Isn't it a bit presumptuous assuming what encounters Purple Dragon's character has been in and how effective his character has been?
It's pretty rude as far to assume someone is lying about their experience and manufacture an example to prove how silly they are. In this case it isn't even a particularly well thought out example.
Without really digging in to things too much look at the selection of opponents. It's far more common to see CR 10 encounters with a collection of CR 6-8th creatures than a single CR 10 creature.
... and I'm just floored that you trivialize the ability to arbitrarily move an enemy up to 100' in a round. I am floored that someone can understand the rules of the game as well as you but not grasp how really nice that ability is.
Edit: you completely edited your post since I posted this.
Hah, I totally forgot. All of this stuff is completely immune to your whirlwind anyway; it only affects creatures medium-sized or smaller!
Which proves what exactly? That you picked poor examples? Purple dragon didn't suggest whirlwind would be used on these creatures, nor did I.
FWIW, it will work just fine against fire giants at 12th level which is when they are much more likely to encounter them.
You are the one who started making examples and generalizing things Purp, just said when he used it, it was great.
I'm trivializing the ability to move an enemy like that because it requires the entirety of your attention, accomplishing nothing else (and you only get 60' fly speed but whatever) and sometimes it doesn't even work and a large cross-section of enemies are immune. Spending a turn to move a guy about as far as he can spend a turn to move is a zero tradeoff, so it's not worth the risk that you have to run to do it.
Dropping someone off a cliff is a zero tradeoff?
Dropping someone off a cliff is a zero tradeoff?
The answer is, "That's extremely situational."
And the answer to that is, "Wild Shape covers a lot of situations."
Then we point out that the OP specifically used the phrase "combat monster," followed by some people saying "okay, but it's still a really good ability" and a few more examples of how you can at least be competent in general melee, even if you can't dominate.
There, I just saved a page on this thread. Now start over with something else impressive but situational. ;)
Edit: BTW Dennis, any chance you'd like to drop in over here?
Not too impressed.
In 5 minutes, with only selecting about 8 feats (I am sure if I agonized as long over feats as you did about wildshape forms, I would find a few extra tricks), I created a level 10 fighter who is +20/+15 who hits for 1d12+1d6 electrical + 25. An average of 35 points per hit. He has a critical threat range of 17-20 and +4 on critical confirmations. He has Great Cleave so he can attack multiple targets quite often, even after moving - maybe even as often as you can trample multiple targets.
...
Well, yes. How pissed would you be if the druid was a better fighter than the fighter?
Incidentally, you get summoning an elemental to whirlwind for you a level before whirlwinding with your own face. Food for thought.
This is true... but when you do it, it'll last longer, and when you are in elemental form you'll get more out of it due to superior hit dice, et al. Hm... actually you can summon an Elemental at 3rd level of druid and can't wildshape into one until 6th level as a druid...
So it's actually a three level spread.
Then we point out that the OP specifically used the phrase "combat monster," followed by some people saying "okay, but it's still a really good ability" and a few more examples of how you can at least be competent in general melee, even if you can't dominate.
I guess I forgot the phrase "combat monster" now means "Dishes out massive amounts of direct damage". I'll pencil that into my lexicon ;)
There, I just saved a page on this thread. Now start over with something else impressive but situational. ;)
Thanks for that :)
I'm not saying that he's lying about his experience. I'm saying that it's weak on level-appropriate foes, and that was before I remembered that the bulk of them are just plain immune. I picked CR 10 foes by grabbing my MM and pointing at random.
Maybe instead of putting a sarcastic post you should have said it like you are saying it here? From my perspective your post didn't get your point across well and you came across as a jerk.
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And on a separate note, it vexes me greatly that, per RAW, large trampling creatures can simply tromp through their allies spaces with no penalty. Me, as a DM, I think the rule allowing you to move through an ally's space assumed that neither you nor your ally fill the entire space. ..snip..Seems to me, this rule is badly designed (e.g. it's pure "cheese") and desperately in need of houseruling - but you're right, per RAW, you certainly can get away with it.I do not have a Bestiary yet, but the 3.5 MM (pg. 316)reads as follows...
"The creature merely has to move over the opponents in its path; ANY CREATURE whose space is completely covered by the trampling creature's space IS subject to the trampling attack."
EDIT: It is a 'full-round action', so even moving through allies to get to the opponents is considered part of the trample action. Much like you wouldn't be able to charge(full-round action also) through allies, you cannot trample through them without literally trampling them.
