General rules:
-No fighter-only feats: any prerequisite of “Fighter level X” becomes “Base attack bonus +x”.
-All metamagic feats work as thus(though toyrobot's thread has me tempted to try something weirder).
Specific changes:
ACROBATIC STEPS: Lets you move through 15 feet of difficult terrain. Ignore the “Nimble Moves” prerequisite
NIMBLE MOVES: Gone.
ARCANE ARMOR TRAINING: Does not require a swift action. Can be taken multiple times: it’s effects stack.
ARCANE ARMOR MASTERY: Gone.
ARCANE STRIKE: Damage bonus = level of your highest remaining spell slot.
CATCH OFF-GUARD: Grabbing an improvised weapon is a free action
THROW ANYTHING: Same
COMBAT EXPERTISE: Starts out at -2/+2 (-3/+3 at BAB4, -4/+4 at 8, etc). Higher-level characters may stick to the lower-level mods if they want).
POWER ATTACK: Higher-level characters may stick to the lower-level mods if they want.
DEFLECT ARROWS: Doesn’t work automatically: instead, treats your CMB check as your armor class.
DIEHARD: Adds your level to your “disabled” and “dying” ranges (so, for instance, a level 5 character is staggered from 0 to -5, rather than just at 0. He’s still unconscious at -6).
DISRUPTIVE: Also grants +4 to attacks of opportunity provoked by spellcasting
GREAT CLEAVE- Ignore the “adjacent” clause: you may cleave to any enemy who does not have cover vs. the one you just hit.
GREAT FORTITUDE: +3 bonus
LIGHTNING REFLEXES, IRON WILL: same
GREATER/IMPROVED TWO-WEAPON FIGHTING: gone
TWO-WEAPON FIGHTING: Automatically grants off-hand iteratives at appropriate BAB.
IMPROVED CHANNEL: Also heal +1/level (matching benefits for baleful/benign channeling)
IMPROVED GREAT FORTITUDE/LIGHTNING REFLEX/IRON WILL: Also grants another +2 to the save (thanks Kor)
IMPROVED SHIELD BASH: Prereq: Shield Focus
Shield bonus only applies against the foe you’re hitting with it.
MANYSHOT: Also usable on a (standard) attack action.
RAPID RELOAD: Doesn’t require you to pick a type of weapon. Works for slings too.
SHIELD MASTER: Gone
SHIELD SLAM: Prerequisite: Improved Bullrush (doesn’t require TWF/Imp. shield bash)
Free shield attack when performing a bullrush.
SPELLBREAKER: Foes damaged by you also suffer -5 to concentration checks for 1 round.
Anything jump out at you as a bad idea?
I also have housreuled the hell out of the Pathfinder feats. My Shield Slam and Shield Master changes are the same as your, in fact.
For Arcane Armor, I kept them as listed (but eliminated the swift action activation, of course, in favor of "always active," as you did), and then added a third feat to the chain (-30% spell failure) with prerequsite Heavy Armor Proficiency. One feat taken multiple times is less space-intensive, but lacks the scaling armor proficiency prerequisites.
I rolled GTWF and PTWF into Improved TWF, so on the whole the chain was still drastically shortened, but just not quite as much as yours.
Arcane Strike scaling by spell slot is a cool idea, but a pain in the neck during play if your players are not experts: "Okay, I do 5 damage... no, wait, I already cast confusion, so that's 4 damage... um, do I have any 2nd level slots left?" That would personally drive me bonkers. I might scale it at +1, +1/4 levels, though, to mirror Power Attack, Combat Expertise, et al.
|
Hey, this discussion reminds me of an ooooooold post I made during the Skills and Feats playtest. Many of the idead didn't work well, and other are invalidated by changes made in the final version, but there are a couple that I still think are appropriate and / or cool.
Blind Fight - Benefit: In melee, every time you miss because of concealment, you can reroll your miss chance percentile roll one time to see if you actually hit. An invisible attacker gets no advantages related to hitting you in melee. That is, you don’t lose your Dexterity bonus to Armor Class, and the attacker doesn’t get the usual +2 bonus for being invisible. The invisible attacker’s bonuses do still apply for ranged attacks, however. You do not need to make Acrobatics skill checks to move at full speed while blinded.
When you have 5 skill ranks invested in the Perception skill, you gain tremorsense 5'. For each additional 5 ranks you have, you gain another 5' on the radius of your temorsense. When you have 15 skill ranks in Perception, you gain blind sight 5'. If you have 20 ranks invested in Perception, your blind sight increases to a 10' radius.
Normal: Regular attack roll modifiers for invisible attackers trying to hit you apply, and you lose your Dexterity bonus to AC. The speed reduction for darkness and poor visibility also applies.
Special: The Blind-Fight feat is of no use against a character who is the subject of a blink spell. This is mostly to give meleers without access to high level sensory spells some abilities that aren't supernatural, but help them neutralize some supernatural abilities. It also makes a blind character more playable. I considered giving tremorsense 5' right off, and increasing to a maximum of 25' of tremorsense, but that hurts rogues quite badly. Blindsight of 10' seemed a good maximum to me. As all the senses are rolled into Perception, this is the equivalent of the blind Earthbender girl in Avatar or the Daredevil comic book hero - maximising their other senses to compensate for the missing one.Caught Off-Guard - Prerequisites: Base attack bonus +4.
