ok, I'll buy that but then the +22 jump mod seems questionable
Acrobatics +10 (+22 jump)
They probably left out the Run bonus to jump checks since it's situational (running start only). So +22 would be correct (+10 base, +12 for 60' speed).
Page 9 reviewed. I agree with chopswil's assessment of the following mathematical errors:
Girallon
Hell Hound, Nessian
Leech Swarm
Mephit
Naga, Spirit
Oni, Ogre Mage
Pegasus
Rat Swarm
Spectre
Treant
Will-O’-Wisp
Wraith
Xill
I disagree with the following, as they were found with the assumption that the Run feat boosts Acrobatics skill. Once that is accounted for, these balance:
Hell Hound
Lion, Dire
Nightmare, Cauchemar
Tiger, Dire
Also, the following monsters list a correct value on their Skills line, but have a different/incorrect value in the stat block preamble:
Ogre
Mimic
Will-O’Wisp
I'll give a few other comments their own posts.
Girallon p. 154, skill point issue
If I use my last skill point for Climb, which is a class skill, I'll get 4 more to an already +11 for +15
SB says +14
skill points = 7
used = 6Climb +11 = +0 ranks, +4 Str, +8 extra mods
Perception +11 = +4 ranks, +1 Wis, +3 class skill, +3 extra mods
Stealth +5 = +3 ranks, +3 Dex, +3 class skill, -4 extra mods
While I agree that the Climb skill is not correct, your skill point math is wonky… You’ve used all 7 skill points.
Nightmare, Cauchemar p.216, skill point issue
unused skill points
skill points = 126
used = 122Acrobatics +19 = +10 ranks, +2 Dex, +3 class skill, +4 extra mods
Bluff +18 = +14 ranks, +1 Cha, +3 class skill
Fly +19 = +14 ranks, +2 Dex, +3 class skill
Intimidate +18 = +14 ranks, +1 Cha, +3 class skill
Knowledge (arcana) +20 = +14 ranks, +3 Int, +3 class skill
Knowledge (planes) +20 = +14 ranks, +3 Int, +3 class skill
Perception +22 = +14 ranks, +1 Wis, +3 class skill, +4 extra mods
Sense Motive +22 = +14 ranks, +1 Wis, +3 class skill, +4 extra mods
Stealth +11 = +14 ranks, +2 Dex, +3 class skill, -8 extra mods
As I noted above, this is a run-feat->acrobatics-skill error, not a problem with the SB.
However, the listing of its CMD is strange. Most 4 legged creatures have a 4 point bonus to their CMD vs. trip, expressed as
CMD 10 (14 vs. trip) for instance.
Instead this guy lists CMD 38 (+2 vs. trip)
Both the bonus and the format are unexpected.
Out of curiosity, was it an intentional decision to not give sahuagin the amphibious quality? Their depictions in text and art still give the appearance of creatures notorious for above-water raids.
>>> COUATL <<<
I disagree*waiting for shocked gasps to die down...*
Modified below, this uses all 4 theme-appropriate skills, does not violate Max Ranks = Hit Dice, and also uses up all skill points:
#Acrobatics +18
*Bluff +9
#Diplomacy +18
@Fly +20
Knowledge (arcana) +9
#Knowledge (religion) +12
*Perception +23
*Sense Motive +15
Spellcraft +15
Survival +16
#Use Magic Device +18Breaking down:
Acrobatics +18 = +12 ranks, +3 Dex, +3 class skill
Bluff +9 = +3 ranks, +3 Cha, +3 class skill
Diplomacy +18 = +12 ranks, +3 Cha, +3 class skill
Fly +20 = +12 ranks, +3 Dex, +3 class skill, +2 extra mods
Knowledge (arcana) +9 = +6 ranks, +3 Int
Knowledge (religion) +12 = +6 ranks, +3 Int, +3 class skill
Perception +23 = +12 ranks, +4 Wis, +3 class skill, +4 extra mods
Sense Motive +15 = +6 ranks, +4 Wis, +3 class skill, +2 extra mods
Spellcraft +15 = +12 ranks, +3 Int
Survival +16 = +12 ranks, +4 Wis
Use Magic Device +18 = +12 ranks, +3 Cha, +3 class skill
I disagree too.
Adding up the ranks it's: 12 + 3 + 12 + 12 + 6 + 6 + 12 + 6 + 12 + 12 + 12 = 105 again.3 ranks still missing.
