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The thread title says it all. I've purchased and read all 6 installments, have the Map Folio (what? no Catacombs of Wrath? And they go in there at least twice?), have read nearly every thread in this forum over the past year. Now it's gametime (or wil be in about 28 hours), so if any of you veterans of this AP have any friendly advice to throw my way, I'll gladly take it and give credit where it's due.
So, fire away! We (and by we, I mean "I") are on the clock!
Make Sandpoint and NPCS count as much as you can but don't trap the players more than you have to, it pays in the long run.
Have a few plan B for the possible TPKs they can be adressed in many ways depending on your group.
Yeah.. if you read every thread, I can't think of anything more specific to add other than try to create a sense of investment with Sandpoint and the NPCs.
Bear in mind that they're going to complain about a lack of treasure in the early chapters. Runelords relies on them picking up magical junk (like small +1 Hide Shirts) and seling them for their loot. Consequently, you're going to need to let them either craft (between chapters) or buy stuff when they get to larger venues like Magnimar.
Lay the ground work for Aldren early in Burnt Offerings. It's never too early to hint at the drug problem he's trying to kick, and the crush he may develop on a PC.
Touch upon how loud the sawmill is early in Burnt Offerings. Have them observe complaints to the Mayor. Later in the next chapter there's greater continuity when Aldren finds victims to kill in the Sawmill in the middle of the night.
If you enjoy the Scarnett's being a red herring, start their reputation in town early.
Beware of problem solving via arson. There's a tendency to want to just burn Thistletop, Foxglove Manor, and the Graul House down. Discourage arson right from the beginning and stomp on it.
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I had totally forgotten about Aldern's drug habit. Thanks!
Thanks also for the reminder about the loud sawmill. I have that one in my notes, as well as having Farmer Grump be seen drinking at the Swallowtail Festival, and other "greed in action" foreshadowing scenes.
As for creative arson, I had intended to mention often and in great detail the general dampness of the area. HMM does state that it's been raining non-stop (to set up the dam scenes), and Sandpoint in the first two installments do mention the fogginess and dampness. It helps that I'm trying to get it started at around the same time IRL as it is in game.
As for selling magic, I'm leary of having Magnimar play a bigger role than Sandpoint. I intend to have "bounties" for some items to rationalize a market for things like reaper masks and oddly-sized weapons, and I've got an idea for "disenchanting" items to get gp-equivalents from odd magic junk, but that's just in theory right now.
Any tips for making the Sandpoint NPCs pop?
Good advice so far.
To enhance Sandpoint:
I let my groups rescue Alma Avertin, the bakers wife in the goblin attack, she gives them free cookies every day now (and she will get captured by the giants).
I let them interact with the council as often as possible and made them hate Titus Scarnetti :-) The council gave them a house to live in after they ended the goblin threat, including a halfling-cook and a butler.
Another Tip: Start counting their sins right from the start and bring them in situations where they can commit every sin at least once
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If you have the luxury of prequel play (0 level, or very low 1st level), you can do what I did in My Game and stick them in town (as residents), and have them play through some events there, which will let them form relationships with notable town NPCs. For example in my game, there are two players who have a running feud (think Sons of Anarchy) with the Sheriff, as one is a half-orc evoker and is a rogue that works for Jubrayl. On the positive side, the bard in town made it a RP point to talk to almost everyone, and so when the party wants to know something, they send her around, and most of the rumors she picks up on. She also has one of Chopper's carved birds as a memento from before he snapped. I also had them all attend the town school (Turandurock Academy) and Tsuto, Ameiko, and Nualia were all older children at the school, so they had a passing acquaintance with them. These sorts of tie ins may seem contrived, but for good RPers they add another dimension. For example, when the party was facing Tsuto and the goblins in the glassworks recently, the bard tried to talk to Tsuto and get him to explain himself and stop. IMO, without some personal connection to the town, you may find the party having a rather lukewarm or indifferent response to future events, when the AP seems to imply there should be a sense of urgency.
Second piece of advice is to play up the runewell surges that cause angry dreams through town. If your players didn't grow up in town and experience them first hand, consider having a few aftershocks course through while they are there now. This ties into the root cause of why Nualia did what she did, etc. in a way the puzzle solvers in your party will like.
I find that romantic options with Ameiko work like a charm. I'm running Runelords for the second time...
(and as an aside, I'll be glad to start another one before I'm finished)
...I don't force her on anybody, but I allow it to be possible. I don't make her 'easy' in the sleightest, but I make it possible. It works like a charm.