Benefit: You do not suffer any penalties for using an improvised melee weapon. Unarmed opponents are flat-footed to any attacks you make with an improvised melee weapon.When you have a base attack bonus of at least +8 you may make a bluff attempt as a swift action to render one opponent you threaten flat-footed against you. The number of oppoenents you may attempt this bluff against increases by one every time you base attack bonus has increased by a further 4 points. Opponents you succeed in bluffing against consider you unarmed and harmless - until you attack. This bluff check can only work once / day against any particular opponent with any particular object. Succeeding bluff checks with different objects may still work against an opponent, but the opponent gets +2 to their sense motive for each bluff check allowed by this feat on any day.
Normal: You take a -4 penalty on attack rolls made with an improvised weapon. Simply removing an attack penalty for an action that is sub par even with the penalty removed (weapon damage is still small compared to items built to be weapons of the same size) isn't enough to merit a feat - especially since the situations when a character would need this ability are far and few between for nealy all campaigns and characters. I wanted to increase its usefullness and the fun associated with taking this feat. This feat is wonderful for a cornered and disarmed rogue, and useful for anyone with any bluff ability in a tight spot.Endurance - Benefit: You gain a +4 bonus on the following checks and saves: Swim checks made to resist nonlethal damage from exhaustion, Constitution checks made to continue running, Constitution checks made to avoid nonlethal damage from a forced march, Constitution checks made to hold your breath, Constitution checks made to avoid nonlethal damage from starvation or thirst, Fortitude saves made to avoid nonlethal damage from hot or cold environments, and Fortitude saves made to resist damage from suffocation. Also, you may sleep in light or medium armor without becoming fatigued.
If you have 5 HD increase your saves against these to +5 and ignore 5' of movement penalty due to encumbrance. If you have 10 HD, you gain +5' to your overland movement speed and saves increase to +6. At 15 HD you ignore 10' of movement penalty due to encumbrance and saves increase to +7. At 20th level you gain another +5' to your overland movement speed and your saves against these effects have a bonus of +8. I would like to give non-magical characters methods to increase their movement or grant them movemement abilities they currently don't have available even at high levels. Leaping from treetop to treetop or scaling a castle's tower quickly shouldn't be too ridiculous to contemplate for a physical character when compared to the ability of wizards at that level who can warp time.
Caught off guard would be so fun with a halfling rogue cornered by drunken bar patrons. Or Blindfight used to create a fighter that just happens to notice an approaching invisible thief. Endurance isn't balanced again Fleet of Foot...hehe. Oh well. They're just ideas.
Hmmm.... seems like Blind-Fight could be rolled into Perception somehow, and thereby eliminate an extraneous feat. Have to think on that. @ Jess: Can you email me your skill and feat ideas? It would be fun to see what other people have come up with.
In our current houseules, there's an advanced "tactical sense" fighter talent (with blind-fight as a prerequisite) that allows you to intuit the true locations of blurred, displaced, blinking, mirror imaged, or project imaged opponents, helping to offset the annoying "impossible to defeat except by another caster" aspect of these defenses.
|
|
Hmmm.... seems like Blind-Fight could be rolled into Perception somehow, and thereby eliminate an extraneous feat.
I dunno. Being able to sense movement around you seems perfect for a feat to me. Even peoplethat pay attention to their senses don't usually develop that skill. I think it's a worth a feat, and I don't want every ranger with maxed perception to be able to do it. :) That's a flavor rather than mechanical thing, though.
Hmmm.... seems like Blind-Fight could be rolled into Perception somehow, and thereby eliminate an extraneous feat.
If you're referring to Jess' blindfight, it kind of already is: a very high perception roll can let you pinpoint an invisible creature using any of a variety of senses. As few wizards take ranks in stealth, skilled fighter-types aren't as helpless as you'd think.
That is, until we start talking FIM (flying invisible mage). Then we're all screwed.
I do like those feats, though I'm not sure why (or, for that matter, how) a character with Caught Off-Guard would bluff more than one person at a time.
Hydro, what do you see as the net intended result of your proposed changes? Instead of looking at each piecemeal, was there an overall impact your were trying to achieve?
You missoverestimate me. There was no net intent; it was all piecemeal. :)
There were a double-handful of feats that I thought were very cool, but which didn't look powerful enough that my players would consider taking them. Then there were a few that I'd always been meaning to try houseruling (TWF, Improved Shield Bash), and one or two that I thought might actually be too good (Deflect Arrows. If I'm a 3rd level archer, I don't want anyone automatically negating my attacks).
Of course, if it turns out I was wrong I can always houserule things back. Really, I'm just a tinkerer and kind of a balance-whore.
|
|
I do like those feats, though I'm not sure why (or, for that matter, how) a character with Caught Off-Guard would bluff more than one person at a time.
My concept for the blind fight was inspired by the daredevil comic hero and the earth bender girl character in Avatar: The Last Airbender who was blind, but could "see" through the earth with her feet (tremorsense, I guess). From there I tried to create a tool that wasn't too powerful, yet could allow the creation of this sort of character. It'd be cool if you could actually create a core player race character that was blind that wasn't helpless in combat, for example.
The idea behind Caught off Guard was a character is trapped, hapless and weaponless. His enemies are gloating, and out of nowhere he expertly pulls this James Bond move where that beer stein catches the overconfident enemies totally off guard. I guess the character would roll a single bluff check to hide their intent to attack with the improvised weapon, then whip it out suddenly to catch any opponents that fail their sense motive check flat footed.