Yeah, I thought I had encountered that rule somewhere (it's certainly how I've always played it), but I don't have the Bestiary and didn't see anything in the Core Rules that said as much. But it does make a lot of sense.
I hope we don't get PDK in trouble here - he'll be the one vexed, perhaps even sorely so, if his DM reads this and stops letting him trample over his allies safely.
Emphasis mine on the "opponents" bit above, which can be interpreted as "smashing down the bad guys only" which has certainly been fine for my DM so far (remember it's an intelligent druid running a mech warrior suit, not an actual 2 intelligence elephant or triceratops...)
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There's also not much foes can do when my druid decides to go large air elemental whirlwind on them... druids are kickass.Man, I missed this.
They can beat you to death, which they will, happily. You are sucking up enemies into your space where they are free to beat you to a pulp at a piddling -2 to hit. Let's try whirlwinding some CR 10 critters, as a level 10 druid. Let's say you have 22 str including the WS bonus (which is exceptionally generous), 20 AC (also super generous), and 99 HP. This druid started with, like, 16 str 14 dex and 16 con, so we're talking a bit more than even 32 point buy.
Now, let's pick a CR 10 creature at random. Let's say...noble salamader. Wait, that's not fair, you burn and die. Hm. Let's try...no, not a clay golem, his DR means he ignores all of your whirlwind damage. Not a rakshasa either...or a bebelith, geez, this is hard. I didn't think it was this bad.
Ah, fire giant, there we go. You sweep through the fire giant's space, and can't hardly fail to suck him up. (Seriously, he needs to roll a 20 on one of two rolls to avoid it.) He doesn't mind; in fact, he'll happily let you pick him up, because on his turn, he'll attack you. Your AC is effectively 22. He will power attack and hit you on a 5+ for 35 damage, a 10+ for 35 damage, and a 15+ for 35 damage. So he kills you in two rounds on average.
Oops.
My 10th level druid is AC 29 in Large Air Elemental form; STR 24, so DC is 22; damage 1d8 + 7 per round. Do that a few rounds on minions while fighters/mages wipe the floor with bosses. Our party kicks ass with this cherry picker druid! :)
BTW, triceratops is at STR 28... so dmg/DC in my trample example above should be two higher.
Emphasis mine on the "opponents" bit above, which can be interpreted as "smashing down the bad guys only" which has certainly been fine for my DM so far (remember it's an intelligent druid running a mech warrior suit, not an actual 2 intelligence elephant or triceratops...)
The Bestiary's universal monster rules lack the "ANY creature whose space is completely covered..." wording regardless.
For what it's worth... whenever I play Mech Warrior I have no control over whether or not the infantry get stomped, they either do or don't, I'm just walking around.
And yes, I'm sadistic enough to try to just step on some and intentionally leave others cowering in fear.
Hahahaha.... I kind of think trample should work this way. Probably house it in.
is gonna come off a bit preachy but... your giving up concept because its not uber? if i can play a sorc 4/shugenja 4/mystic theurge 2 in 3.5, as MAIN healer and spell caster of my group! i am pretty sure can make this word just fine. Things to keep in mind as a shifter based druid...
Natural Spell lets you cast while shifted means don't have to return to your normal form.
Buffs are your friends, true to any hybrid(and you are a hybrid) remember you DO have ability to buff yourself out the wazoo! will you match a fighters prowess? NO and why should you? you can heal, cast range damage, summon monsters at will and remove almost any status effect. You also as a druid get a multitude of effects resistances and immunities(if i remember correctly) that WILL help you in combat!
giving up because your not capable of taking on mass groups with out worry... just tells me you want something uber and awesome! sometimes don't need to be optimal to have fun, my whacky sorc/shugenja/MT most fun character i've ever played! was he awesome? no probably weakest toon i ever played(he was also a kobold just to add to his weakness!)but he was fun and thats what counts!
tell you same thing i tell all my players in D&D... this game isn't about how tough YOU are but what you bring to the group! this game is about having fun! this game is about working as a unit... being the best isn't important because at end of the day, if your not having fun why bother?
sorry if this offends you but just way i feel... i shake my head at people reroll cause not the most awesome sauce bad ass in the group! i can take any class and make it work, and if i can so can you.
is gonna come off a bit preachy but ... i shake my head at people reroll cause not the most awesome sauce bad ass in the group! i can take any class and make it work, and if i can so can you.
While I agree with your intent, one has to consider roles within the group, and how effectively a particular PC fills (or fails to fill) that role.