Technically, the extra feats in the Runelords PG are a good incentive. They were proto-traits, and the advice from James and the PG has always been to give one away for free. Well, you can offer them as incentives. Offer a free PG Feat for having a connection to the town.
I've had a player who was the son of Garridan Viskalai (and therefore the Sherrif's nephew). Another player who joined later was an elf, and the son of Tsuto's father, who came to Sandpoint to take responsibility for the damage his father did with his indiscrimate liasons. Another was a slightly less mature player who wanted to start the game with a katana. But you know? There's always a way to work things in; I had the katana be a legacy handed hown by his ranger father who was hired the original Lonjitsu Patriarch scout the area for the Glassworks.. not only explaining the katana but providing a link to the town. Another player was just born and raised in town.. Another player, a bard, was being recruited for a starring role in an upcoming performance in the theatre..
One player came up with a back story where his younger brother tried to mug Madame Mvashti, and he took the rap for him and did time in prison in Magnimar. While in jail he founds religion and became a cleric.
Another local was part of the fire and pitchfork group that confronted the Chopper and personally knew old Sherriff.. they came into story knowing about the tragic loss of the Mayor, and how the Sherriff had only turned to drink when the Chopper's reign of terror was at a fevered pitch
Add a backstory: get a free feat.
As for Arson.. I tried the wet climate thing with some limited success. Just as a disclaimer, I finally just warned them that it irritated the hell out of me and it was a good way to get on the GM's bad side. The direct approach kinda worked well too ;)
Where to start... Keep in mind the advancing sphere of influence the players cover. They go from a village to across the region and to another plane. Keep track of the Sihedron medalions. One of my players still has his character wearing the blasted thing in Xin Shalast so Karzoug the Claimer knows their every move. It's precious. Be prepared to flesh out places on the fly like Turtleback Ferry. One of my player's PC took Shelelu as his cohort and snuggle buddy. One other got Vin's daughter pregnant while rat killing which opened a whole new can of worms for him. The adventure is made to add on those player touches.
Oh!
I foreshadowed Ironbriar in Chapter One, the second time I ran it.
Sherriff Hemlock, in my campaign, does answer to one of the Justices in Magnimar, who divide up the administration of all the holdings.
(A list of Magnimar's specific holdings can be found in the Chapter 3 Guide to Varisia).
In my interpretation each Justice is responsible for reviewing the reports and decisions of the local law enforcement offical in each holding. Often the Adventure Path refers to sending criminals back to Magnimar for trial, except when circumstances don't permit it.
So.. when Tsuto commits suicide, Sherriff Hemlock has to write up an entire report of the Goblin Raid incident. Who does Hemlock send this report..? Ironbriar.
Now I don't use this to screw over the players by giving Ironbriar too much information, that would be unfair.. but it does foreshadow events.
Also, at the conclusion of Burnt Offerings.. there is a pointer to Magnimar where Nualia had connections to the Skinsaw Men. Having Ironbriar be the Justice who oversees Hemlock and Sandpoint, that connection is bridged later when the PCs puzzle everything out.
Also another bit of continuity you can flesh out is the money trail.
Nualia pays well, and usually in platinium. When Ironbriar is later caught or confesses, I hint that Nualia got her "seed money" to hire the human parts of her gang from Xanesia.
All that helps, because you'll notice Hook Mountain doesn't exactly divorce itself from the ongoing conspiracy, but the players have to find it again seemingly by coincidence.
You'll definitely want to check out the Community Creation Thread for tons of homebrew play-aids.
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Be prepared to cheat somewhat to avoid TPK by Xanesha at the end of Skinsaw Murders. Even with the behaviour written in the module, that she goes the melee route (not particularly intelligent on her part, but presumably emotion was ruling her head) until below 60hp, it could be nasty. Scaring the players into getting at least Protection from Evil before they head into what turns out to be a zone of silence will protect them from the weirdness of an at-will DC21 Charm Monster spell (and at CL 8, why hasn't she charmed at least hundreds of people to form a virtual army? Or maybe she has).
Of course, your players may survive without you cheating (by which, I mean, not playing her like an Int 16 adversary), but I wouldn't say their chances are good enough to entirely play it straight.
CEO
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Beware of problem solving via arson. There's a tendency to want to just burn Thistletop, Foxglove Manor, and the Graul House down. Discourage arson right from the beginning and stomp on it.
I agree with this one. Since it is the beginning of the rainy season, I had the weather being a cold, drizzly rain for the first few volumes. Then when the characters tried to burn these places down, I told them how futile their attempts were. Ever tried to burn damp wood in a campfire? Almost impossible. After a few failed attempts, they got the picture and went about it the way it was intended.