The idea behind Caught off Guard was a character is trapped, hapless and weaponless. His enemies are gloating, and out of nowhere he expertly pulls this James Bond move where that beer stein catches the overconfident enemies totally off guard. I guess the character would roll a single bluff check to hide their intent to attack with the improvised weapon, then whip it out suddenly to catch any opponents that fail their sense motive check flat footed.
I can get behind the idea, but once he wacks one of them (or more if he has multiple attacks), why would the others still lose their dex bonus?
I'd probably just have it last for one round (though, of course, everyone he attacks gets a separate chance to see through the bluff).
|
|
The idea behind Caught off Guard was a character is trapped, hapless and weaponless. His enemies are gloating, and out of nowhere he expertly pulls this James Bond move where that beer stein catches the overconfident enemies totally off guard. I guess the character would roll a single bluff check to hide their intent to attack with the improvised weapon, then whip it out suddenly to catch any opponents that fail their sense motive check flat footed.I can get behind the idea, but once he wacks one of them (or more if he has multiple attacks), why would the others still lose their dex bonus?
I'd probably just have it last for one round (though, of course, everyone he attacks gets a separate chance to see through the bluff).
Ah, I see. Yes, I meant it to be momentary. It would only be effective against multiple opponents with iterative attacks, flurry or cleave or something. Obviously I forgot to state that. Oops!
IMPROVED SHIELD BASH: Prereq: Shield Focus
Shield bonus only applies against the foe you’re hitting with it.SHIELD MASTER: Gone
SHIELD SLAM: Prerequisite: Improved Bullrush (doesn’t require TWF/Imp. shield bash)
Free shield attack when performing a bullrush.
Your sheer hatred of shields has nerfed them to more than usefullness than they were in 3.5
I understand you have improved the TWF niche, but at least keep the old shield bash. Not ONLY did you add a prerque. but you cut the power to an 1/8 of what it was before. While I know you didn't like the idea, it made for a good mechanic for a fantasy game.
Shield slam was fine for the mechanic as it was, but adding improved bullrush was a good idea.
ACROBATIC STEPS: Lets you move through 15 feet of difficult terrain. Ignore the “Nimble Moves” prerequisite
NIMBLE MOVES: Gone.
I'm not a big fan of "builder feats" so I really do like this idea. Its still a pretty good benefit and I would suggest a pre-req of 5 ranks in Acrobatics, instead of the Dex 15.
ARCANE ARMOR TRAINING: Does not require a swift action. Can be taken multiple times: it’s effects stack.
ARCANE ARMOR MASTERY: Gone.
Great idea. If a mage wants to blow all his feats into stacking these feats, let them.
ARCANE STRIKE: Damage bonus = level of your highest remaining spell slot.
Being able to imbue your weapon with magic just because you are an arcane caster just doesn't sit right with me. By drawing the power from a memorized spell/spell slot, this seems more justifiable to me. Although it allows for a possible bonus of +9 to a weapon, if a mage wants to smack a person with a weapon instead of using a 9th level spell, I don't really see a problem. (Combines nicely with the Hand of the Apprentice, Universal school ability).
CATCH OFF-GUARD: Grabbing an improvised weapon is a free action
THROW ANYTHING: Same
These feats are used so infrequently (and given that such improvised weapons don't usually do much damage anyways), I think these feats should be combined into 1 feat "Improvised Weapon Proficiency". The added perk of being able to essentially quick-draw an improvised item is also a nice touch.
COMBAT EXPERTISE: Starts out at -2/+2 (-3/+3 at BAB4, -4/+4 at 8, etc). Higher-level characters may stick to the lower-level mods if they want).
I'm kind of surprised that they don't allow characters to choose a lower-level mod. I'm waffling on starting this at -2/+2. I could maybe go for it if the pre-req was higher, say Int 15. *shrugs* Maybe its fine.
DEFLECT ARROWS: Doesn’t work automatically: instead, treats your CMB check as your armor class.
I do like not having this as an auto-success. This is still a rarely chosen feat, and I think to add it its attractiveness I might also allow the character a chance to deflect 1 arrow per round, with 1 additional chance per every +4 BAB.
DIEHARD: Adds your level to your “disabled” and “dying” ranges (so, for instance, a level 5 character is staggered from 0 to -5, rather than just at 0. He’s still unconscious at -6).
This is a difficult one for me. This feat is certainly more useful at the earlier levels, than the later and your change helps to compensate for this. In the very least, at least the character isn't loosing hp each round. A low level character might think this feat stinks though... but perhaps the over scalability of this is more balanced through the levels. *shrugs*
DISRUPTIVE: Also grants +4 to attacks of opportunity provoked by spellcasting
I like the idea, but I think the bonus might be a bit high. I would probably scale it down to +2.
GREAT CLEAVE- Ignore the “adjacent” clause: you may cleave to any enemy who does not have cover vs. the one you just hit.
A good solid change.
GREAT FORTITUDE: +3 bonus
LIGHTNING REFLEXES, IRON WILL: same
I've house ruled these to be +3 for a long time now. Too bad Paizo didn't jump on board as well. For a feat, +2 to a save is just a little weak to me.
GREATER/IMPROVED TWO-WEAPON FIGHTING: gone
TWO-WEAPON FIGHTING: Automatically grants off-hand iteratives at appropriate BAB.
This is another change I am waving on. It almost sounds too good. But in the alternative, taking a feat to gain an extra attack with -5 or -10 on the attack that only does half your Str damage, isn't exactly great either. This is one I would definately have to play test to judge its balance, but certainly an interesting idea.