The original post seemed to be suggesting that the poster wanted to be a shape-shifting druid so he could womp on the bad guys with his shifted melee goodness. That says to me the role he's trying to fill is a primary melee role. Not a support class, not a buffer, not a caster, not a scout, etc.
From that perspective, a 3.5 druid made a very solid primary melee character, but a Pathfinder druid does not. So the responses I've given in this thread have been from that perspective.
That doesn't mean that I believe a druid to be worthless, or that all druids must reroll as something else because they are not uber. I personally believe that druids are possibly the most versatile class in the game, but probably one of the least effective at fulfilling any primary role - in fact, I can take any of the other ten classes and point directly at a role they fill as well or better than all other classes, but I cannot do this for druids. That makes them, in my opinion, difficult for most players to play, and doubly so if the group is just 4 characters relying on the druid to hold down a primary role.
But of all the roles a druid might try to fill, wildshaped melee is, in Pathfinder, one of their weakest choices - which is, unfortunately, what the OP was evidently trying to achieve.
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In our campaign I first had my druid take a level of fighter for martial weapon lance and heavy armor proficiency, and then had him take all the mounted combat feats plus animal companion large lion. Try wildshaping into a medium plant (anything with opposable thumbs that can wield a lance, for +2 STR, CON and Nat Armor; my half-orc usually takes volodni form and looks as close as himself as possible - the dry, barky skin and fresh pine scent being the only give away! :P).
On a charge, not only do you have a 10 foot reach via lance and can do 3d8+24+2d6 (Rhino Hide), but when you crit (and it happens to me about once per game) the dmg goes up to 5d8+40+2d6.
I'm not saying I could fill the barbarian's role properly, but I can say that this guy was as good as the group's meleeists when he was able to do his thing and charge foes with his lance. Not a lot of people take the Mounted Combat route because it is too situational, but if you play a druid (i.e. support guy and other critical party roles have been filled), these Mounted feats combined with the Animal Companion features pack a heck of punch. Greater Magic Fang the Animal Companion and give it Improved and Greater Overrun, and coupled with your Spirited Charge/Trample/Ride-by feats, you have a situation when you first attack the enemy with your lance, continue to ride via Ride-by, then the Animal Companion gets to try to overrun and claw/hoof via your Trample feat, and via the Overrunning mechanics, continues to the end of its move (repeat everyround).
Mix the above move with Wall of Thorns, and wow! Druid can move through thorns, so if you can pass that skill down to your Animal Companion via spell or magic item or something, then you can surround your foes with a ring of thorns and charge them/run them over and dissapear at the end of the round through the thorns! (i.e. charging through one end of the circle and out the other, rinse, lather and repeat!)
..created a level 10 fighter who is +20/+15 who hits for 1d12+1d6 electrical + 25. An average of 35 points per hit. He has a critical threat range of 17-20 and +4 on critical confirmations. He has Great Cleave so he can attack multiple targets quite often, even after moving - maybe even as often as you can trample multiple targets...I'll take 35 points to every target in reach over 23 (or save for half) any day, especially since you cannot critical that trample (about 1 in 5 attacks from my fighter will do around 67 points of damage)...And the fighter moves faster than a heavily armored druid, has more HP and a better AC. And he can walk through a normal sized door, fight in a 5'-wide corridor, and switch to a Long Composite bow whenever he needs to kill things at range...
Fighters rock at fighting. No doubt. I'm going to propose a level 10 melee druid build. H power attack 1 Improved initiative, 3 craft wonderous item, 5 natural spell, 7 multi-attack, 9 Metamagic possibly
Assuming 25 pt buy
62,000 gp standard wealth for level 10 char
STR 16+2race+2level(20) Dex 14 Con 14 Int 10 Wis 14 Cha 10
We're going to use dire tiger because I like it. so +4 STR, -2 Dex +4 Natural armor. From SRD, no bestiary yet. Greater magic fang to give all weapons +1 enhancement is very realistic at this point thus overcoming all dr/magic.
Equipment Amulet of mighty fists (flaming, freezing, crafted 10k), Belt of physical perfection (+2 STR/Dex/Con, crafted 8K), Pariapt of wisdom (+2 WIS, crafted, 2K) Dragonhide Breastplate (+1 Wild, purchased 16,700 GP) Animated heavy shield (+1 animated, purchased, 9157GP) crafted Ring of protection (+2, purchased 8K), He's spent about 54K still has a some left for whatever, but let's not go crazy here, this is decent stuff this druid could expect to have at this level.