-Lisa
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CEO
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I foreshadowed Ironbriar in Chapter One
I did the same thing, but in a slightly different way. The group actually captured Nualia and found that Sandpoint didn't have the right to charge for capital crimes, so she needed to go to Magnimar. The justice that oversaw her trial? Ironbriar, of course. She was sentenced to a hefty prison stay and the players were satisfied watching her being led away in chains to the dungeons below.
Of course, at the end of volume two, when they were fighting Ironbriar, you can guess who was at his side. Yep, Nualia. :)
-Lisa
I foreshadowed Ironbriar in Chapter OneI did the same thing, but in a slightly different way. The group actually captured Nualia and found that Sandpoint didn't have the right to charge for capital crimes, so she needed to go to Magnimar. The justice that oversaw her trial? Ironbriar, of course. She was sentenced to a hefty prison stay and the players were satisfied watching her being led away in chains to the dungeons below.
Of course, at the end of volume two, when they were fighting Ironbriar, you can guess who was at his side. Yep, Nualia. :)
-Lisa
Oooooh.. nice. Wished I had thought of that, but my Nualia wasn't lending herself to capture. If had thought of that, I might have let be a more viable choice.
Unfortunately, two iterations of Runelords is enough, I'm anxious to try a different AP. Got my eyes on Kingmaker.
I foreshadowed Ironbriar in Chapter OneI did the same thing, but in a slightly different way. The group actually captured Nualia and found that Sandpoint didn't have the right to charge for capital crimes, so she needed to go to Magnimar. The justice that oversaw her trial? Ironbriar, of course. She was sentenced to a hefty prison stay and the players were satisfied watching her being led away in chains to the dungeons below.
Of course, at the end of volume two, when they were fighting Ironbriar, you can guess who was at his side. Yep, Nualia. :)
-Lisa
I did the exact same thing, but with Tsuto.
He was sentenced to death by Ironbriar after the PC’s had testified.
First Group stayed for the execution and made sure he was dead, I incorporated that in Xanesha’s letter at Foxglove Manor, she wrote about those damn hero’s who where at the execution, preventing her from rescuing an alley – made the players proud.
Second group had this conversation:
“Hmm, maybe we should stay around for the execution”
“Why bother, the city has to take care of him, not our problem anymore, let’s go and buy magic items”
:-D
just this Friday they had to fight him again (killed him unceremoniously – but learned a lesson)
In mine I've got the same deal with Tsuto...only he won't be executed. He'll be transported from Sandpoint to Magnimar (which will be fun, as a band of "loyal" goblins are going to try and break him out) and be scentenced to Black Arrow duty for fifty years or so...so the party will then transport him to Fort Rannik (sp?) which will have the occassional random encounter. Justice Ironbriar will be the judge over seeing the trial, which will give the party a chance to interact with him a little, and also give me the opportunity to foreshadow Skinsaw by having the party hear about a couple bodies showing up while their in town (thanks Charles!). Durring Hook Mt Tsuto is going to escape and be sorta a wild car element...ganking the occassional solitary ogre out of spite, and going after the PCs as soon as they show up on the scene.
I think after this my group is likely to never take anyone alive again, ever. They already uncerimoniously bash skulls and slit throats every time an enemy goes down after the cleric used his chanel energy to heal the party durring the Sandpoint raide and the goblin commando hopped back up and shanked the monk. I thought they were going to draw and quarter the poor bugbear's body in Thistletop before the cleric was even allowed in the room...
I think after this my group is likely to never take anyone alive again, ever.
It would be even more fun to have Jakardos be certain there is a traitor and then the party will think it is Tsuto and hunt him down. Maybe Tsuto even knows the truth...
Well I'm curious how Twowolves' game turned out...
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It went pretty smoothly, for the most part. I STILL failed to mention a lot of little things, like the complaints about the sawmill working so late, a certain Vinder daughter making eyes at an employee of said sawmill, forgot to mention the stained glass Nualia in the new cathedral, no Black Arrows or gambling halls on distant barges, etc etc. However, I'm sure that the next time we meet, the characters will get to hear more rumors, and this might make the setting even more evocative.
I used color printouts of the Goblin Battle, cut the buildings out and stuck them to the flipmat of the city square (blank side), and added the Streets of Shadow tiles for more terrain. I had 95% painted goblins, paper stand-up goblins, plastic and metal minis for all the NPCs, and the big Map Folio maps of the region and Sandpoint. This was their first real experience with Golarion too, so a little set up beforehand with the races, geography, languages, etc. was in order.
