Ability Damage


Pathfinder First Edition General Discussion


I noticed that ability damage doesn't really reduce the actual ability, it just *acts* like it did.

What is the point of this? Wouldn't it have been much simpler just to say when you take ability damage the ability is reduced by a like amount? Done. Instead, they explain all the dependent rolls/abilities that are affected are reduced.

The ONLY rationale I could come up with is that it may have been too tedious to look up new encumbrances if STR was damaged.

Anyway, I fail to see why they went with this approach. If anyone can shed some light, I would love to hear it.


I can see two reasons.

pfsrd wrote:
For every two points of damage you take to a single ability, apply a –1 penalty to skills and statistics listed with the relevant ability.

This means that you don't care if you have an odd or even ability score; damage effects you at the same rate. Assuming you modify the ability score, if you have an even Dex score and take one point of dexterity damage, your AC decreases by one. It doesn't decrease if you have an odd score.

I'd actually see that as an argument against this version of the rule, since it removes one of the few advantages of having an odd stat.

The other is probably simplifying how you calculate the effects of ability damage. Consider a fighter who has Strength 15 and 10 feats that have Power Attack as a prereq. If he takes 5 strength damage and that actually reduces his strength to 10, he no longer qualifies for Power Attack or any of the other feats. Possibly, he also no longer qualifies for his prestige class(es). Rather than "subtract 2 from these rolls", you can argue that he needs to spend the next hour figuring out what his character can (and mostly can't) do without all of those feats.

The wording for strength is also not quite accurate.

pfsrd wrote:
Damage to your Strength score causes you to take penalties on ... weapon damage rolls (if they rely on Strength).

By a strict reading of the rules, a character with a strength of 22 and 12 ability damage (nominally, strength 10), gets a net bonus of +3 to damage rolls with a two handed weapon (1.5*6 - 6 = +3) and a net penalty of -3 with his off-hand weapon (0.5*6 - 6 = -3).

But is also says

pfsrd wrote:
Modify all skills and statistics related to that ability. This might cause you to lose skill points, hit points, and other bonuses.

Are the details given for each ability supposed to be inclusive, or just examples that cover most of the cases? The more I read this, the more confusing it becomes.


During the playtest it was mentioned that ability damage slowed down the game, because you'd have to change a bunch of stats instead of just one. This might be the solution for that problem.


udalrich wrote:


But is also says
pfsrd wrote:
Modify all skills and statistics related to that ability. This might cause you to lose skill points, hit points, and other bonuses.
Are the details given for each ability supposed to be inclusive, or just examples that cover most of the cases? The more I read this, the more confusing it becomes.

This entry refers to ability drain, where the ability actually does get reduced.

I don't see how the system of subtracting from each relevant skill, save, AC, attack, damage, etc. is any simpler than just reducing the ability itself. You get situations like you pointed out with the STR and 2-handed damage. It's obvious what they are intending, but they have to make these lengthy rules... and for what?

If characters losing feats and prestige classes was the main concern, a simple rule that "when determining whether a character meets the prerequisites for any feat/class, use the undamaged ability score" would have been a lot cleaner IMHO.

Sovereign Court

Actually reducing your scores in the middle of combat is a pain... I see the new way of dealing with ability damage being WAY easier to deal with at the table... x damage = y penalty. Easy peasy lemon squeezy!

It's not perfect but it's fast.

--Moon Vrock

Shadow Lodge

Lehmuska wrote:
During the playtest it was mentioned that ability damage slowed down the game, because you'd have to change a bunch of stats instead of just one. This might be the solution for that problem.

That's what I was thinking, (or similar things), but am not sure if this would actually help or not. I don't have my book to check up on it.

Scarab Sages

Doesn't everyone use a computer now to track this stuff, though?

Using MapTool to handle all of my encounters -- and the PC's stats -- means that when damage is done to an ability score, it automatically propagates to anything based on that score.

Qualifying for feats and PrC's is something I hadn't considered, but it doesn't make sense anyway. Just because someone loses 1 point of Str, does that mean they don't have any of the PrC features? That's silly, IMO. Now the issue with Power Attack I can understand, and I think it's completely reasonable to say a feat is lost if the creature can no longer meet the prereqs. (Hmm, MapTool doesn't track that currently. Sounds like I need to tweak some of my existing macros!)

Scarab Sages

also, online character sheets such as at thetangledweb.net or myth-weavers.com have nice auto calcing features that quickly modify many things dependent on ability score.


Beckett wrote:
Lehmuska wrote:
During the playtest it was mentioned that ability damage slowed down the game, because you'd have to change a bunch of stats instead of just one. This might be the solution for that problem.
That's what I was thinking, (or similar things), but am not sure if this would actually help or not. I don't have my book to check up on it.

I think it helps to manage the info on the fly. You don't have to look at the original creature's stats and determine if the 1 point of strength damage knocks him down a bonus level - you just wait until the second point of damage is done and mark down -1 to hit/damage, -1 Str checks next to where you're tracking hp.


I kind of like it in theory, but I'll wait until I've tried out the new ability damage a bit more in practice before I make any commentary on it. It seems neater this way, though.

Shadow Lodge

Bill Dunn wrote:
Beckett wrote:
Lehmuska wrote:
During the playtest it was mentioned that ability damage slowed down the game, because you'd have to change a bunch of stats instead of just one. This might be the solution for that problem.
That's what I was thinking, (or similar things), but am not sure if this would actually help or not. I don't have my book to check up on it.
I think it helps to manage the info on the fly. You don't have to look at the original creature's stats and determine if the 1 point of strength damage knocks him down a bonus level - you just wait until the second point of damage is done and mark down -1 to hit/damage, -1 Str checks next to where you're tracking hp.

That's kind of what I thought. But, so far, (still haven't delved into it yet), it just sems different rather than better. Not bad, just different.

Scarab Sages

archmagi1 wrote:
also, online character sheets such as at thetangledweb.net or myth-weavers.com have nice auto calcing features that quickly modify many things dependent on ability score.

I'm actually in the process of modifying TTW's D&D Profiler sheet for use with PF.

It will have the same features as the existing d20 sheet (links to spells, feats, and skills, for example) but I plan to add a lot of additional automation. For example, I'd like to auto-fill the weights of recognized weapons and armor (perhaps general inventory as well). All lists of items (skills, feats, spells, weapons, etc) will be dynamically sized so that the users can always add "just one more entry".

I'm also fixing some misconfigurations of the existing sheet, such as always using a page width of 7 inches when that should only apply to the printed form (the screen-based form should be 95% of the window width, for example).

I started a thread in their "General Discussion" forum about my plans, if you'd care to review it and offer suggestions for other things you'd like to see. My username over there is 'Elordan'.

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