RPG Superstar 2008 Top 32, 2011 Top 16
|
I noticed that this item is the same price as in 3.5, but I can't figure out why it's so cheap. It grants SR 20, and on top of that protects from 12 energy drain or death effects. Considering that the pricing guidelines indicate that SR should be priced at 10,000 per point over SR 12, I would think this item would cost 80,000, plus more for the absorption of the death or energy drain effects. Instead it's priced at 38,000.
I noticed that this item is the same price as in 3.5, but I can't figure out why it's so cheap. It grants SR 20, and on top of that protects from 12 energy drain or death effects. Considering that the pricing guidelines indicate that SR should be priced at 10,000 per point over SR 12, I would think this item would cost 80,000, plus more for the absorption of the death or energy drain effects. Instead it's priced at 38,000.
SR 20 is only a caster level 8th, yet the item packs a whopping caster level of 18th - if anything, it should either be price-adjusted with an SR to match its CL, or the CL to make it reduced to match the primary benefit (SR 20).
|
RPG Superstar 2008 Top 32, 2011 Top 16
|
Because it is a limited use item.
You have no control over whether or not you use the drain protection effect. So you could only have it for one battle before it turns to dust.
Yes, but first, the SR would kick in on many of the effects that make it limited use, and also, while it could be sucked dry in a fight against energy draining undead quickly, it could also be taken off for that fight, and put on when facing spellcasters, and effectively become a half price SR 20 item.
Yes, but first, the SR would kick in on many of the effects that make it limited use, and also, while it could be sucked dry in a fight against energy draining undead quickly, it could also be taken off for that fight, and put on when facing spellcasters, and effectively become a half price SR 20 item.Because it is a limited use item.
You have no control over whether or not you use the drain protection effect. So you could only have it for one battle before it turns to dust.
By the time you can afford an 80000 gp item a SR of 20 is basically useless.
SR 20 is only a caster level 8th, yet the item packs a whopping caster level of 18th - if anything, it should either be price-adjusted with an SR to match its CL, or the CL to make it reduced to match the primary benefit (SR 20).
The caster level of items is not related to the level of the person that made the item. Magic item caster level is used solely for determining how powerful the item appears under detect magic and for purposes of item identification and dispel type effects. It is spelled out that way under the magic item's chapter with the sub heading of Magic Item Descriptions. This is a common item that I think many people are getting mixed up on.
By the time you can afford an 80000 gp item a SR of 20 is basically useless.Yes, but first, the SR would kick in on many of the effects that make it limited use, and also, while it could be sucked dry in a fight against energy draining undead quickly, it could also be taken off for that fight, and put on when facing spellcasters, and effectively become a half price SR 20 item.Because it is a limited use item.
You have no control over whether or not you use the drain protection effect. So you could only have it for one battle before it turns to dust.
If what you say is true, then the pricing of all SR items is wrong. Since creating an item of unlimited SR20 costs 80,000 gp, plain and simple.
So what would be a better pricing structure for SR?
By the time you can afford an 80000 gp item a SR of 20 is basically useless.Yes, but first, the SR would kick in on many of the effects that make it limited use, and also, while it could be sucked dry in a fight against energy draining undead quickly, it could also be taken off for that fight, and put on when facing spellcasters, and effectively become a half price SR 20 item.Because it is a limited use item.
You have no control over whether or not you use the drain protection effect. So you could only have it for one battle before it turns to dust.If what you say is true, then the pricing of all SR items is wrong. Since creating an item of unlimited SR20 costs 80,000 gp, plain and simple.
So what would be a better pricing structure for SR?
I don't think the pricing structure is wrong really, a Mantle of Spell Resistance is 90k for SR 21. And, I think the SR cost for the scarab got cut down since it is a limited use item. As for trying to take it on and off, sure, could be done, but what do you do when you run into a vampire wizard? Or a mix of energy drainers and spellcasters? And, since it eats up a body slot, just taking it off in the heat of the moment would (at least in a game I run) eat a standard action. So, all in all, probably not that overpriced.
Cheap? 38,000 is cheap? Seems awfully expensive to me. Lets see if i wanted to get it now i would be 37,973 gold short. I'm always strapped for cash so anything above a few thousand is expensive to me. Too bad i can't get it, it seems like something that would be very useful for the AP that I'm playing in now.
Cheap? 38,000 is cheap? Seems awfully expensive to me. Lets see if i wanted to get it now i would be 37,973 gold short. I'm always strapped for cash so anything above a few thousand is expensive to me. Too bad i can't get it, it seems like something that would be very useful for the AP that I'm playing in now.
Cheap is a variable term =)
Even a 38k item isn't really affordable until the early teens, unless your willing to short yourself in some other area. Its just cheap compared to other SR granting items.
