A little gem about 0 level spells.

[DigMarx]

Spacelard wrote:

*goes back to making thai green curry*

Gaeng kieow mai? Mee khanom jin duai, na? Aroi mak, khap! :)

Zo

[Spacelard]

DigMarx wrote:

Spacelard wrote:

*goes back to making thai green curry*

Gaeng kieow mai? Mee khanom jin duai, na? Aroi mak, khap! :)

Zo

Errr...Yes! I think.

[DigMarx]

Spacelard wrote:

DigMarx wrote:

Spacelard wrote:

*goes back to making thai green curry*

Gaeng kieow mai? Mee khanom jin duai, na? Aroi mak, khap! :)

Zo

Errr...Yes! I think.

Hehe. In Tinglish: "green curry? you got noodles? It's delicious!" Are you into Thai food? Try Moo Nam Tok; "waterfall pork" and sticky rice. Thai food at its best. Living in Bangkok is great for the taste-buds, but hell on the waistline.

Zo

[Adam Daigle]

LazarX wrote:

...or some other gimcracky...

Thank you for the new word. I'll file this one just before mumpsimus and petty-fogger. :)

[james maissen]

Jason Bulmahn wrote:

Folks, James is right on here.

If you use a higher level slot, for any reason, be it because it is modified with metamagic, or you just prepared it in a higher slot, it is consumed when cast, just like any other spell. Only when it uses a 0-level slot, it is not consumed.

There is some poor wording there that I am going to correct the next time I am able.

And please folks.. play nice.

Jason Bulmahn
Lead Designer
Paizo Publishing

Why not errata metamagics so that they actually increase the effective level of the spell? In essence do incorporate heighten spell into all metamagic spells.

What does keeping it the 3e way accomplish beyond inertia?

In general a metamagic'd spell bumped up the proper levels is in keeping with a normal spell of that level, so why have a lower DC? There doesn't really seem to be a game balance reason for this that I'm seeing.

Likewise it removes a level of confusion between different uses of the word 'level' which *can't* be a bad thing!

If you don't then I'd strongly consider simply allowing metamagic'd cantrips to be cast at-will. The point of those spells is that they are not overly powered, and even when you quicken and fell (assuming you allow fell into your game) an acid splash you are talking about an action investment rather than a resource one. It's a simple extension of allowing a damaging at-will spell.

If you don't do either, then you will really need to reword the section and make clear the distinction between memorized level (i.e. slot level) and spell level. This is also a problem with things like pearls of power and the like, which is why I think getting rid of this complication isn't a bad thing to do for Pathfinder.

-James

[Lehmuska]

james maissen wrote:

In general a metamagic'd spell bumped up the proper levels is in keeping with a normal spell of that level, so why have a lower DC? There doesn't really seem to be a game balance reason for this that I'm seeing.

Simple example: Empowered Fireball vs cone of cold at caster level 10.

Empowered fireball (5th level slot) at caster level 10 deals 10d6 * 1.5 This is roughly the same as 15d6.

A Cone of cold (5th level slot) at caster level 10 deals 10d6 points of damage.

[tejón]

Lehmuska wrote:

Empowered fireball (5th level slot) at caster level 10 deals 10d6 * 1.5 This is roughly the same as 15d6.

A Cone of cold (5th level slot) at caster level 10 deals 10d6 points of damage.

But that's because Cone of Cold is terrible. Try comparing to Cloudkill.

[Lehmuska]

I did the closest comparison. Damage to damage. Apples to Apples.

[tejón]

Lehmuska wrote:

Apples to Apples.

Organic Braeburns to crabapples picked green, though. ;)