IMPROVED CHANNEL: Also heal +1/level (matching benefits for baleful/benign channeling)
I really like this change!
IMPROVED GREAT FORTITUDE/LIGHTNING REFLEX/IRON WILL: Also grants another +2 to the save (thanks Kor)
The current benefit was just too weak, especially for a "builder feat". Leaving the feat effect as it is, and adding the +2 seems like a good balance. (Although now this character is going to have +5 on this save. Hopefully not too good of a stacked benefits -- it might actually justify reducing the pre-req feat bonus to only a +2.. but then we are back to the low-powered builder feat aspect which I detested from 3.5.
IMPROVED SHIELD BASH: Prereq: Shield Focus
Shield bonus only applies against the foe you’re hitting with...
Another change that I really like and makes perfect sense.
I'm thinking of changing most metamagic to be one feat.
Modify Spell: Includes all effects of metamagic feats that only add +1 spell level. Now you can use any one of them 3 + Spellcasting Attribute Bonus number of times per day. Can ONLY apply one effect.
Improved: Can burn 2 uses to apply 2 effects.
Extra Modify spell: Get 3 more uses per day.
Then you can still make the higher feats to still be taken individually, maybe only getting one use per day. Maybe let them take it multiple times to get another use.
This kinda mimics Monte's Arcana Evolved setting.
General rules:
-No fighter-only feats: any prerequisite of “Fighter level X” becomes “Base attack bonus +x”.
This is also a great idea. There should be no "class only" feats. If you want to make it accessible only to 1 class, then it doesn't belong in the feat section, but rather the class abilities section. Either that or change the feat so it ties into the use of a particular class ability.
They could have just listed all the "fighter only feats" as optional class abilities (not feats) that could be selected, or to take a combat feat in lieu -- similar to the rogue talents.
I do not see why any class though, could not have access to the "fighter feats". Weapon Specialization for example simple signifies your specialty in 1 particular weapon. (A character who doesn't have fighter levels, also doesn't benefit from gaining a bonus feat every second level. If they want weapon specialization they are going to have to expend 2 of their level-based feat slots to do it -- a suitable balance in my opinion.)
Your sheer hatred of shields has nerfed them to more than usefullness than they were in 3.5I understand you have improved the TWF niche, but at least keep the old shield bash. Not ONLY did you add a prerque. but you cut the power to an 1/8 of what it was before. While I know you didn't like the idea, it made for a good mechanic for a fantasy game.
Shield slam was fine for the mechanic as it was, but adding improved bullrush was a good idea.
A shield grants +2 AC at 1st level which, with the extra "armor" slot that it grants you, which improves +5 AC (plus an extra armor property) by 20th, with no feat investment and no extra cash spent.
Getting that for free (i.e, getting it and also using your off-hand) with one feat was and has always been insane.
Frankly, if I had to make a call, I would say that the new shield bash was still too powerful. Whenever you go one-on-one you're still getting all the benefits of a shield coupled with all the benefits of duel-wielding.
The sword-and-board duel-wielder of 3.P (i.e, the one that's superior to a sword-and-sword duel-wielder AND a regular shield user in every way) is neither realistic, nor balanced, nor thematically or archetypically satisfying. It has no redeeming qualities and I'm not sad to see it go. However, I will be writing a shield-only feat or two to replace it. I actually like shields; what I hate is the idea that they make better weapon than they do shields (and, incidentally, make better weapons than weapons do).
|
|
The sword-and-board duel-wielder of 3.P (i.e, the one that's superior to a sword-and-sword duel-wielder AND a regular shield user in every way) is neither realistic, nor balanced, nor thematically or archetypically satisfying. It has no redeeming qualities and I'm not sad to see it go. However, I will be writing a shield-only feat or two to replace it. I actually like shields; what I hate is the idea that they make better weapon than they do shields (and, incidentally, make better weapons than weapons do).
Huzzah! Full agreement, sir!
ACROBATIC STEPS: Lets you move through 15 feet of difficult terrain. Ignore the “Nimble Moves” prerequisite
NIMBLE MOVES: Gone.I'm not a big fan of "builder feats" so I really do like this idea. Its still a pretty good benefit and I would suggest a pre-req of 5 ranks in Acrobatics, instead of the Dex 15.
ARCANE ARMOR TRAINING: Does not require a swift action. Can be taken multiple times: it’s effects stack.
ARCANE ARMOR MASTERY: Gone.Great idea. If a mage wants to blow all his feats into stacking these feats, let them.
ARCANE STRIKE: Damage bonus = level of your highest remaining spell slot.Being able to imbue your weapon with magic just because you are an arcane caster just doesn't sit right with me. By drawing the power from a memorized spell/spell slot, this seems more justifiable to me. Although it allows for a possible bonus of +9 to a weapon, if a mage wants to smack a person with a weapon instead of using a 9th level spell, I don't really see a problem. (Combines nicely with the Hand of the Apprentice, Universal school ability).
CATCH OFF-GUARD: Grabbing an improvised weapon is a free action
THROW ANYTHING: SameThese feats are used so infrequently (and given that such improvised weapons don't usually do much damage anyways), I think these feats should be combined into 1 feat "Improvised Weapon Proficiency". The added perk of being able to essentially quick-draw an improvised item is also a nice touch.