The original message from chopswil was wrong only in making Knowledge (arcana) a class skill and putting 15 ranks in Use Magic Device, while UMD instead was class skill with 12 ranks and Knowledge (arcana) wasn't class skill and had those 3 more ranks that chopswil put in UMD (thus generating the wrong "15 ranks").
Also, the listed DC for Couatl's poison is 16 while it shoud be 21.
Cyclops, skill bonuses issue.
Cyclops skill points = (2+0) * 10 = 20
Currently used: 17 (or else Intimide has not been considered as a class skill. But it is, due to the Giant subtype).
This is how the Skills block should be (skills marked with (C) are class skills):
Intimidate (C): +12 (+10 ranks + 3 class -1 Cha)
Perception (C): +11 (+8 racial +2 feat +1 Wis)
Profession (soothsayer) (C): +10 (+6 ranks +3 class + 1 Wis)
Sense Motive: +5 (+2 ranks +2 feat +1 Wis)
Survival (C): +6 (+2 ranks +3 class +1 Wis)
Or else Intimidate has 7 ranks and stays at a total of +9 as it is currently, and the 3 missing ranks go to some other skill. Perception, for example, and it would go to +17 (+3 ranks +3 class +8 racial +2 feat +1 Wis).
Cyclops again, heavy crossbow ranged attack issue:
The listed critical multiplier is x3 while it should be x2, and the attack bonus should include a second attack at a +0 bonus.
and the attack bonus should include a second attack at a +0 bonus.
reloading a heavy crossbow is a full round action (or a move action if you have the rapid reload feat, which the cyclops doesn't), so the cyclops can't get iterative attacks with it.
Ah, right for that one.
>>> COUATL <<<
I disagree*waiting for shocked gasps to die down...*
Modified below, this uses all 4 theme-appropriate skills, does not violate Max Ranks = Hit Dice, and also uses up all skill points:
#Acrobatics +18
*Bluff +9
#Diplomacy +18
@Fly +20
Knowledge (arcana) +9
#Knowledge (religion) +12
*Perception +23
*Sense Motive +15
Spellcraft +15
Survival +16
#Use Magic Device +18Breaking down:
Acrobatics +18 = +12 ranks, +3 Dex, +3 class skill
Bluff +9 = +3 ranks, +3 Cha, +3 class skill
Diplomacy +18 = +12 ranks, +3 Cha, +3 class skill
Fly +20 = +12 ranks, +3 Dex, +3 class skill, +2 extra mods
Knowledge (arcana) +9 = +6 ranks, +3 Int
Knowledge (religion) +12 = +6 ranks, +3 Int, +3 class skill
Perception +23 = +12 ranks, +4 Wis, +3 class skill, +4 extra mods
Sense Motive +15 = +6 ranks, +4 Wis, +3 class skill, +2 extra mods
Spellcraft +15 = +12 ranks, +3 Int
Survival +16 = +12 ranks, +4 Wis
Use Magic Device +18 = +12 ranks, +3 Cha, +3 class skillI disagree too.
Adding up the ranks it's: 12 + 3 + 12 + 12 + 6 + 6 + 12 + 6 + 12 + 12 + 12 = 105 again.
3 ranks still missing.Also, the listed DC for Couatl's poison is 16 while it shoud be 21.
My bad. In order to balance things for my own purposes, I have Bluff is not a class skill either. It's line should read
Bluff +9 = +6 ranks, +3 Cha.This is a weakness chopswil and I have discussed quite a bit. It seems that outsiders don't always spend their 4 theme-appropriate class-skill slots on the skills they use. For whatever reason, to make things balance, the Couatl has Profession (Basketweaving) as a class skill. It makes reverse engineering their stat blocks really tough.
I agree with you about the poison, Astral.
Cyclops again, heavy crossbow ranged attack issue:
The listed critical multiplier is x3 while it should be x2, and the attack bonus should include a second attack at a +0 bonus.
I agree with you about the skill points.
cwslyclgh is correct on the iterative attacks.However going from the PRD, the crit multiplier is already listed as /19-20. Was this errated?
to make things balance, the Couatl has Profession (Basketweaving) as a class skill.
Uhm, I didn't understand if it's a joke or truth... in case it's truth, where is it taken from?
