
Sean FitzSimon |

The Player's Handbook II offered an interesting variant on wild shape that allowed you to have an inferior version of wild shape at will. You gave up your animal companion, wild shape, and the ability to speak or cast spells while in your animal forms, but you could shift at will as a swift action.
This was back in the days of stat replacement, which is what largely made this version of the druid inferior. Now that druids are gaining size bonuses to their base stats, the two seem roughly on par. These are the advantages and disadvantages I'm seeing with either choice:
Wild Shape Advantages:
-Many forms offer more than 2 attacks.
-Nearly all forms offer a variety of improvements, from movement to special abilities (Poison, low-light vision, scent)
-You can cast spells while in your forms (Natural Spell)
-Gear remains functional (amulet of natural armor, gloves of mighty fists, wilding armor)
-Natural Bond offers a decent source of flanking/damage (animal companion) or additional spellcasting punch (domain).
-Size bonuses to stats stack easily with enhancement bonuses from spells and equipment.
Shapeshift Advantages:
-Unlimited uses of the forms means you can swap between forms during a fight, and never have to worry about your inability to speak.
-Shifting is a swift action, so you can shift out to cast and shift back to fight.
-Comes with a built-in enhancement bonus to your attacks equal to 1/4 your druid level.
-Additional tactical advantages with the concept of switching between predator (fast movement speed/mobility) and aerial (flight) to move around the battlefield.
-Available from level 1.
Wild Shape Disadvantages:
-Limited uses early in game subtract from your shifting abilities.
-Speaking while in wild shape form is still a gigantic issue (for the talkative sorts)
-Size bonuses are much lower than bonuses received by Shapeshift.
Shapeshift Disadvantages:
-Bonuses are to strength, a single save, and natural armor.
-Size changes are dependent on your original size, which removes the advantages from playing small races.
-Your bonuses to strength are enhancement, removing the ability to benefit from Bull's Strength or similar.
-All gear becomes nonfunctional when shapeshifted, requiring you to become entirely reliant on shapeshifting bonuses and spell-based (non enhancement) buffs.
-The loss of your animal companion/bonus domain sucks.
-You have no ability to function in an aquatic setting. At level 16 you can take Elemental Fury form, but it doesn't grant a swim speed (only the ability to not breathe).
Anyways, what do y'all think? I think they're mostly on par at this point.

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Shapeshifting is 2345357568765432 times less bookkeeping.
Which isn't necessarily a feature. I hated Shapeshifting, but that is an opinion. I also never had a problem with doing all the bookkeeping up front in the form of pre-calculated openoffice spreadsheets with all the info for each form handy (and never taking a form I didn't have precalculated.) So in effect, I have zero bookkeeping and zero seconds additional time in figuring the effects of the shape. If you planned to be a wild shape class, you need to handle this in a way your rounds still take 60 seconds or less and you are accurate in game.

Gamender |
Shapeshifting is 2345357568765432 times less bookkeeping.
Less bookkeeping maybe, but with the new wildshape, bookkeeping is considerably less than before.
As for shapeshift, the loss of gear and animal companion at the same time hurts a little too much for it to compare well with normal wildshape. Plus, it shoehorns you too much to specific forms per level. Once you get elemental fury form, I doubt you'd still want to take predator form or ferocious slayer form.

A Man In Black RPG Superstar 2010 Top 32 |
Plus, it shoehorns you too much to specific forms per level. Once you get elemental fury form, I doubt you'd still want to take predator form or ferocious slayer form.
After level 6, assuming you don't ever spend any time underwater (in which case Shapeshifting is just screwed), PF druids have Dire Tiger form, whatever their largest air elemental form is, and whatever their largest earth elemental form is. Those three forms overshadow everything else in core.

Gamender |
Gamender wrote:Plus, it shoehorns you too much to specific forms per level. Once you get elemental fury form, I doubt you'd still want to take predator form or ferocious slayer form.After level 6, assuming you don't ever spend any time underwater (in which case Shapeshifting is just screwed), PF druids have Dire Tiger form, whatever their largest air elemental form is, and whatever their largest earth elemental form is. Those three forms overshadow everything else in core.
True enough for those specific shapes. However, going for your three choices, a dire tiger (Beast Shape) maintains its effectiveness even with an air or earth elemental around. Item effects still cover for your weaker wildshapes if you absolutely must (want to) go for them.
Elemental Fury form could be enough to cover the loss of all your item effects at level 16, but changing into an eagle or a wolf, or even a dire tiger for even a round would still be highly suicidal.

A Man In Black RPG Superstar 2010 Top 32 |
True enough for those specific shapes. However, going for your three choices, a dire tiger (Beast Shape) maintains its effectiveness even with an air or earth elemental around. Item effects still cover for your weaker wildshapes if you absolutely must (want to) go for them.
Elemental Fury form could be enough to cover the loss of all your item effects at level 16, but changing into an eagle or a wolf, or even a dire tiger for even a round would still be highly suicidal.
At level 16, without a very large investment in protective items or wild breastplate/full plate, a PF druid does not want to turn into a dire tiger (let alone anything else) anywhere that an enemy can beat on them, except that they don't have an elemental fury form with +16 AC.