COMBAT EXPERTISE: Starts out at -2/+2 (-3/+3 at BAB4, -4/+4 at 8, etc). Higher-level characters may stick to the lower-level mods if they want).I'm kind of surprised that they don't allow characters to choose a lower-level mod. I'm waffling on starting this at -2/+2. I could maybe go for it if the pre-req was higher, say Int 15. *shrugs* Maybe its fine.
...
DEFLECT ARROWS: Doesn’t work automatically: instead, treats your CMB check as
The sword-and-board duel-wielder of 3.P (i.e, the one that's superior to a sword-and-sword duel-wielder AND a regular shield user in every way) is neither realistic, nor balanced, nor thematically or archetypically satisfying. It has no redeeming qualities and I'm not sad to see it go. However, I will be writing a shield-only feat or two to replace it. I actually like shields; what I hate is the idea that they make better weapon than they do shields (and, incidentally, make better weapons than weapons do).
Total agreement from me as well. (Although, if I might English nitpick again, "duel" is a fight, normally between two combatants and governed by rules and/or tradition. "Dual" means paired, which is I think what you were going for.)
The sword-and-board duel-wielder of 3.P (i.e, the one that's superior to a sword-and-sword duel-wielder AND a regular shield user in every way) is neither realistic, nor balanced, nor thematically or archetypically satisfying. It has no redeeming qualities and I'm not sad to see it go. However, I will be writing a shield-only feat or two to replace it. I actually like shields; what I hate is the idea that they make better weapon than they do shields (and, incidentally, make better weapons than weapons do).Total agreement from me as well. (Although, if I might English nitpick again, "duel" is a fight, normally between two combatants and governed by rules and/or tradition. "Dual" means paired, which is I think what you were going for.)
Thanks, appreciated. :)
Don't ask me how many years I've been doing that wrong without realizing it. It makes sense when I read it now, of course, but one's spelling/typing facilities are completely different from their reading facilities.
Hydro, reading your posts, you've got a similar feel for things as Jess Door and myself. If you're ever near Houston, be sure to give us a heads-up.
Don't ask me what the heck happened to my last (big) post to Kor. Lemme try again.
I'm not a big fan of "builder feats" so I really do like this idea. Its still a pretty good benefit and I would suggest a pre-req of 5 ranks in Acrobatics, instead of the Dex 15.
A complaint I've heard about 3.X in general is that dex-based builds tend to be more reliant on the full attack, which makes them paradoxically less mobile than their musclehead counterparts. I think that building mobility feats off of dex is a good counterbalance to that.
These feats are used so infrequently (and given that such improvised weapons don't usually do much damage anyways), I think these feats should be combined into 1 feat "Improvised Weapon Proficiency".
Good idea, I'll probably do that.
I do like not having this as an auto-success. This is still a rarely chosen feat, and I think to add it its attractiveness I might also allow the character a chance to deflect 1 arrow per round, with 1 additional chance per every +4 BAB.
As often happens, typing my thoughts up has me thinking about it more.
Letting you use CMD in place of AC would be an interesting mechanic; only slightly better than your armor class at mid levels, but substantially better at higher levels (which makes up for the fact that you can only deflect one).
I like the idea, but I think the bonus might be a bit high. I would probably scale it down to +2
Giving that it only applies to attacks of opportunity, and even then, only to one -kind- of attack of opportunity (and only if they don't cast defensively)? I'm tempted to apply it to damage too, honestly.
This is another change I am waving on. It almost sounds too good. But in the alternative, taking a feat to gain an extra attack with -5 or -10 on the attack that only does half your Str damage, isn't exactly great either. This is one I would definately have to play test to judge its balance, but certainly an interesting idea.
That's what I'm doing.
Rolling the third and fourth iterative into Improved Two-Weapon Fighting might be a better idea. But for now, I think I'll try giving ITWF for free as well, and see how it goes.
(Although now this character is going to have +5 on this save. Hopefully not too good of a stacked benefits
The only obvious issue is lightning reflex + evasion. I might put a level prereq. on the greater version.
General rules:
-No fighter-only feats: any prerequisite of “Fighter level X” becomes “Base attack bonus +x”.This is also a great idea. There should be no "class only" feats. If you want to make it accessible only to 1 class, then it doesn't belong in the feat section, but rather the class abilities section. Either that or change the feat so it ties into the use of a particular class ability.
They could have just listed all the "fighter only feats" as optional class abilities (not feats) that could be selected, or to take a combat feat in lieu -- similar to the rogue talents.
I do not see why any class though, could not have access to the "fighter feats". Weapon Specialization for example simple signifies your specialty in 1 particular weapon.
I feel the same way about most fighter-only feats. For instance, screwing with wizards doesn't strike me as something that only a fighter should be able to do (though a fighter is certainly more likely to, as they can afford to take very specialized feats that a barb or paladin won't).
One feat that I am considering making a fighter class feature is Critical Mastery. Concensus seems to be that critical feats are a big deal and that the ability to use two at once makes the high-level fighter a badass; I'm a little skeptical myself (is everyone using two keen kukris here?), but I still hesitate to put that ability in other class's hands.
And if it is an important fighter benefit then he shouldn't have to spend one of his feats for it, either.
One feat that I am considering making a fighter class feature is Critical Mastery. Concensus seems to be that critical feats are a big deal and that the ability to use two at once makes the high-level fighter a badass; I'm a little skeptical myself (is everyone using two keen kukris here?), but I still hesitate to put that ability in other class's hands.
And if it is an important fighter benefit then he shouldn't have to spend one of his feats for it, either.
