with). Staying...
Well, fortunately my elf is somewhat on the clever side, so all should be fine from that standpoint ;)
That sounds like the best way to handle this vague rules gap. I recall from core 3.5 that extra stat points equated to extra tricks, and although it's not spelled out (that I've found) it seems implied that you get three tricks per INT point.
The understanding language part did throw me off a bit; I may have to run this by my DM. It makes sense to me, in a cinematic fashion, so I can probably get it allowed.
With the Ogre analogy though, keep in mind that Ogres are also sorely lacking in WIS, not just INT. Most of the companion animals are rather wise, so at least they can avoid obvious threats.
Can an animal increase its Intelligence when it gains an
ability score increase at every 4 Hit Dice? If its Int increases
beyond 2, does it become a magical beast?The Sage recommends that the DM not allow an animal (or
any nonintelligent creature) to increase its Intelligence via HD
advancement except as a very special case. Even the biggest
18-HD viper in the jungle shouldn’t be able to have an
Intelligence of 4.
Regardless, an animal’s type doesn’t change simply due to
an Intelligence increase.
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Normally I am all for quoting the 3.5 FAQ if the language between 3.5 and the Pathfinder RPG has not changed or has changed in a very minor way. In this case, I would actually argue against using the old FAQ ruling due to this new text:
Skills: This lists the animal's total skill ranks. Animal companions can assign skill ranks to any skill listed under Animal Skills. If an animal companion increases its Intelligence to 10 or higher, it gains bonus skill ranks as normal. Animal companions with an Intelligence of 3 or higher can purchase ranks in any skill. An animal companion cannot have more ranks in a skill than it has Hit Dice.
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Can an animal increase its Intelligence when it gains an
ability score increase at every 4 Hit Dice? If its Int increases
beyond 2, does it become a magical beast?The Sage recommends that the DM not allow an animal (or
any nonintelligent creature) to increase its Intelligence via HD
advancement except as a very special case. Even the biggest
18-HD viper in the jungle shouldn’t be able to have an
Intelligence of 4.
Regardless, an animal’s type doesn’t change simply due to
an Intelligence increase.
I think that Animal Companions constitute a special case. It's even mentioned in the core PRPG that companions can have their INT boosted.
Can an animal increase its Intelligence when it gains an
ability score increase at every 4 Hit Dice? If its Int increases
beyond 2, does it become a magical beast?The Sage recommends that the DM not allow an animal (or
any nonintelligent creature) to increase its Intelligence via HD
advancement except as a very special case. Even the biggest
18-HD viper in the jungle shouldn’t be able to have an
Intelligence of 4.
Regardless, an animal’s type doesn’t change simply due to
an Intelligence increase.
A regular animal, and an animal companion are not in the same category.
Normally I am all for quoting the 3.5 FAQ if the language between 3.5 and the Pathfinder RPG has not changed or has changed in a very minor way. In this case, I would actually argue against using the old FAQ ruling due to this new text:
Skills: This lists the animal's total skill ranks. Animal companions can assign skill ranks to any skill listed under Animal Skills. If an animal companion increases its Intelligence to 10 or higher, it gains bonus skill ranks as normal. Animal companions with an Intelligence of 3 or higher can purchase ranks in any skill. An animal companion cannot have more ranks in a skill than it has Hit Dice.
True, but I don't think they should be allowed to gain their INT through normal advancement. I would rule that they can wear an INT boosting item so that they can gain the abilities through magical means, but to have an animal suddenly understand language is a bit hard to imagine.
Just found the place:
On page 97, left-hand paragraph on the bottom of the page, it is said that "An animal with an Intelligence score of 1 can learn a maximum of three tricks, while an animal with an Intelligence of 2 can learn a maximum of six tricks."
Extrapolate, repeat.
Also, reverse the statement from page 16, bottom right side:
"Any creature capable of understanding speech has a score of at least 3."
So, if you've got Int 3, you'll be fine learning a language - if someone teaches you.
And of course your (non-)regular animal companion is wiser than an ogre - those don't go around learning tricks and looking cute with their heads cocked to one side begging for treats. Ogres just smash things.
(dammit, now I've got pictures in my head... >.< )
Auntie Edith says:
An animal companion doesn't suddenly understand a language - it's either been part of your adventuring group for some time (and believe me, any dog UNDERSTANDS what "treat" means without being specifically told and usually reads his family just fine to NOT come out from under the bed when you want to go to the V.E.T., I mean for a walk. *coughs*) and been able to pick up some bits of speech OR it has been sent to you from Mother Nature through your extra-chocolatey mystical connection with sprinkles on top to serve as your companion in any way possible.
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An animal companion doesn't suddenly understand a language - it's either been part of your adventuring group for some time (and believe me, any dog UNDERSTANDS what "treat" means without being specifically told and usually reads his family just fine to NOT come out from under the bed when you want to go to the V.E.T., I mean for a walk. *coughs*)
The smartest dog in the world understood roughly 200 words of German in 2004, and was picking up new words with the facility of a 3-year-old child. ANY dog, being a dog, and thus having coevolved with humans for the last 40,000+ years, reads human body language to a degree that even human professionals in the field envy.
I'd allow animal companions to gain Int stat, understand (but not speak) the basics of whichever language it's been most exposed to, and go from there.
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The rules are pretty generous when it comes to Animal Companions gaining Intelligence through HD advancement.
When the Animal Companion hits 4-HD and is given 3 Int, you may teach it any skill or feat that it qualifies for. It can not speak a language, but it can understand one if given a rank in Linguistics.
If your animal companion is a parrot, then I recommend you spend one of its tricks so that it can learn to speak. Then you can have an awesome pirate-druid.
take an ape companion, increase the Int, teach it sign language and get it to take simple weapon proficiency for its next feat. get some custom no armor check penalty light armor (mithral shirt, masterwork studded leather) and go to town.
either that or just take leadership and get a barbarian cohort.
Just found the place:
On page 97, left-hand paragraph on the bottom of the page, it is said that "An animal with an Intelligence score of 1 can learn a maximum of three tricks, while an animal with an Intelligence of 2 can learn a maximum of six tricks."
Extrapolate, repeat.
I am not sure I agree with this. RAW doesn't say anything about extrapolating beyond Int 2.
There is no text that I can find anywhere that talks about tricks after INT 2...
I think this is unanswered and I would like find what they really wanted on this.
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Why would you give something childlike intelligence. That will be the last time it does anything you want, now it can understand and hate you :) congrats and get ready for the kitty sneak pounce attack when you fail to treat it good enough. Understanding doesnt mean it will do what you ask, that's what Handel animal is for.