Gamender |
At level 16, without a very large investment in protective items or wild breastplate/full plate, a PF druid does not want to turn into a dire tiger (let alone anything else) anywhere that an enemy can beat on them, except that they don't have an elemental fury form with +16 AC.
Wildshape isn't completely about fighting in melee, which shapeshift is. All the forms of wildshape will still give you something even up to level 16 and past that. If a wildshape druid really wanted to melee, he'd invest on items just as you said and be good at it. If not, I'm sure he'll find some use for fly/burrow/swim speed, scent, dr, regeneration and so on. I know I would.
Elemental Fury would be a monster in melee, I've conceded to that, but then you'd just have a larger kind of fighter.

deClench |

I've always loved druids. Probably my favorite class. Wild shape's always been fun.
BUT, I have to say, the shapeshift variant made my game experience with druids so much better. Nothing derails me faster these days than endless bookkeeping, so that absolutely is a feature of shapeshift. AND, really, even if weaker or less versatile by the numbers, being able to change at will an unlimited number of times per day. Brilliant!

A Man In Black RPG Superstar 2010 Top 32 |
A Man In Black wrote:At level 16, without a very large investment in protective items or wild breastplate/full plate, a PF druid does not want to turn into a dire tiger (let alone anything else) anywhere that an enemy can beat on them, except that they don't have an elemental fury form with +16 AC.Wildshape isn't completely about fighting in melee, which shapeshift is. All the forms of wildshape will still give you something even up to level 16 and past that. If a wildshape druid really wanted to melee, he'd invest on items just as you said and be good at it.
But if a shapeshifter wanted to make use of a role other than elemental in melee, then they'd make the same investment.
My point is that both are the same in that they have multiple forms which are okay in a fight at mid levels, and then at high levels, keeping those mid-level forms viable requires a large investment (albeit a different investment for each). Shapeshifting has an advantage that it also has a more-versatile form that just plain works without that investment (PF druids can turn into a tendriculos, but it can't fly and is a big ugly plant and isn't as much in a fight).

kyrt-ryder |
My wife uses Shapeshift for our game under 3.5, and will continue to do so going forward. I've houseruled it in as not losing Nature Bond anymore. The shapeshift forms really aren't all that overpowered. You're giving up versatility for more use per day. It's an even enough trade.
Have you considerred also allowing items to work? Obviously enhancement items wouldn't because the shapeshift forms grant enhancement bonuses, but PF wildshape allows items to continue to work, and I'm sure there are a good number of magic items her shapeshifter could benefit from.

mdt |

mdt wrote:My wife uses Shapeshift for our game under 3.5, and will continue to do so going forward. I've houseruled it in as not losing Nature Bond anymore. The shapeshift forms really aren't all that overpowered. You're giving up versatility for more use per day. It's an even enough trade.Have you considerred also allowing items to work? Obviously enhancement items wouldn't because the shapeshift forms grant enhancement bonuses, but PF wildshape allows items to continue to work, and I'm sure there are a good number of magic items her shapeshifter could benefit from.
I've been thinking about allowing a 5,000gp enhancement to be added to any piece of equipment (except armor, that's what Beastskin is for) called Wild. So a Wild Amulet of Natural Armor would continue to function, but it costs 5,000gp more than normal. That would be balanced, I think. There are some advantages to the shapeshift, and since I'm no longer taking the nature's bond (animal companion) for it, I think giving her items too would be too much in the other direction.

Sean FitzSimon |

I've been thinking about allowing a 5,000gp enhancement to be added to any piece of equipment (except armor, that's what Beastskin is for) called Wild. So a Wild Amulet of Natural Armor would continue to function, but it costs 5,000gp more than normal. That would be balanced, I think. There are some advantages to the shapeshift, and since I'm no longer taking the nature's bond (animal companion) for it, I think giving her items too would be too much in the other direction.
Honestly, I would probably take away the +1/4 level enhancement bonus to attacks/damage then. It seems to have been added because you couldn't cast (greater) magic fang on yourself, since you'd need to be in wild form to cast it. If you're letting them cast while shaped, it's probably a good idea to take that away.

mdt |

mdt wrote:I've been thinking about allowing a 5,000gp enhancement to be added to any piece of equipment (except armor, that's what Beastskin is for) called Wild. So a Wild Amulet of Natural Armor would continue to function, but it costs 5,000gp more than normal. That would be balanced, I think. There are some advantages to the shapeshift, and since I'm no longer taking the nature's bond (animal companion) for it, I think giving her items too would be too much in the other direction.Honestly, I would probably take away the +1/4 level enhancement bonus to attacks/damage then. It seems to have been added because you couldn't cast (greater) magic fang on yourself, since you'd need to be in wild form to cast it. If you're letting them cast while shaped, it's probably a good idea to take that away.
Yeah, I had houseruled you could cast in shapeshift, if you had the feat that lets you cast in wildshape, and already did away with the +1/4 level enhancement bonus to attacks/damage.

Nero24200 |

Shapeshifting gets my attention, partly because of the fact that it's avaliable from level 1, which is always a plus for me (I always perfer signiture class features to be avaliable as soon as possible for a class).
Though the lack of variety can be a bummer. It does make a sky or ocean oreinted druid less appealing since you have you house-rule flight and swimming.

mdt |

Shapeshifting gets my attention, partly because of the fact that it's avaliable from level 1, which is always a plus for me (I always perfer signiture class features to be avaliable as soon as possible for a class).
Though the lack of variety can be a bummer. It does make a sky or ocean oreinted druid less appealing since you have you house-rule flight and swimming.
They get an avian form at level 6.