However going from the PRD, the crit multiplier is already listed as /19-20. Was this errated?
The PRD is indeed correct, but the change is not listed in the Errata 1.0.
_____________________________________________
Babau, page 57
Minor error: the listed damage for the Longspear (1d8+7) lacks the x3 critical multiplier (1d8+7/x3).
Has this been stated by an official source or is it an assumption based on observation, which could still mean that it is a reiterated error?
Because I'm seeing right now that the Balor has the same issue, and at this point I suppose I'll see it again and again on other outsiders I'll check.
Has this been said by an official source or is it an assumption based on observation (which could still mean that this issue is a reiterated error)?
Because I'm seeing right now that the Balor too has this issue, and at this point I suppose I'm going to see it also in other outsiders I'll check.
The wraith's CMD should be 21, shouldn't it?
10 base + 3 BAB +3 Dex +5 deflection from Charisma = 21.
Currently listed as 16.
It's an assumption and it happens on most of the outsiders.
People brought this scenario up when I was looking through the Bestiary 2 monsters, check out the Bestiary errors thread.
I think it's a cop out, if true, on the developer's part.
It makes it difficult to check the outsider skill math since there are "open" themed skill slots. Is it an open skill or is it an error?
I personally believe they all should be assigned.
Me too. I don't see a good point for leaving a class skill unassigned. If a GM wants to customize the creature, she/he may reassign the four variable class skills at whim, but for the standard book creature my opinion is that it should have it assigned already.
The wraith's CMD should be 21, shouldn't it?
10 base + 3 BAB +3 Dex +5 deflection from Charisma = 21.
Currently listed as 16.
I agree.
________________________________________
Greater Barghest, page 27
The listed DCs for Charm Monster and Crushing Despair are both 16 while they should both be 18 (10 +4 Cha +4 spell level).
Glabrezu, page 61
Unholy Blight is missing its DC entry (DC 19).
Glabrezu again (why isn't edit time a little longer?)
Skill issue about Diplomacy and Intimidate: the listed bonus for both is +22, while the math tells me +12 ranks +5 Cha +4 feat = +21 total.
Possibility 1: Diplomacy and Intimidate haven't been considered class skills, yet 1 point in excess is listed.
Possibility 2: Diplomacy and Intimidate have been considered class skills, but in this case the above +21 becomes +24.
Marilith, page 63
Listed DC for Project Image is 23, it should be 24 (10 +7 Cha + 7 spell level).
Marilith again. Attack bonuses issue.
The attack bonus for Tail Slap is +19 both times it is listed, but it should be +17 (+16 BAB +7 Str -1 size -5 secondary attack).
The attack bonus for the slams too is +24 and should be +22 (+16 BAB +7 Str -1 size).
Nabasu, page 64.
The errata corrected the AC entry, but forgot to add the +1 from the Dodge feat to CMD, which would go from 28 (the currently listed) to 29.
Glabrezu again (why isn't edit time a little longer?)
Skill issue about Diplomacy and Intimidate: the listed bonus for both is +22, while the math tells me +12 ranks +5 Cha +4 feat = +21 total.
Possibility 1: Diplomacy and Intimidate haven't been considered class skills, yet 1 point in excess is listed.
Possibility 2: Diplomacy and Intimidate have been considered class skills, but in this case the above +21 becomes +24.
The stat blocks come out as follows for these skills:
+10 ranks +5 Cha +4 feat +3 class skill = +22 totalThe tradeoff for doing things this way is that you will now have spent only 104 skill points out of an available 108.
Marilith again. Attack bonuses issue.
The attack bonus for Tail Slap is +19 both times it is listed, but it should be +17 (+16 BAB +7 Str -1 size -5 secondary attack).
The attack bonus for the slams too is +24 and should be +22 (+16 BAB +7 Str -1 size).Nabasu, page 64.
The errata corrected the AC entry, but forgot to add the +1 from the Dodge feat to CMD, which would go from 28 (the currently listed) to 29.
I agree with you on both of these.
Ghaele, page 25
Holy Aura in the "Aura" entry doesn't list the "(DC 21)".
Quasit, page 66
Other than the CMB error previously noticed in this thread:
1) In the "SQ" entry, Change Shape, "polymorph" has a typo (it's written "polmorph").
2) The listed Poison DC is 13 while it should be 11. Or else, more likely the entry is missing the statement "the DC is Constitution-based and includes a +2 racial bonus".