Druid can be in Dire Tiger form for 10 hours with one use, so I'm assuming he starts the fight as such. Unspelled he is at 26 STR, 20 Nat, +2 enhancement, +4 size, has AC of 10-1size+4natural(+8barkskin)+7 armor, +3 shield, +2 DEX so 25(29 spelled) AC, respectable
Maxing out Stealth and Perception, even as a large creature he has +11 stealth +16 perception, so good chance of a surprise round.
(Some GM's may rule that the base damage is lower because damage is upped by improved natural attack, a feat for the dire tiger, I just don't want to look up what they are before modified)
Attacks are as follows on a pounce 2 claws +14(+15 GMF) 2d4+8(9) +1d6 fire +1d6 cold, 1 bite +12(13) 2d6+4(5) +1d6 fire +1d6 cold, 2 rakes +12(13) 2d4 +4(5) +1d6 fire +1d6 cold
Here's the thing, this is not a munchkin build. Anyone can do this, it's not even that optimized, I really should throw in craft magical arms and armor and make that stuff too. This druid can function as party scout, and he can lay the smack down. How many level 10 characters can put down 5 attacks adding 10d6 elemental damage on top of their regular hits? This is ignoring the animal companion which can also pounce, it will do less damage but 10 attacks per turn is respectable for a level 10 character.
The druid rests his case, and he has about 1zillion other options for how to be effective in melee..
Edit: oops add 2 deflection to his AC 27 unspelled 31 with barkskin
Mix the above move with Wall of Thorns, and wow! Druid can move through thorns
Not magical ones.
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Because you spent one feat, the GM is going to let you go 29,000 gold over wealth by level?
Really?
Careful feat selection entails the proper maximization of one's feats. If a DM has a beef against some things, he should clearly enunciate his houserules at the beginning of his campaign. A DM who claims he/she runs his game as per RAW should do so, and not try to gimp the use of item creation feats as PCs reach the levels necessary to qualify for these feats. To do so is dishonest at best.
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(although I have yet to find a loophole to bring the Animal Companion over with the druid *through* the Wall of Thorns... :P)
I played in a game once with a house rule that the Druid's Woodland Stride ability could be shared with his Animal Companion, as long as they stayed within 5 ft. of each other ('cause otherwise, it was pretty silly, the Druid having to stop all the time and wait for his furry buddy to catch up...). I could see a Feat that included Woodland Stride, Trackless Step and even, at the end of his career, Timeless Body, to be shared with an Animal Companion.
The specific Wall of Thorns trick might easily be folded into such a Feat as well, as long as the companion and druid remain touching or within 5 ft. of each other.
A lot of people play PF that way?
If you're allowed to completely double your gear for two feats, then lots of subpar things become a lot stronger, but that's mostly because the party trivially blows away pretty much any CR-appropriate opposition, especially by level 10.
I have no idea how many people play this way. My groups don't but I know there are some people who do. Mostly folks who start their games at 10th level.
I don't think it's so much a rules thing as a play style thing.
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I don't think it's so much a rules thing as a play style thing.
I'm gonna guess that the people who do this are just happy that there are now rules for what they used to get away with in 1st edition by taking a free 'background' as Armorer or Bowyer/Fletcher so that they could start with a free longbow or piece of armor.
Not that I ever did that. Or that it was so common and assumed that we had a house rule that you couldn't take animal trainer to get a free warhorse... :)
I don't think it's so much a rules thing as a play style thing.I'm gonna guess that the people who do this are just happy that there are now rules for what they used to get away with in 1st edition by taking a free 'background' as Armorer or Bowyer/Fletcher so that they could start with a free longbow or piece of armor.
Not that I ever did that. Or that it was so common and assumed that we had a house rule that you couldn't take animal trainer to get a free warhorse... :)
This isn't any different from 3.5 as far as I'm aware.
I don't like that style of game but everyone has a different style.
FWIW most of the time when I've started at higher levels the GM gives a quota and everyone pays full price. I've also had one GM who just assigned me a certain set of items he rolled or selected (I'm not sure which).
I wonder if instead of killing all those dragons for their hide if druids would make armor out of wood have it enhanced to their liking then cast ironwood on it every 11 or so days. Would seem to much more druidic wearing wooden armor than dragonscale armor. You would just have to be level 11 to do it. As a +4 enhancement I wouldn't think you would be able to have wild armor much before then anyway.
I will chime in on this in more detail but there are two things that really shine for the melee build. Myself, I have a 6th level Dwarf Druid STR 18 Dex 10 Con 16 Int 7 Wis 18 Cha 5.
