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I have a sorcerer that just turned level 3. He has taken the Draconic bloodline that scores "Mage Armor" as his level 3 bonus spell. However, he decided to take "Mage Armor" when he was level 1. I realize that this is OK as written, and he'll realize zero benefit from the bonus spell at 3rd level.
The question is this: At level 4, a sorcerer can unlearn a spell and learn a new one in its place. Using the example provided above, would it be breaking the rules to, at 4th level, unlearn the "Mage Armor" spell taken at 1st level, learn a new spell in it's place, and then relearn (or regain as it were) the bloodline bonus spell "Mage Armor"?
Thanks in advance!
Director of Brand Strategy
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Seems balanced to me. If it were my campaign, I might even let the player retrain the mage armor he learned at first level at third. The bonus spells are part of the balance of the class, so having someone just miss out because they already know it seems like it's going against that goal.
Yeah, I'd allow that as a DM. No problem.
Yeah, I'd allow that as a DM. No problem.
Especially since their bonus spells come 2 levels too late
Yeah, I'd allow that as a DM. No problem.Especially since their bonus spells come 2 levels too late
Well, wizards can cast four spells of the next level, while sorcerers get 2 spells of the highest level they can cast.
Balanced, right?
I handle it like this: If you choose a bonus spell before you get it as a bonus spell, you can immediately choose any other spell (of the same or lower level) in its place.
It's fine, basically he 'knows' the spell twice and is retraining it once.
Personally, I would let him retrain it at 3rd level when he gains the bonus spell known. (Ninjaed by Kaeyos)
House-ruling, I agree with Kae/Dennis here...
Per RAW, you at least get to re-learn it the very next level.
FYI, the final RAW here is a specific change from Beta:
In Beta, there was a restriction on "re-learning" spells such that it only applied to spells ~2 (I can't remember) Spell Levels below your max Spell Level. I specifically brought up this scenario during the playtest because under the Beta restriction, you would have AT LEAST 1 less Spell Known for ~2 more spell levels (and for 8-9th Level Spells, there WAS no solution).
He can always trade one out for another 1st level spell, perhaps shield?
Per RAW, he can't ALWAYS trade one out, only at 4th level and every 2 levels afterward.
FYI, the final RAW here is a specific change from Beta:
The wording in the beta was carry over from 3.5 I know a few folks commented on this at the time because then you'd have been stuck with a double known spell for 3 levels.
The wording in the beta was carry over from 3.5 I know a few folks commented on this at the time because then you'd have been stuck with a double known spell for 3 levels.FYI, the final RAW here is a specific change from Beta:
In my campaign, I just shifted all of the spells down 2 levels so that the sorceror gets them at the appropriate level, effectively a bonus spell learned from the bloodline, like a cleric domain spell. Nobody (including the party wizard) has complained so far...
I handle it like this: If you choose a bonus spell before you get it as a bonus spell, you can immediately choose any other spell (of the same or lower level) in its place.
This is how I would handle it.
In my campaign, I just shifted all of the spells down 2 levels so that the sorceror gets them at the appropriate level, effectively a bonus spell learned from the bloodline, like a cleric domain spell. Nobody (including the party wizard) has complained so far...The wording in the beta was carry over from 3.5 I know a few folks commented on this at the time because then you'd have been stuck with a double known spell for 3 levels.FYI, the final RAW here is a specific change from Beta:
We wanted them moved 3 levels down and sorcerers given a bonus spell per day at the same level wizards get theirs. So basically sorcerers would advance along with wizards in spell level but not get to choose their first spell of the highest level.
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Owner - D20 Hobbies
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would it be breaking the rules to, at 4th level, unlearn the "Mage Armor" spell taken at 1st level, learn a new spell in it's place, and then relearn (or regain as it were) the bloodline bonus spell "Mage Armor"?
There is no RAW on this, since the rules don't discuss what happens when you learn the spell twice.
I believe most DM's would allow it.