Normal rules state that you can find 4 hours sporadically throughout the day on a normal adventuring day in order to get 2 hours of crafting time in.
However, that's assuming you're a critter that sleeps all night.
Assuming normal downtime is 9 hours (8 sleeping, 1 hour spell prep), having a ring of sustenance means you have an extra 6 hours or free time on your hands.
Since the maximum amount of time you are allowed to craft is 8 hours a day, I figure there are two possibilities:
4 hours (from before) count as 2, where a second 4 hours (from ring of sustenance) could either count as 2, or count as 4, but I'm a little torn on whether you should get 1/2 item crafting rate or 3/4 crafting rate.
Can I get your input, please?
Normal rules state that you can find 4 hours sporadically throughout the day on a normal adventuring day in order to get 2 hours of crafting time in.
However, that's assuming you're a critter that sleeps all night.
Assuming normal downtime is 9 hours (8 sleeping, 1 hour spell prep), having a ring of sustenance means you have an extra 6 hours or free time on your hands.
Since the maximum amount of time you are allowed to craft is 8 hours a day, I figure there are two possibilities:
4 hours (from before) count as 2, where a second 4 hours (from ring of sustenance) could either count as 2, or count as 4, but I'm a little torn on whether you should get 1/2 item crafting rate or 3/4 crafting rate.
Can I get your input, please?
Afraid not.
For non-spellcasters, yes, you could get in 8 hours of crafting a day. Assuming you weren't keeping the spellcasters awake (they don't like that). So you could carve wood or cut and sew leather. But no banging on metal swords or armor.
Spellcasters require 8 hours of rest to pray for the spells. If they are crafting, they are not resting. Even with a ring of sustenance, they have to rest (laze around, not do anything strenuous).
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Sorry mdt, I have to disagree...Pathfinder edition, new text...
Text from Ring of Sustenance.
This ring continually provides its wearer with life-sustaining nourishment. The ring also refreshes the body and mind, so that its wearer needs only sleep 2 hours per day to gain the benefit of 8 hours of sleep. This allows a spellcaster that requires rest to prepare spells to do so after only 2 hours, but this does not allow a spellcaster to prepare spells more than once per day. The ring must be worn for a full week before it begins to work. If it is removed, the owner must wear it for another week to reattune it to himself.
To me, that says you can get your spells after only 2 hours of rest...it doesn't say sleep 2 and be lazy for 6...
I would allow 4 hours of crafting (as there are other duties that must be attended to "in the field"
I would also tack on penalties for field crafting, since it's not so easy to concentrate..."Go away bird, no! don't crap on my scroll!!!"
I really can't see certain craftign being done int he field...such as weaponsmithing...Unless you do it inside a portable hole...but that's a lot of heat for a 6' diameter hole...
Huh,
Well, I missed that then. I've only had my book for 2 weeks (finally got my Amazon shipment, my Paizo shipment appears to have been eaten by the USPS monster).
I stand corrected. Yep, you can. I would say you could then get the entire 6 hours you regain in as crafting. The 'other stuff' referenced above that has to be done is already part of your full day of adventuring.
8 hours travel
3 hours meals/camp setup
4 hours other (originally crafting time in field)
8 hours sleep
1 hour prepare spells
The 8 hours becomes 6 hours Other and 2 hours sleep.
Max you can craft in a day is 8 hours, so... full 8 hours of crafting in.
Agreed, you could get SOME penalties. Fletchery would be a no penalty. A crafting kit would overcome the field penatlies for everything else.
4 hours throughout the day, translate to 2 hours of effective work.
You can only work 8 hours a day, so you would have used half a work day.
If you then work later, you couldn't work 6 hours later (that would bring you up to 10 total hours of work).
I guess my real question is, if you're working through the night with your ring of sustenance on, does that count for half time or full time?
My guess is that it has to mean for half time. Otherwise, you're going to have people splitting hairs over when they're working.
"But I chose to work 6 hours at full rate over night, and only 2 hours during the day! That gets me 7 hours' worth of work done!"
Versus just working the 4 and 4, and only getting credit for 2 and 2.
4 hours throughout the day, translate to 2 hours of effective work.