We got started a little late, and had to finish characters (HeroLab on 3 laptops helped immensely with that, and characters printed on cardstock rule!). Highlights included:
The dwarven ranger, in his quest for info on the Sandpoint Devil, got to speak with an obviously drunken Farmer Grump ("It done stole my prize sow!").
The same dwarven ranger, upon complaining at the lack of good whiskey at the Rusty Dragon, getting a whispered tip about Vin VInder's private stock.
The elven wizard rolling a natural 1 on his save after being subjected to a critical hit from a goblin pyro's torch, and being set on fire (this player has a long history of his spellcasters being set on fire). At lest now he has to go shopping for new clothes (and can interact with the NPCs even more).
The varisian bard (oratory) rolling a natural 20 on his first Perform/Oratory roll in front of a packed common room at the Rusty Dragon, getting the party a round of applause, a nod of approval from Ameiko, and a free night's room and board.
The same bard using a whip to disarm two goblins, all to the tune of the theme from Raiders of the Lost Ark.
The human female cleric of Sarenrae being the object of a certain thankful nobleman's attentions....
All in all, it was really good. I now need to get to work painting a certain quasit and war-razor wielding madman....
I really enjoy this topic Twowlves, especially for the summary of rumors, interesting facts happened during the game... I would suggest you to continue doing something like that, perhaps in the campaign journals section.
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In addition to the great advice given thus far, I would also add this, have your players have either a concept or actual replacement character ready to go. The first installment has been pretty rough for both groups I am running; two deaths in one group (they just defeated Nualia and have not gone into the rest of the complex) and three deaths in the other (one being against Mr. M at the end of Burnt Offerings ... two rounds and it was one dead paladin).
My thoughts...
Having just wrapped up Skinsaw Murders, I'll caution that you look hard at Xanesha and your party before you toss them into the blender that she is. Fully buffed, she'll likely tear up a party without breaking a sweat.
For my part, I had her take off after the party barely whittled her down to under 100 hps... figured her plan had been blown, so no percentage in hanging around. I'll have her turn up later.
I'd also suggest thinking about some way to get the PCs off to Hook Mountain other than the obviousness of having the Lord-Mayor hired them to go. In my case, the PCs let Orik go, so I had him end up with the Black Arrows in Fort Rannick. They're heading up that way to investigate ... his last letter mentioned the sihedron tatoos he'd seen on villagers, and then the letters stopped.
Feels more organic, and less like I'm railroading them. Particularly with the other story threads out there for them to explore (like the barghest in Thistletop, the haunted Foxglove Manor, etc.)
To tie them to Sandpoint, I also had Ameiko give them the Glassworks ... with her father dead and most of the staff killed, there's no one left to do the unique glass that made it important. Now it's their HQ, with an alchemy lab and forge and trophy room.
In addition to the great advice given thus far, I would also add this, have your players have either a concept or actual replacement character ready to go. The first installment has been pretty rough for both groups I am running; two deaths in one group (they just defeated Nualia and have not gone into the rest of the complex) and three deaths in the other (one being against Mr. M at the end of Burnt Offerings ... two rounds and it was one dead paladin).
Yes, the AP can be a bit combat intensive
Have an idea for their replacement character would also give you, the GM, a leg up on weaving the new character into the party.
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I did this very same thing with my group, and the party gets a kick out of it when they "run into themselves" walking around town. I based all of the backups in Sandpoint so it wasn't such a stretch that a complete stranger would suddenly join up and be invested in the storyline if someone dies along the way in an unrecoverable way (low level or gets eaten)
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I have read many many horror stories about Xanesia. I think I'll swap out the Wand of Knock at the end of Foxglove Manor for a Wand of Dispel Magic and see where that gets me. I have a feeling PRPG characters will be in better shape to take on a challenge like this at that level, but it's just a hunch.
I also will try to have a different connection to HMM. A letter from one lamia sister to another seemed a good way to go, as does rumors of more sidhedron runes tattooed on people there. I think I have quite some time to figure it out however.
Thanks to all for the replies!
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I have read many many horror stories about Xanesia. I think I'll swap out the Wand of Knock at the end of Foxglove Manor for a Wand of Dispel Magic and see where that gets me. I have a feeling PRPG characters will be in better shape to take on a challenge like this at that level, but it's just a hunch.
Bear in mind that Dispel Magic in PFRPG isn't what it was in 3.5.
I also will try to have a different connection to HMM. A letter from one lamia sister to another seemed a good way to go, as does rumors of more sidhedron runes tattooed on people there. I think I have quite some time to figure it out however.
Thanks to all for the replies!