First, Rhino hide armor is amazing. +2d6 with all your attacks on a pounce is amazing. Add in a flaming or frost Amulet for +1d6 and you are already building on the damage for your dire tiger.
2nd the only concern I have had of late is AC. This I believe I will over come with 1 level of monk for the + to AC while not wearing armor equal to my WIS.
The thing about the item feats, is that they are supposed to be balanced against wealth. Back in 3.5 that was closer to the case, when you had to spend EXP, and time(time being a poor balancing rod)
Now, with the EXP costs gone, all that's left is the time which is, again, a very poor tool for balancing the potential wealth gain.
If you want to run those feats as dramatically reducing your cost of gear, you would do well to up the material costs to, say, 70%, and drop the time to something reasonable, like maybe a week.
Maybe. None of the groups I've been in have had issues with it. Which means exactly that and nothing more.
Because you spent one feat, the GM is going to let you go 29,000 gold over wealth by level?
Really?
um.. crafting your own gear typically allows you to make the proper items for your character at half value. If you don't like that, it's not really my problem. I think you're just upset because you were disproved and druids really can melee if they want to.
It's also not really my fault that druids can profit more from wonderous items than other characters.
um.. crafting your own gear typically allows you to make the proper items for your character at half value. If you don't like that, it's not really my problem. I think you're just upset because you were disproved and druids really can melee if they want to.
It's also not really my fault that druids can profit more from wonderous items than other characters.
While this is all true in theory, I've never seen someone able to do a huge percentage of their items for half price in actual play. Mainly because the bulk of the loot is in the form of magic items. The party puts many of the items to use then the rest are sold at 1/2 price.
So crafting items is quite often a break even thing. Instead of getting items for 1/2 off you get the exact items you want for essentially full price.
If your GM gives out the bulk of your treasure in gold coinage or if you are allowed to craft all your items up front then you can this is going to be different.
So sure it is possible to use craft to double your magic items but it's certainly not a universal thing, and from what I've seen it's the exception rather than the rule.
While this is all true in theory, I've never seen someone able to do a huge percentage of their items for half price in actual play. Mainly because the bulk of the loot is in the form of magic items.
That, and crafting takes time. It's not something you can really do while you're adventuring, unless you're an artificer with a portable hole and a homunculus that can craft for you.
... crafting takes time. It's not something you can really do while you're adventuring, unless you're an artificer with a portable hole and a homunculus that can craft for you.
So your adventuring partys never rest or train? Unless you have a particular adventure that needs to be done within a specific time frame, an adventurer should have plenty of time to craft during rest/training.
um.. crafting your own gear typically allows you to make the proper items for your character at half value. If you don't like that, it's not really my problem. I think you're just upset because you were disproved and druids really can melee if they want to.
It's also not really my fault that druids can profit more from wonderous items than other characters.
While this is all true in theory, I've never seen someone able to do a huge percentage of their items for half price in actual play. Mainly because the bulk of the loot is in the form of magic items. The party puts many of the items to use then the rest are sold at 1/2 price.
So crafting items is quite often a break even thing. Instead of getting items for 1/2 off you get the exact items you want for essentially full price.
If your GM gives out the bulk of your treasure in gold coinage or if you are allowed to craft all your items up front then you can this is going to be different.
So sure it is possible to use craft to double your magic items but it's certainly not a universal thing, and from what I've seen it's the exception rather than the rule.
I agree with that to a point. Assuming you never get an item your character needs it could be a break even thing. If any of the listed items were found as treasure that changes the scenario, but I have played in campaigns where the DM runs it and the fighter can use every item and noone else can in the party..which is not a really good way to run things in my opinion.
You also have to keep in mind that the suggested wealth listed is not how much your character should have gained by that point, but the amount they should still have including using up consumables like wands, potions, etc. So characters should have found much more but still have that amount.
Someone mentioned not being able to craft while you adventure. You should check the rules you are specifically allowed to craft 2 hours a day instead of 8 while adventuring, so it just takes longer to do.
So the upshot is that PF's crafting is yet another system run entirely by GM fiat and that it's damaged the consensus on WBL.
Super.
Anyhoo. OP, Wild Shaping lets you fight like a ranger or rogue, generally with less damage overall but a better opening and some extra tricks. Be careful, though, a lot of the tricks are really traps.
To me the purpose of wild shaping is to let you fight like a specialized fighter in several situations, without having to dedicate all your feats to it. Fighting a caster? grappler form. Something with DR? slugger form, fleshies.. pouncer form. fire vulnerability? fire elemental.