You can only work 8 hours a day, so you would have used half a work day.
If you then work later, you couldn't work 6 hours later (that would bring you up to 10 total hours of work).
I guess my real question is, if you're working through the night with your ring of sustenance on, does that count for half time or full time?
My guess is that it has to mean for half time. Otherwise, you're going to have people splitting hairs over when they're working.
"But I chose to work 6 hours at full rate over night, and only 2 hours during the day! That gets me 7 hours' worth of work done!"
Versus just working the 4 and 4, and only getting credit for 2 and 2.
That 4 hours translate to 2 is based on the assumption that you can't get a full amount of hours in because you are doing things that are required to live, like eating & drinking. The ring of sustenance get's rid of that completely.
In a normal 8 hours of travel, you have an assumed 2-3 hours of additional time for breaking down and setting up of the camp, cooking/eating breakfast/lunch/dinner, taking care of travel equipment and animals if applicable. The ring of sustenance get's rid of the 'must eat'. That takes out a good hour to hour and a half.
Basically, you can break up the camp, do your 8 hours of travel without stopping to eat (still a few 15 minute rest stops, but not nearly the same amount of time), no hunting after the day of travel ends, no cooking. If you start early and stop early, you can get your full 8 hours of travel in, get an hour of rest, and then do your 8 hours of crafting in a solid block (remember, 8 hours of crafting ALSO includes some rest time and time for eating lunch and such).
Something like :
Pray/Memorize spells : 1 hour (1 hr)
Break down camp : 30 minutes (1.5 hrs)
Travel four hours : 4 hours (5.5 hrs)
Take a break : 30 minutes (6 hrs)
Travel four hours : 4 hours (10 hrs)
Take a break : 30 minutes (10.5 hrs)
Set up camp : 30 minutes (11 hrs)
Craft for four hours : 4 hours (15 hrs)
Take a break : 30 minutes (15.5 hrs)
Craft for Four hours : 4 hours (19.5 hrs)
Take a break : 30 minutes (20 hrs)
Sleep : 2 hours (22 hrs)
Personal Time : 2 hours (24 hrs)
Notice that you're not trying to find time throughout the day, you're waiting until you make camp. This is only allowed because you have the ring of sustenance.
It appears the ring gives the wearer six more useful waking hours. But if you're adventuring, those are still in the field, so are going to be eaten up by the realities of adventuring.
Assuming before the ring we've got a 24 hour day, of which there are 16 awake hours, 4 of which can be used for sporadic crafting, which equate to 2 hours in a perfect lab, the ratio is basically 16/2 which means 8/1, or eight hours of awake time in the field will yield the equivalent of one good hour in the lab.
With 60 minutes in an hour, and 360 minutes in 6 hours, that means the wearer of a ring of sustenance should be able to get an extra 45 minutes of lab equivalent time squeezed out of his extra 6 waking hours. Or, if you want to calculate it over days, an extra 3 hours over 4 days.
The big plus of the ring of sustenance is honestly the ability of the spellcasters to get an uninterrupted rest, as opposed to the regular situation where you can't curl up with your stuffed owlbear for eight hours without some idiotic thing attacking.
It appears the ring gives the wearer six more useful waking hours. But if you're adventuring, those are still in the field, so are going to be eaten up by the realities of adventuring.
Assuming before the ring we've got a 24 hour day, of which there are 16 awake hours, 4 of which can be used for sporadic crafting, which equate to 2 hours in a perfect lab, the ratio is basically 16/2 which means 8/1, or eight hours of awake time in the field will yield the equivalent of one good hour in the lab.
With 60 minutes in an hour, and 360 minutes in 6 hours, that means the wearer of a ring of sustenance should be able to get an extra 45 minutes of lab equivalent time squeezed out of his extra 6 waking hours. Or, if you want to calculate it over days, an extra 3 hours over 4 days.
The big plus of the ring of sustenance is honestly the ability of the spellcasters to get an uninterrupted rest, as opposed to the regular situation where you can't curl up with your stuffed owlbear for eight hours without some idiotic thing attacking.