I sense a fighter class re-build coming from you soon :)
I think Kirth handled that one already.
I probably ought to just go ahead and post that somewhere...
Okay, here's my fighter remake. He's got full BAB, d10 HD, and all good saves (like the 1e fighter).
Level Special
1st Fighter talent or bonus feat
2nd Bonus feat or sneak attack
3rd Fighter talent
4th Bonus feat or sneak attack
5th Fighter talent
6th Bonus feat or sneak attack
7th Fighter talent
8th Bonus feat or sneak attack
9th Fighter talent
10th Bonus feat or sneak attack
11th Advanced fighter talent
12th Bonus feat or sneak attack
13th Advanced fighter talent
14th Bonus feat or sneak attack
15th Advanced fighter talent
16th Bonus feat or sneak attack
17th Advanced fighter talent
18th Bonus feat or sneak attack
19th Advanced fighter talent
20th Weapon mastery, bonus feat
Class Skills: The fighter’s class skills (and the key ability for each skill) are Athletics (Str), Bluff (Cha), Craft (Int), Endurance (Con), Handle Animal (Cha), Knowledge (Warfare) (Int), Linguistics (Int), Perception (Wis), Profession (Wis), and Survival (Wis).
Skill Points per Level: 4 + Int modifier.
Weapon and Armor Proficiency:
You can choose to give up your exotic shield proficiency to gain Dodge a bonus feat instead. You can also elect to give up your light and heavy shield proficiencies to gain Combat Expertise as a bonus feat instead. If you take either or both of these options, gaining levels in a class that normally offers proficiency in shields does not grant you those proficiencies unless you choose to “trade in” the corresponding bonus feats in order to receive them.
Canny Defense (Ex): You can choose to trade your medium and heavy armor proficiencies for the Canny Defense class feature. When wearing light or no armor, you add 1 point of your Intelligence bonus (if any) per fighter level as an insight bonus to Armor Class and CMD. If you are caught flat-footed or otherwise denied your Dexterity bonus, you also lose this bonus. This supercedes the duelist prestige class feature of the same name.
You may substitute your Wisdom bonus instead of your Intelligence bonus; once this choice is made, it cannot be changed.
Fighter Talent (Ex): Starting at 1st level, and at each odd-numbered level thereafter, select one talent from the Fighter Talents list.
Bonus Feat: The fighter can select any combat feat for which he meets the prerequisites. Alternatively, one bonus feat can be traded for sneak attack (as the Rogue class feature of the same name). If this option is selected, sneak attack damage is 1d6 for each time you select this option (so that a fighter spending five bonus feats on Sneak Attack would have sneak attack +5d6).
Advanced Talent (Ex): Starting at 11th level, each time the fighter would gain a new talent, he can select an advanced talent instead, from the list of Advanced Fighter Talents below. If you cannot meet any of the prerequisites for a new advanced talent, you can select a regular talent instead.
Weapon Mastery (Ex): At 20th level, all your critical threats are automatically confirmed, and you treat the critical multiplier of weapons you wield as one higher than normal (a ×2 becomes a ×3, for example).
FIGHTER TALENTS
ALIGNED STRIKE
Benefit: As a free action, you can orient your weapon along one alignment component that you possess. For example, if you are chaotic good, you can make your weapon either chaotic- or good-aligned for the purpose of overcoming damage reduction. This effect lasts until you choose to end it or change it (as a free action) to the other alignment component, or until you no longer wield the weapon.
Ammunition or a thrown weapon affected by this ability remains aligned until it either strikes a target or misses. Aligned strike is a supernatural ability.
Source: Complete Champion.
ARCANE RESISTANCE
Prerequisites: 5th level or higher.
Benefit: You gain a +1 bonus on all saving throws against spells and spell-like abilities for every 4 levels in Fighter you possess (to a maximum of +5 at 20th level).
Source: This talent supercedes the Hexblade class feature of the same name (Complete Warrior), and also the Occult Slayer’s “magical defense” prestige class feature.
ARMOR TRAINING
Prerequisite: Medium Armor Proficiency.
Benefit: Whenever you are wearing armor, you gain the following:
* An additional +1 armor bonus to your armor class;
* Reduction of the armor check penalty by 1 (to a minimum of 0)—this benefit stacks with the benefit for ranks in Endurance (-1 per 3 ranks);
* Reduction of the arcane spell failure chance (if applicable) by 5% (to a minimum of 10%);
* Increase the maximum Dexterity bonus allowed by your armor by 1; and
* Damage reduction 1/-;.
Finally, you suffer no reduction in your base movement rate when wearing medium armor.
Special: If you are actively using a light or heavy shield (not a buckler, animated shield, or shield spell), you gain your armor training bonus with the shield if no armor is worn. If using both armor and a shield, the benefits listed apply to both your armor and shield (i.e., they stack).
ARMOR TRAINING, IMPROVED
Prerequisite: Heavy Armor Proficiency; Armor Training.
Benefit: Your armor training benefits improve by 1 (i.e., the AC bonus and maximum Dexterity bonuses increases to +2 each, the armor check penalty is reduced by 2, the damage reduction improves to DR 2/-;, etc.).
Additionally, you suffer no reduction in your base movement rate when wearing heavy armor.
Special: This talent can be selected multiple times. Each time, the benefits of your armor training improve by 1.
BONUS FEAT
Benefit: Any time you would normally receive a fighter talent, you can instead choose to gain a bonus combat feat for which you meet the prerequisites.
