Would a charging, raging 4th level barbarian degenerate ogre with the knockback rage ability, imp. knockback, and greater knockback that knockbacks a PC get an AoO (from greater knockback) when the PC leaves the ogres threatened area?
To break it down:
The ogre charges adjacent to the PC and attempts a knockback (using the knockback rage ability) with a CMB of 24(7 BAB + 10 STR + 1 size + 2 Imp knockback + 2 greater knockback + 2 charge) for 10 points of damage (knockback rage ability).
If the PC leaves the Ogre's reach enhanced threatened area would the ogre then get an AoO?
Would a PC that's flying through the air from a knockback have any penalties to their AC?
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Would a charging, raging 4th level barbarian degenerate ogre with the knockback rage ability, imp. knockback, and greater knockback that knockbacks a PC get an AoO (from greater knockback) when the PC leaves the ogres threatened area?
To break it down:
The ogre charges adjacent to the PC and attempts a knockback (using the knockback rage ability) with a CMB of 24(7 BAB + 10 STR + 1 size + 2 Imp knockback + 2 greater knockback + 2 charge) for 10 points of damage (knockback rage ability).
If the PC leaves the Ogre's reach enhanced threatened area would the ogre then get an AoO?
Would a PC that's flying through the air from a knockback have any penalties to their AC?
I take it you mean improved bull rush and greater bull rush...
Firstly forcing an opponent to move (regardless of how far they move) does not provoke an attack of opportunity, You only provoke during your action.
Secondly your action of greater bull rush provokes the attack of opportunity, not the opponents movement. but this specifically states you do not get one.
so the answer is no to the first question.
As for the AC penalty I wouldnt say a PC leaves the floor during this action since bull rush doesnt say your knocked prone. I might consider asking a character to make an acrobatics check if hit so hard it exceeded his normal movement and if he fails suffers no more than considering the PC to be knocked prone.
I take it you mean improved bull rush and greater bull rush...
Firstly forcing an opponent to move (regardless of how far they move) does not provoke an attack of opportunity, You only provoke during your action.
Secondly your action of greater bull rush provokes the attack of opportunity, not the opponents movement. but this specifically states you do not get one.
so the answer is no to the first question.
As for the AC penalty I wouldnt say a PC leaves the floor during this action since bull rush doesnt say your knocked prone. I might consider asking a character to make an acrobatics check if hit so hard it exceeded his normal movement and if he fails suffers no more than considering the PC to be knocked prone.
First all, you assumed correctly and thanks for the clarification.
The reason I was wonder about the AoO is because it looks like there are technically two possible AoO's being generated.
One from the feat, which they don't get, fair enough.
The second AoO would come if the charater was knocked far enough away to leave the reach threatened square. The reach AoO doesn't care why the character moved where they did only that they left the square.
That's the AoO I'm talking about
Now, I can see if you don't provoke, you don't provoke. But it looked like it could work differently for creatures with reach because they have an additional opportunity for an AoO.
As for the AC I was more asking what you're AC might be if you're hit (AoO) DURING a bullrush. It might be hard to dodge blows while you're staggering backwards.
I would say that because you are moving the enemy, you're already in the middle of the swing and can't recover fast enough to make another attack. However, even without the bull rush feats, I would give adjacent party members AoOs.
Owner - D20 Hobbies
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This has been debated before on WotC for similar issues.
The ability doesn't specifically say that the movement caused by the knockback is free of "AoO from movement" risk, so the rules on leaving a threatened square are in force RAW wise.
There are those that interpret the RAW by assuming the authors thought about leaving a threatened square when they wrote the ability and therefor by not mentioning that you do get the AoO then you don't get the AoO.
It comes down to:
1) It doesn't say I can get the AoO
2) It doesn't say they avoid the AoO
Your DM will pick one of the two. I personally pick #2 in my games, as I think it is the cleaner RAW.
From the description of Bull Rush under combat section; An enemy being moved by a bull rush does not provoke an attack of opportunity because of the movement unless you possess the Greater Bull Rush feat.
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Owner - D20 Hobbies
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From the description of Bull Rush under combat section; An enemy being moved by a bull rush does not provoke an attack of opportunity because of the movement unless you possess the Greater Bull Rush feat.
Thought he was talking about Awesome Blow (or knockback or whatever it was the name.)
Is he talking about Bull Rush?
Would a charging, raging 4th level barbarian degenerate ogre with the knockback rage ability, imp. Bull Rush, and greater Bull Rush that knockbacks a PC get an AoO (from greater knockback) when the PC leaves the ogres threatened area?
To break it down:
The ogre charges adjacent to the PC and attempts a knockback (using the knockback rage ability) with a CMB of 24(7 BAB + 10 STR + 1 size + 2 Imp knockback + 2 greater knockback + 2 charge) for 10 points of damage (knockback rage ability).