That's a good call.. HMM does seem to seperate itself a little from the rest of the AP. Not completely.. because it's all part of the larger conspiracy.. except that as written the party stumbles on to it seemingly by coincidence.
My biggest advice would be to try and tie the character backgrounds into as much of the plot as possible.
Examples would be a fighter who has worked for the town guard and knows people there, or one of the PCs comes from one of the farm families hit by the ghouls in the second adventure (particularly effective if it is their father who rides into town all crazy eyed), etc.
Sean Mahoney
The important stuff has been touched on already, so I'll just add voice to the chorus: Foreshadow as much as possible from the later adventures in the early adventures. By the time you reach #3, the PCs should be -connected- with elements within the world that will facilitate the sort of storylines that happen later on.
Have a great time!
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There is a Campaign Journals section??
Hi,
Here I'm not sure if you were joking, but in case you weren't, I would like to point you to the Campaign Journal section of the message board.
If you have some time on your hands and want extra information on top of the excellent tips already provided by other people in this thread, I invite you to read my RotRL campaign journal.
Good luck!
Moonbeam
For me the best advice (other than singing and playing the mp3 of the goblin song during the battle), was handing out physical objects, like the badge labeling them "Heroes of Sandpoint" someone on the boards posted. The item cards work well too.
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I have a hard time "getting" the item cards. I mean, I can't hand out one for every little bit of treasure they find (card selection not broad enough, or the item card is waaaay too specific on details), and there aren't enough cards to cover all the plain-jane equipment out there (4 backpacks, 4 10' poles, etc etc). So what do you DO with them? Use just the really unique special items from the RotRL specific deck?
I was 100% serious about the Campaign Journal forum. I had no idea it existed, but yet I had read some of Moonbeam's journal. It had to have been linked from some post in this forum, though. There are lots of good ideas in there Moonbeam, thanks! One question though, did you guys play it out like that, or is that your after-action embellishment?
It's too late for the sound file of the goblin song, but I did get my goblin (gremlin) voice on. One Charmed Warchanter interogation later, and I think I have it down pat! I do intend to get as many fan-created maps and handouts (Skinsaw notes, Tsuto's journal, the hand drawn maps of Fort Rannik, etc), and use flip-mats and dungeon tiles and painted/accurate pre-painted minis as much as I can.
Thanks all!
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I was 100% serious about the Campaign Journal forum. I had no idea it existed, but yet I had read some of Moonbeam's journal. It had to have been linked from some post in this forum, though. There are lots of good ideas in there Moonbeam, thanks! One question though, did you guys play it out like that, or is that your after-action embellishment?
Yeah, I did a lot of embellishment here and there, especially in the last adventure, where I added entire scenes in the log that were never actually played (like those that involved only NPCs, in the siege of Xin-Shalast).
Hijacking the thread:
I started another RotRL-campaing today and this topic really helped me out. When the first started RotRL-campaing I didn't know about Paizo community and how great these boards really were. Also it was first time in ~five years that I sat behind GM's screen. Our first session wasn't terrible but my GMing skills were really really rust. Now they are middle of FotSG and I enjoy being GM more than ever.
PCs who started today were diffenrent. I knew where I made mistakes and I checked lot of things here to make start better. These thread really helped me. I showed them lots of people who live in Sandpoint and always picked some important NPC from the crowd. Now they have noticed that farmer Grump is little bit alcoholic farmed and they believed every word that Aldern told them [first group got annoyed and never wanted to go Magnimar to see him]. Eventhough session was short [2.5h] start was better than with the first group.
I want to say that this messageboard is really great and this thread helped me a lot today. Thanks!
Here's those badges I was talking about:
Hero of Sandpoint Badge
Savior of Sandpoint Badge
Guardian of Sandpoint Badge
I have a hard time "getting" the item cards. I mean, I can't hand out one for every little bit of treasure they find ... So what do you DO with them?
I use them for masterwork items early on, then magic items, and then "cool/strong" magic items from about book 3-4 on. It's not really important to use them super consistently, but I think it really gives people a sense of *treasure*.
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Reread everything before the sessions begin. Pay close attention to the CRs and DRs of the monsters. If you're party isn't high enough level, don't have the proper gear, didn't buy the proper gear... find ways to get them more xp (more encounters, new rooms, whatever) and the proper gear.
Otherwise they're just going to die.
I want to say that this messageboard is really great and this thread helped me a lot today. Thanks!
I am running the best campaign of my GM career right now, but it is only because I have a thousand GMs before me who have run this game and offer advice and materials. The forums really are one of the best features of the adventure paths. So I second your thanks, to everyone!