BRAVERY
Benefit: When subjected to a fear effect, the impact is lessened by one category. In other words, effects that normally apply the panicked condition make you frightened instead; conditions that normally apply the frightened condition leave you shaken instead; and you can shrug off effects that would normally leave another person shaken.
Source: Suggested by the cavalier’s “unshakeable” class feature in Green Ronin’s The Cavalier’s Handbook, by Robert J. Schwalb.
DEFLECTION, ARMED
Prerequisites: Dex 13, Weapon Finesse.
Benefit: When using a light or one-handed piercing weapon, once per round when you would normally be hit with a ranged weapon, you may deflect it so that you take no damage from it. You must be aware of the attack and not flat-footed.
Attempting to deflect a ranged weapon doesn’t count as an action. Unusually massive ranged weapons (such as boulders or ballista bolts) and ranged attacks generated by spell effects can’t be deflected.
Special: This talent can be substituted for the Improved Unarmed Strike and Deflect Arrows feats for the purpose of qualifying for another feat, such as Exceptional Deflection.
Source: 3.5 System Reference Document, “Epic Feats.” This talent also supercedes the duelist’s “Deflect Arrows” prestige class feature.
DODGE, AGILE
Prerequisites: Dex 13.
Benefit: When wearing light or no armor, and not using a shield, you gain a dodge bonus to AC of +1, +1 per 4 fighter levels you possess. Unlike other named bonuses, dodge bonuses stack.
Source: This simulates the monk’s scaling bonus to AC.
ENERGY RESISTANCE
Benefit: You gain resistance 5 to acid, cold, electricity, fire, force, positive energy, negative energy, or sonic attacks.
Special: You may choose this talent multiple times. Each time, you may choose a different energy type. If you choose the same energy type, the effects stack.
EVASION
Benefit: If you make a successful Reflex saving throw against an attack that normally deals half damage on a successful save, you instead take no damage. Evasion can be used only if your base movement speed is unimpaired. A helpless character does not gain the benefit of evasion.
GIANT’S STANCE
Benefit: As a swift action, you can adopt a stance allowing you to put extra leverage into your blows. As long as you remain in this stance, you deal damage in melee as if any weapon you wield (or any unarmed strike) was one size greater than actual. You gain no size modifiers; only base damage changes.
This stance immediately ends if you move more than 5 feet for any reason (including being targeted by a bull rush or telekinesis, etc.).
Source: Tome of Battle.
HEXBLADE’S CURSE
Prerequisites: Nongood alignment.
Benefit: Once per day as a free action, you can unleash a curse upon a foe. The target must be visible and within 60 ft. The target takes a –2 penalty on attacks, saves, ability checks, skill checks, and weapon damage rolls for 1 hour thereafter. A successful Will save (DC 10 + ½ your base attack bonus + your Charisma modifier) negates the effect.
For every 4 fighter levels and/or Eldritch Knight levels above 1st (i.e., at 5th, 9th, 13th, and 17th), you can use this ability an additional time per day, to a maximum equal to your Charisma modifier (minimum once per day). Multiple uses do not stack, and any creature that successfully resists the effects cannot be affected by your Hexblade’s Curse for 24 hours.
Any effect that dispels or eliminates a curse also removes your Hexblade’s Curse.
Source: This talent supercedes the Hexblade class feature of the same name, from Complete Warrior.
KIAI SMITE
Benefit: Once per day, when you shout in combat (as a free action), you gain a bonus to your attack roll equal to your fighter level, to a maximum equal to your Charisma bonus (minimum +1). You receive a bonus on damage equal to twice the attack bonus.
For every 5 levels past 3rd (i.e., at 8th, 13th, and 18th) you gain an additional use per day.
Source: This feat supercedes the Samurai class feature of the same name, from Complete Warrior.
METTLE
Benefit: If you make a successful Fortitude or Will save against an attack that would normally have a lesser effect on a save (such as any spell with a saving throw of Fortitude Partial), you instead completely negate the effect.
Source: This feat supercedes the Hexblade class feature of the same name (Complete Warrior), and also the Pious Templar prestige class feature.
PRECISE STRIKE
Prerequisites: Weapon Finesse.
Benefit: You gain the ability to strike precisely with a light or one-handed piercing weapon, adding your fighter level to damage rolls (maximum +10).
When making a precise strike, you cannot attack with a weapon in your other hand or use a shield. A precise strike only works against living creatures with discernible anatomies. Any creature that is immune to critical hits is also immune to a precise strike, and any item or ability that protects a creature from critical hits also protects a creature from a precise strike.
Source: This talent supercedes the duelist’s class feature of the same name.
PUNISHING STANCE
Benefit: As a swift action, you can adopt a stance that magnifies the power of your strokes, at the cost of defensibility. Each blow you strike in melee while in this stance deals +1d6 damage (not multiplied on a crit). However, you suffer a –2 penalty to AC for as long as you maintain it.
Source: Tome of Battle.
RIPOSTE
Benefit: You can make an attack of opportunity against any creature whose attack you successfully parry (see combat rules), so long as the creature you are attacking is within reach.
SECOND WIND
Benefit: You can recover a number of hit points per day equal to your fighter class level x your Constitution modifier. You can divide this healing however you see fit, but each use requires a swift action. This talent cannot increase your hit points beyond your full normal total.
STALWART
Prerequisites: Endurance 5 ranks.