If the PC leaves the Ogre's reach enhanced threatened area would the ogre then get an AoO?
Would a PC that's flying through the air from a knockback have any penalties to their AC?
The answer is no.
First, I am not sure what a degenerate ogre is, but unless it adds +2 to your barbarian's BAB, he meet the prerequisites and cannot take Greater Bull Rush. Even then, he needs two other feats, Improved Bull Rush and Power Attack, so unless degenerate ogre gives him a freebie, this character only has two feats, one at level 1 and one at level 2.
So, assuming for some reason he is qualified to have Greater Bull Rush (or maybe he waits until level 5 or 7 to take it), the answer is still no.
Here's why:
An enemy being moved by a bull rush does not provoke an attack of opportunity because of the movement unless you possess the Greater Bull Rush feat.
So, your degenerate ogre barbarian can send his foe reeling (or flying) across the battlefied, and nobody gets an AoO, regardless or whether they have reach weapons or not.
Unless this degenerate ogre barbarian does have Greater Bull Rush, in which case he still cannot get an AoO:
Whenever you bull rush an opponent, his movement provokes attacks of opportunity from all of your allies (but not you).
I bolded that last bit. Now you send him reeling/flying, and all your allies can smack him, but you still cannot.
So, in the end, our poor degenerate ogre barbarian is never going to get to AoO his enemies after he bull rushes them.
And, nowhere in any of those rules do they make any exceptions for reach weapons, and since the normal rule is that bull rushed victims do not provoke AoOs (even from reach weapons), and nothing overrides that regarding the actual bull rushing attacker, then the rule still stands.
No AoO.
The degenerate ogre's allies will love him for taking that feat, if he can line it up right to send the enemy flying through his allies' threatened squares often enough to be worth it.
The Degenerate ogre is from the classic monsters revisited. It has a BAB of 3 before the 4 levels of barbarian are added on. So when it gets a feat at 3rd level it has the necessary BAB for Greater Bull Rush. Power attack comes from it's monster HD (they're listed as having multiattack and power attack).
So it does meetthe necessary requirements.
Once I boil it down I suppose I was just wondering about the affects of reach with the use of the Greater Bull Rush feat.
I didn't think it would work, but it sounded just fun enough to talk it through.
Thanks for the feedback everyone.
James,
From the barbarian class under rage powers;
Knockback (Ex): Once per round, the barbarian can make
a bull rush attempt against one target in place of a melee
attack. If successful, the target takes damage equal to the
barbarian’s Strength modifier and is moved back as normal.
The barbarian does not need to move with the target if
successful. This does not provoke an attack of opportunity.
So to answer your question the OP is talking about bull rush. Although the barbarian's knockback version does have a notable difference. That difference being that the barbarian can use a bull rush in place of a melee attack, whereas anyone else must use a standard action (if not charging). Pretty nasty I think. And the damage is a nice bonus too. And to the OP, by all means grab knockback for your degenerate ogre, but skip the other two feats. That way you can smack your opponent with your first attack, then bull rush him with your second, thereby driving him outside of attack range. Now he will draw that aoo you want if he closes with you again.
James,
From the barbarian class under rage powers;
Knockback (Ex): Once per round, the barbarian can make
a bull rush attempt against one target in place of a melee
attack. If successful, the target takes damage equal to the
barbarian’s Strength modifier and is moved back as normal.
The barbarian does not need to move with the target if
successful. This does not provoke an attack of opportunity.So to answer your question the OP is talking about bull rush. Although the barbarian's knockback version does have a notable difference. That difference being that the barbarian can use a bull rush in place of a melee attack, whereas anyone else must use a standard action (if not charging). Pretty nasty I think. And the damage is a nice bonus too. And to the OP, by all means grab knockback for your degenerate ogre, but skip the other two feats. That way you can smack your opponent with your first attack, then bull rush him with your second, thereby driving him outside of attack range. Now he will draw that aoo you want if he closes with you again.
Actually, there's going to be a bunch of ogres with the Greater Bull Rush, so I'll probably keep it. I'm hoping to get 2 or 3 AoO's per knockback once things get going.
Actually, there's going to be a bunch of ogres with the Greater Bull Rush, so I'll probably keep it. I'm hoping to get 2 or 3 AoO's per knockback once things get going.
Nice! Though remember they only get one AOO each (unless they have high dexterity and combat reflexes).
Actually, there's going to be a bunch of ogres with the Greater Bull Rush, so I'll probably keep it. I'm hoping to get 2 or 3 AoO's per knockback once things get going.Nice! Though remember they only get one AOO each (unless they have high dexterity and combat reflexes).
They don't have anything close to that, but extra attacks are extra attacks.
Especially since the Barbarian in the party can almost kill a 90 hp ogre in one round. They ogres will be dropping like flies once things get going.