Plus, a question: since all other Demons have a +8 racial bonus on Perception, was it forgotten on the Quasit's making or was it intentionally skipped? I personally think this was intentional (because otherwise it could/should have been part of the Demon subtype), but had to ask, just in case.
Shadow Demon, page 67
Sunlight Powerlessness states: "A shadow demon caught in such light cannot attack and can take only a single move or attack action."
Was it meant to be "a single move or standard action"?
Succubus, page 68
Same old problem of the fourth variable class skill that is unassigned.
Vrock, page 69
Listed DC for Stunning Screech is 20 and should be 21 (10 + half HD + Con = 10 + 4 + 7).
The wraith's CMD should be 21, shouldn't it?
10 base + 3 BAB +3 Dex +5 deflection from Charisma = 21.
Currently listed as 16.
already reported on page 9 of this thread...
and you are correct.
That's odd. I did a search for the word "wraith" in this thread and nothing came up.
Osyluth, page 74
Fly skill bonus is +21, but should be +26 (+10 ranks +5 Dex +3 class skill +4 maneuverability -2 size +6 [1/2 caster level for the constant Fly spell-like ability]).
Even if the 1/2 caster level bonus wasn't to be considered (but I don't see why not), it would be +20, not +21.
Pg. 47
The Cloaker's engulf does not read at all like how the special ability definition in the Bestiary 2 (pg. 296 B2) does. Perhaps the cloaker's engulf should be renamed or is it supposed to be a very powerful buff compared how it reads?
Pg. 47
The Cloaker's engulf does not read at all like how the special ability definition in the Bestiary 2 (pg. 296 B2) does. Perhaps the cloaker's engulf should be renamed or is it supposed to be a very powerful buff compared how it reads?
Simply a matter of names, I'd say, but personally I have no trouble with it.
interesting, creatures that use a fly spell don't get a entry in the speed section for fly even though they have the Fly skill.
A fly speed seems to denote a nature flying ability.
Here there is the constant fly Spell-Like Ability and there is an entry in speed for fly.
Osyluth's Fly spell-like ability is constant, so it's like a way of natural flight (also, the creature has this ability since its "birth", not from later acquisitions), except it shares the mechanics of the Fly spell and does not function in an antimagic zone (considering that this Fly is constant and thus doesn't need to be activated by spending an action, it would have better been made a supernatural ability, but... whatever).
In any case, the error in the Fly skill persists, unless something hidden to my eyes is at work.
Simply a matter of names, I'd say, but personally I have no trouble with it.Pg. 47
The Cloaker's engulf does not read at all like how the special ability definition in the Bestiary 2 (pg. 296 B2) does. Perhaps the cloaker's engulf should be renamed or is it supposed to be a very powerful buff compared how it reads?
I've been told that for all abilities that are defined, it obtains the core definition of the ability and then any modifiers to the ability from the creature itself. Normally they are stated somewhat similar but in this case nothing is the same. It would be nice to find out if it is intended or its just a bad name since it's a monster from an older era and should be called something more like 'Wrap up'. The wording of the ability could use some rewording too, as it should probably state that the target is considered grappled and obtains the grappled condition if that is the intent of the ability. If not that means this monster can pin and the target is in danger of suffocating while being bit at and loses its dex and gets a -4 ac, instead of the things that go along with being grappled.
If the pin were the case the creature wouldnt need the +4 on bite attacks as it would probably hit every time anyways and the target couldnt retaliate.
I personally can't envision suffocating from the thing and not being able to shove a knife into it while its trying to eat me.
Barbazu, page 73
Infernal Wound description, the DC of the required caster level check is 16, while the DC for the Heal check is 17.
Although the mechanics for these DCs are not clearly revealed, I suppose they are 10 + 1/2 HD + Con modifier. In the Cornugon's Infernal Wounds those DCs (both the caster level check DC and the Heal DC) are indeed exactly equal to that sum, as does the DC 17 for the Barbazu. If this all is correct, the DC 16 for the caster level check should be a DC 17 too.
Cornugon, page 76, and Gelugon, page 77
The Fear Aura in missing the duration of the effect (as for the Osyluth). Or must it be interpretated that it uses the Fear spell duration (and in this case, is the caster level the same as per the Cornugon/Gelugon spell-like abilities?)?