Uhm,
I'm sorry, are you serious with this? You figure 6 hours of sitting around a campfire at night is only worth 45 minutes of crafting?So... If I'm sitting in a room in town making arrows with a knife, thread, feathers and arrow heads, I can make 20 or so an hour. But sitting in the field around a campfire while 5 other people sleep for 6 hours, I can only make 10 or 12?
You are equating 6 hours of sitting around camp with 16 hours of adventuring. That's... well.. it's insane. It's like saying 'You can sleep for 6 hours, but, if you don't sleep, you can only do 45 minutes worth of work, the rest of the time is spent doing stuff you did during the first 16 hours, and you have to because you are awake'.
Sorry, I give up on this thread. This post just astounds me.
Sitting around a campfire in the wilderness is not going to be undisturbed, even without monsters invading. You're going to be keeping watch alongside the twitchy ranger, the chatty cleric and the rogue who plays mumbletypeg. Trying craft magic scrolls in such a situation would be like trying to write a novel on an airplane. Too many distractions.
If the wizard gets a private room at an inn, or even just casts Tiny Hut for himself, yeah, I could see making the crafting faster. But just sitting out in the wild? Not so much.
I don't see why not. It's just as easy to whittle sticks sitting around a campfire as it is during the 4 hours of the day when you're not actually on the move.
Per the OP it's quite clear that you do your 2-equivalent-hours during a total of four hours of the adventuring day - pretty much stating that working in the field, while keeping watch for enemies and the like, is half as effective in terms of time as working out of a professional lab or residence.
I would personally say you can use that time at the same half-effectiveness you get when trying to scribe a scroll while you're breaking for lunch.
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I think part of what's missing here is:
"If time is dedicated to creation, it must be spent in uninterrupted 4-hour blocks. This work is generally done in a controlled environment, where distractions are at a minimum, such as a laboratory or shrine. Work that is performed in a distracting or dangerous environment nets only half the amount of progress (just as with the adventuring caster)."
IMO a campfire is neither safe or free of distractions. You need to be wary of attack, there's the distractions provided by the other adventurers (Harsk snores like a dragon, Lem is tuning his banjo during his watch and Ezren has old man stink) and consider the lack of a proper workspace (hard to rest your arrow jig on your lap).
If you can retreat to a safe place (like home or a friendly town) or have a "Magnificent Mansion" or "Secure Shelter", that's another story.
Just IMO YMMV
I think part of what's missing here is:
"If time is dedicated to creation, it must be spent in uninterrupted 4-hour blocks. This work is generally done in a controlled environment, where distractions are at a minimum, such as a laboratory or shrine. Work that is performed in a distracting or dangerous environment nets only half the amount of progress (just as with the adventuring caster)."
IMO a campfire is neither safe or free of distractions. You need to be wary of attack, there's the distractions provided by the other adventurers (Harsk snores like a dragon, Lem is tuning his banjo during his watch and Ezren has old man stink) and consider the lack of a proper workspace (hard to rest your arrow jig on your lap).
If you can retreat to a safe place (like home or a friendly town) or have a "Magnificent Mansion" or "Secure Shelter", that's another story.
Just IMO YMMV
See, I am completely ok with this (Ok, I know, so I didn't give up on the thread, sue me). What ticked me off was the concept of 6 hours being 45 minutes of work. Sheesh.
If you look at the posting I had, I had it being done in two 4 hour blocks thanks to the ring. I have no problem with that only counting for 4 hours of work. I have a problem with someone abusing mathematics to whittle that down to 2 hours and 45 minutes (I have a math degree, the math logic in that post was really a serious affront to anyone who put the effort into getting such a degree).
I don't see why not. It's just as easy to whittle sticks sitting around a campfire as it is during the 4 hours of the day when you're not actually on the move.
Per the OP it's quite clear that you do your 2-equivalent-hours during a total of four hours of the adventuring day - pretty much stating that working in the field, while keeping watch for enemies and the like, is half as effective in terms of time as working out of a professional lab or residence.
I would personally say you can use that time at the same half-effectiveness you get when trying to scribe a scroll while you're breaking for lunch.
Exactly. This is why I got upset in the first place. Equating '2 hours credit for 4' to '2 hours credit in 16' is just wrong. 2/4 <> 2/16.