By the time you can afford an 80000 gp item a SR of 20 is basically useless.Yes, but first, the SR would kick in on many of the effects that make it limited use, and also, while it could be sucked dry in a fight against energy draining undead quickly, it could also be taken off for that fight, and put on when facing spellcasters, and effectively become a half price SR 20 item.Because it is a limited use item.
You have no control over whether or not you use the drain protection effect. So you could only have it for one battle before it turns to dust.If what you say is true, then the pricing of all SR items is wrong. Since creating an item of unlimited SR20 costs 80,000 gp, plain and simple.
So what would be a better pricing structure for SR?
If you are a character the SR you can afford should force an equal level enemy caster to roll an 11, or at least a 10 on the dice. I will look into this, and it is very well possible that instead of saying each SR is worth X amount of gp that I may have to make a chart or use an exponential pricing formula like magic weapons use.
I don't think the pricing structure is wrong really, a Mantle of Spell Resistance is 90k for SR 21. And, I think the SR cost for the scarab got cut down since it is a limited use item. As for trying to take it on and off, sure, could be done, but what do you do when you run into a vampire wizard? Or a mix of energy drainers and spellcasters? And, since it eats up a body slot, just taking it off in the heat of the moment would (at least in a game I run) eat a standard action. So, all in all, probably not that overpriced.By the time you can afford an 80000 gp item a SR of 20 is basically useless.Yes, but first, the SR would kick in on many of the effects that make it limited use, and also, while it could be sucked dry in a fight against energy draining undead quickly, it could also be taken off for that fight, and put on when facing spellcasters, and effectively become a half price SR 20 item.Because it is a limited use item.
You have no control over whether or not you use the drain protection effect. So you could only have it for one battle before it turns to dust.If what you say is true, then the pricing of all SR items is wrong. Since creating an item of unlimited SR20 costs 80,000 gp, plain and simple.
So what would be a better pricing structure for SR?
90000 is way to much for an SR of 21. If you start an adventure from level one you would have to avoid buying magical items as much as possible just to save for it so if you were a real miser you could probably have it by around level or 15, but it would be a huge risk to your character to avoid buying other magic items in the hope to buy that one item.
If you start off at high level you already have the gold. I personally only allow my players to spend 33% of their starting gold on any one item, but some DM's allow 50% so I will go with 50% as a best case scenario. That means you have to be a 15th level character to buy this 90k item. It gives you an SR of 21. If you face an equal level caster he only needs a six on the die to ignore it, and that is assuming he does not have spell penetration and/or is not an elf. If the spell compendium is used the "assay spell resistance" spell means an 11th level caster can ignore the item without even rolling the die. That is way to much to invest in such an item.
90000 is way to much for an SR of 21. If you start an adventure from level one you would have to avoid buying magical items as much as possible just to save for it so if you were a real miser you could probably have it by around level or 15, but it would be a huge risk to your character to avoid buying other magic items in the hope to buy that one item.
If you start off at high level you already have the gold. I personally only allow my players to spend 33% of their starting gold on any one item, but some DM's allow 50% so I will go with 50% as a best case scenario. That means you have to be a 15th level character to buy this 90k item. It gives you an SR of 21. If you face an equal level caster he only needs a six on the die to ignore it, and that is assuming he does not have spell penetration and/or is not an elf. If the spell compendium is used the "assay spell resistance" spell means an 11th level caster can ignore the item without even rolling the die. That is way to much to invest in such an item.
Your analysis is fairly accurate. It is for this reason that I've never taken any SR item seriously, even in 3.5, when I'm spot-generating a high-level character for a one-shot adventure, or when I'm creating a really despicable recurring villain.
There is just too much capital investment on an item that does too little.
However, at least in the games I've run as a DM and played as a player, most items a PC has, at any level, are found rather than bought. Sure, from time to time, a PC takes some item he has outgrown, or an item he won when we drew straws but he doesn't really want it, and he heads off to market to trade/barter it for something more useful. But despite that, most items written on any of our character sheets were items found in treasure hoards.
Ergo, in those games, the price is really only a guideline to the DM as to how much of a monster's hoard is coin and how much is magic items. If a SR item is found in the hoard, it is a significant part of the hoard.
Even so, I think it is overpriced.
From a metagamer standpoint, if we slew a dragon and it had a SR item in it that came into my posession, first thing I would do is run off to the local Magic Mart and trade it in for something(s) more useful.
If you want to make spell resistance useful, you'll make SR items give you a spell resistance of X + Level (or CR in case of monsters).
Here X should be kept quite small, because an 11 would mean that about half of spells cast against you will fail when cast by an equal level caster. A caster 10 levels lower than item's owner would have a 5% chance of penetrating SR, and even a caster 4 levels lower should find another way to deal with the SR owning creature than casting SR:yes spells on it.
One thing to note. If this idea is used, SR should never be based on total HD. This is because HD doesn't often have anything to do with a creature's challenge rating and it's power. For example, a 20 HD skeleton is only CR 8 in PFRPG.