The Gelugon also has the missing bonus to its Fly skill due to the constant Fly spell-like ability, like the Osyluth as I said above.
Provided there isn't a reason to not add it, of course.
Pit Fiend, page 80
Same issue about Fear Aura as for Cornugon and Gelugon.
Plus, a quite visible contradiction in the Devil Shaping special ability that oddly enough seems not to have been discussed in the forums (as far as I could see through searching, at least).
The description of such ability first states:
"It can then reshape these lemures into a number of Hit Dice’s worth of lesser devils (see page 71) equal to the number of lemures affected."
Looking at page 71, the lesser devils are Barbazus, Erinyes, Hamatulas and Osyluths.
Yet, the description of Devil Shaping in the end says:
"Although pit fiends can, technically, elevate a mass of 20 lemures into a new pit fiend, most are hesitant to do so since they have no special control over a devil created in this manner."
Which makes me think that by "lesser devils" it wanted to mean more "devils of lesser (or even equal) rank than the Pit Fiend itself" rather than "lesser devils" as the ones reported in page 71's hierarchy.
The text following the Pit Fiend's statsheet, although it's not about game mechanics, says:
"pit fiends are raised from the ranks of cornugons and gelugons by the archdevils and their dukes alone."
Thus, not from Lemures and not by an "average" Pit Fiend, it would seem.
So, which of the two things is real? Can a Pit Fiend create a new Pit Fiend (or a Cornugon or Gelugon) or can it only shape Barbazus, Erinyes, Hamatulas and Osyluths (and supposedly Imps)?
Pit Fiend, page 80
Same issue about Fear Aura as for Cornugon and Gelugon.
Plus, the listed DC is 23 and should be 28 (10 + half HD + Cha = 10 + 10 + 8).
Devourer, page 82
The DC for Energy Drain (in the Special Attacks entry) is 20 and should be 22 (10 + half HD + Cha = 10 + 7 + 5).
Triceratops, page 86
The Improved Critical feat does not specify to which weapon it is applied. Of course the Triceratops has only a gore attack, but it's a "format" issue.
Plus, the critical range of the gore attack modified by such feat (19-20) isn't listed in the Melee entry and in the Special Attacks (Powerful Charge) entry.
In the PRD, the Tyrannosaurus is listed before the Triceratops, although the alphabetical order would ask for the opposite (Dinosaurs).
Dog, page 87
The Rabies data says the Fortitude save DC is 14. Is this a fixed DC or does it include a bonus?
Because if the normal disease rules for the DC (10 + 1/2 HD + Con) are followed, the DC would be 12 for a Rabid Dog or 13 for a Rabid Riding Dog.
Doppelganger, page 89
The +9 Bluff skill bonus is followed by: "(+13 while using change shape ability)".
Where does that +4 (13 - 9) come from?
I've looked through Change Shape, polymorph and Alter Self descriptions, as well as the Bluff skill description, but didn't see any mention of a +4.
(The Doppelganger has a +4 Bluff racial bonus, but it is already included in the normal +9 [+4 ranks +4 racial +1 Cha] and is not a situational bonus [which in that case would have been the situation when the Doppelganger uses Change Shape, of course].)
Adult Black Dragon, pages 92-93
Listed CMB is +24 and should be +22 (+14 base attack bonus +7 Str +1 size).
Young Blue Dragon, page 94
Special Attacks entry: listed DC for the Desert Thirst ability is 16.
It should be 18, same DC as the Breath Weapon, as reported in the ability's descriptive text.
Yet, adult and Ancient Blue Dragons' Desert Thirst has the same error of a different DC than the breath's, and all these DCs are correct if the relevant ability score taken into account is Cha and not Con. Thus I suppose the error is in the text of Desert Thirst itself, and the DC is Charisma-based (and, on a personal note, that would also be more appropriate, since it requires a Will save).
Adult/Ancient Blue Dragon, page 95
For both dragons, the listed DC for the Minor Image spell-like ability is 1 point lower than it should be (10 + 2 level + Cha).
Ancient Green Dragon, page 97
The Level 0 spells entry is missing 3 known spells (it's the same as the Adult Green Dragon's).
Green Dragon, page 96
The Awaken Treants special ability doesn't specify the range at which it can be used.
Touch (as per the Awaken spell), close (as Animate Plants) or other?