Fighter's Armor Training


Rules Questions


Just a quick question: Does Armor Training affect all armor worn or just one piece of armor at a time (suit or shield).

For example, my 3rd level Fighter is wearing scale mail and uses a large steel shield +1.

With Armor Training 1 does it affect the armor, the shield or both at once? Logic tells me both since the description didn't specify, but I'm asking to make sure before I teach my self to do it one way then have to reteach myself later.


I could be wrong here, but I believe it applies to the total.

For example, if you had Armor Training 3 and your shield gave you a -1 and your armor a -2 you could negate it all.

If somebody else wishes to prove me wrong please do so, I'd rather not be mistaken about this lol.


The PRD says under Armor Training, "Whenever he is wearing armor, he reduces the armor check penalty by 1 (to a minimum of 0) and increases the maximum Dexterity bonus allowed by his armor by 1."

I think "the armor check penalty" means "the armor check penalty of the armor." It doesn't mention shields at all; I imagine if they'd meant for it to apply to shields they would've explicitly said so.

However, I think I'd allow it to apply to shields as well since I can't see it being too powerful.


Me, I see the armor check penalty from shields as being caused by totally different circumstances than the armor check penalty from armor.

With shields, you have a big bulky thing strapped to your arm. If you try to jump, it weighs you down. Hard to be acrobatic with this big old thing getting in the way all the time. Forget about swimming. It gets in the way of climbing, too. Basically, if you have to move your arms to perform a skill, but you have that big old heavy thing strapped to your arm, it's going to get in the way.

Armor, on the other hand (no pun intended), is a whole different story. It's heavy and hot and sweaty. It chafes. It pinches. It restricts the movement of all of your big joints: hips, knees, shoulders, elbows. But, it doesn't clunk around and get in your way when you do things the way a shield does.

So, with armor training, you learn how to wear it better, acclimate yourself to the heat, strap down or bend or fold or snip away the bits that pinch or chafe, build the endurance to wear it without wearing yourself out.

None of that helps you with shields; those big old bulky things will always get in your way when you're doing stuff, no matter how trained you are.

Or so I believe.


Well I cant find anything in the RAW that suggests either way, but I would think that could compensate for big clunky shields just as well as body armor.


This is a little off-topic, but I've found that only poorly made, ill-fitting, or ill-fitted armor actually chafes, pinches, and significantly restricts movement. The exception would be the freedom of movement for plate, and even then it's actually better than you'd think. Remember that historically, the people wearing armor generally had it custom made or fitted for themselves, and everybody who wore it on a regular basis quickly learned how to adjust the straps and so on.

The closest modern analog is tailor-made clothing, such as executive business suits. They fit really well because an expert makes it to the exact specifications of the wearer. Remember that historically one didn't pay the armorer for the AC bonus, they paid for the freedom of movement to fight effectively while getting the AC bonus.

Like a lot of medieval roleplayers I'm only an armchair historian on this subject (and actual historians disagree on it often enough). Still, I've actually worn armor of a couple of different kinds, and I've been surprised at how good it can feel. I once tried on a coat of plates (not plate armor, a coat of plates is a different animal; google it) that had attached articulated steel elbow and shoulder joints, and I was amazed at the freedom of movement I did have. Granted, I only tried on the top half; for all I know the parts that really hamper skills are all below the waist.

I will add though that I've seen a tournament fight between opponents clad in plate armor, at a historical western martial arts event, and they were somewhat clumsy. This would be the difference between a full-time warrior and a modern man taking a weekend or two to play at swords now and again. :'P

Anyway, the armor check penalty does need to be there despite all this, because I think the armor is still heavy and possibly noisy depending on the type. Moreover the weight is in uniquely disadvantageous places. Swimming is harder in armor in part because the weight on your arms is making the circular motions that much more difficult.

Now, why doesn't the armor check penalty apply to attack rolls, given that swinging your arm is about the same motion regardless if it's moving steel or water? Only the culturally appropriate regional deities can say. :'P

PS - My favorite part of wearing armor was getting slugged a few times with the big rattan bat and then feeling invincible when I realized there was no pain. I gained an insight into the "courage" of medieval warriors right then. :]

Community / Forums / Pathfinder / Pathfinder First Edition / Rules Questions / Fighter's Armor Training All Messageboards

Want to post a reply? Sign in.