Druids often have just the right thing for the situation without having to take improved unarmed attack, improved grapple, two weapon fighting, improved two weapon fighting, etc. Full spellcasting, animal companion or domain abilities to boot and item creation is the icing on the cake.
You also have to keep in mind that the suggested wealth listed is not how much your character should have gained by that point, but the amount they should still have including using up consumables like wands, potions, etc. So characters should have found much more but still have that amount.
I'm not so sure I agree with this.
If I say "the average IT professional in my state earns about $80,000 per year but it's assumed that some of that is consumed by bills and other living expenses", then nobody would assume that those salaries are really quite a bit higher so that the IT professionals end up with $80,000 at the end of the year after expenses.
The Core Rulebook on page 400, referring to table 12-4 Wealth by Level, states "It is assumed that some of this treasure is consumed in the course of an adventure (such as potions and scrolls), and that some of the less useful items are sold for half value so more useful gear can be purchased." But this doesn't mean the PC has that much after expenses any more than the IT professional salary statement above.
Yeah, I suppose this statement in the rulebook is vague enough that some people will see it differently and argue it accordingly, but there is more evidence:
Table 12-5 Treasure Values per Encounter gives very specific "average" values of the treasure to give out per encounter. Nowhere in the explanation of how to use this table does it instruct the DM to exclude consumabable because they don't count as character wealth, nor does it instruct the DM to increase these values if the party is expending their consumables.
Since consumables like potions and scrolls and wands, as well as unwanted items sold at half price, are part of the treasure you find, and that is a fixed "average" value per table 12-5, this means that you add up the value of treasure you find (Table 12-5) and that should equal up to your expected wealth on Table 12-4. If you consume your consumables, you'll end up with less.
Some classes use more consumables. Fighters drink healing potions like dwarves drink ale. Casters almost always end up with wands and burn through those charges. Scrolls are almost never sold; they almost always end up being cast or being scribed into spellbooks.
But some classes, rogues for example, druids for another example, don't seem to need too many consumables. If all goes well, they use far fewer healing potions than the frontline guys (although a melee druid will probably need more healing than a fighter), and druid wands or rogue UMD wands are not that common, so these characters may end up closer to their expected wealth at any given level than the fighters and other casters will.
Not that it's a terribly big deal. Except at the very lowest levels, consumables always seem to be just a small percentage of the overall treasure.
So a 10th level druid with 23STR With:
Animal growth, GMF, amulet of mighty fists (frost) and rhino hide armor
Transforming into a dire tiger:
Would do an average of over 130 points of damage a round on a pounce if all his attacks hit. And he technically could do something close to this at 8th.
And this does not include any feats other then considering natural spell.
I think that is pretty comparable to your 10th level fighter.
So the upshot is that PF's crafting is yet another system run entirely by GM fiat and that it's damaged the consensus on WBL.
In D&D the GM has always been the final law and laid down the rules the group plays by, this goes way back. Having double the amount of magic items isn't vastly different from having double the point buy at the beginning of the game.
The GM can send monsters custom tailored to kill the PCs or he can send softball encounters all day long. How accessible magic items are, how much magic is in treasure, how much of that is usable by the party. It's all arbitrary decisions by the GM.
The entire concept of using stray items you find in the dungeon to augment your characters requires that it's GM fiat and has since day 1.
Systems where you have a point budget for character building and advancement like shadowrun or champions are sort of the opposite. I think Fantasy GURPS is more like that. also.
No change from 3.5, since in 3.5 Druid Wild Shape didn't provide type either.Animal Growth is not possible on a shifted druid.
The shifted druid IS NOT an animal ( big change from 3.5) and thus, you cannot cast animal growth on a druid
So subtract 16...
... crafting takes time. It's not something you can really do while you're adventuring, unless you're an artificer with a portable hole and a homunculus that can craft for you.So your adventuring partys never rest or train? Unless you have a particular adventure that needs to be done within a specific time frame, an adventurer should have plenty of time to craft during rest/training.
Generally speaking, adventures need to be done within a certain amount of time, and you can't just take off two weeks in the middle of one because your druid finally got enough ready cash together to enchant his +2 amulet of mighty fists to +3 (25k difference in price = 12.5k difference in cost = 13 days to enchant).
And no, we don't use any homebrew training rules. We use the ones in the book, the ones that say your characters are training while they're adventuring and thus don't need to spend time or money training to gain a level.