Benefit: You suffer no penalties when fatigued. If you become exhausted, you suffer penalties as if fatigued instead.
STRONG STOMACH
The constant sight and stench of blood has left you inured to any hint of queasiness.
Prerequisites: Endurance 5 ranks.
Benefit: You are immune to any effect that would apply the Sickened condition to a normal person. If you succumb to an effect that normally causes nausea, you are sickened instead.
WEAPON APTITUDE
Benefit: Each morning, you can choose to spend 1 hour in weapon practice to change the designated weapon for any feat you have that applies to a specific weapon (such as the Weapon Focus feat). You must have the newly-designated weapon available during your practice session in order to make this change. You can transfer the weapon training fighter talent in this manner to a new group, provided you have at least one weapon from the new group available during practice.
You can adjust any number of your feats or talents in this way, and you need not adjust them all in the same way. However, you can’t change the weapon choices in such a way that you no longer meet a prerequisite. For example, if you have Weapon Focus and Weapon Specialization with the longsword, you could not transfer either one of them alone to the heavy mace (for example), without changing the other as well.
Source: This talent is similar to the Warblade class feature of the same name, from the Tome of Battle.
WEAPON TRAINING
Benefit: Choose one weapons group (e.g., light blades, heavy blades, crossbows, etc.), as outlined in the Pathfinder rules. You gain a +1 competence bonus to attacks with these weapons per 4 fighter levels you possess (maximum +5 at 20th level). You also receive a damage bonus with these weapons equal to half your fighter class level.
Special: This talent can be selected multiple times. Each time, choose a different weapons group.
ADVANCED TALENTS
Prerequisites: Dodge, Mobility, Point Blank Shot.
Benefit: You do not incur any attacks of opportunity for firing a bow when threatened.
Normal: Without this talent, a character incurs an attack of opportunity from all opponents who threaten him or her whenever he or she uses a bow.
Source: 3.5 System Reference Document, “Epic Feats.”
AURA OF STABILITY
Benefit: You gain the effects of a dimensional anchor for a number of rounds per day equal to your fighter level. While this ability is active, any creature you grapple is likewise affected. Activating your aura of stability is a standard action.
Source: Planar Handbook.
BLINDING SPEED
Benefit: You can act as if hasted for 1 round per day per 4 fighter levels you possess. The duration of the effect need not be consecutive rounds. Activating this power is a free action.
Special: You can gain this talent multiple times. Each time you take the talent, it grants an additional 5 rounds of haste per day.
Source: 3.5 System Reference Document, “Epic Feats.”
DEFLECTION, EXCEPTIONAL
Prerequisites: Armed Deflection or Deflect Arrows.
Benefit: You can deflect any ranged attacks (including spells that require ranged touch attacks) as if they were arrows.
Source: 3.5 System Reference Document, “Epic Feats.”
DIRE CHARGE
Prerequisites: Improved Initiative, Mobilty
Benefit: If you charge a foe during the first round of combat (or the surprise round, if you are allowed to act in it), you can make a full attack against the opponent charged.
Normal: Without this talent, you may only make a single attack as part of a charge.
Source: 3.5 System Reference Document, “Epic Feats.”
DISPELLING ATTACK
Benefit: Any opponent dealt sneak attack damage by you is affected by a targeted greater dispel magic, targeting the lowest-level spell effect active on the target. The caster level for this ability is equal to your fighter level.
ELABORATE DEFENSE
Prerequisite: Combat Expertise.
Benefit: When using the Combat Expertise feat in melee combat, the dodge bonus to AC is equal to twice the penalty you take to your attack rolls (+2, +2 per 4 points of BAB). If using the total defense action, the bonus to AC is +3, +3 per 4 points of BAB.
Source: This talent supercedes the duelist prestige class feature of the same name. It has been altered somewhat to use the same mechanics as fighting defensively and Combat Expertise.
FEARLESS
Prerequisite: Bravery.
Benefit: You are immune to fear and fear effects.
Source: This talent supercedes the Cavalier class feature of the same name from The Cavalier’s Handbook, by Robert J. Schwalb (Green Ronin Publishing).
FOEBANE
Benefit: Choose one creature type from the Ranger “favored enemies” table. All attacks against creatures of that type are made as if you were wielding a bane weapon of the appropriate type. This benefit applies even when using nonmagical weapons or unarmed strikes.
FORTIFICATION
Prerequisites: Armor training, improved armor training.
Benefit: When you wear heavy armor there is a 25% chance that any critical hit or sneak attack against you is negated and damage is instead rolled normally.
Special: You can select this talent multiple times. Each time, your fortification impoves by an additional 25%.
Source: Dragon magazine #355.
GRIM DETERMINATION
Prerequisites: Endurance 10 ranks, Stalwart.
Benefit: You are immune to the effects of exhaustion and fatigue.
INTERCEPT BLOW
Benefit: Once per round, you can choose for any single attack striking an adjacent ally to automatically hit you instead.
Special: You can select this talent multiple times. Each time, you can intercept one additional blow per round.
Source: Combat rite of the same name, from Monte Cook’s Arcana Evolved.
MOUNTAIN HAMMER
Prerequisites: Vital Strike feat.
Benefit: When you execute a Vital Strike, the bonus damage is doubled, and you automatically ignore any hardness or damage reduction the target possesses.
Source: Tome of Battle.
OPPORTUNIST
Benefit: Once per round, you can make an attack of opportunity against an opponent who has just been struck for damage in melee by another character. This attack counts as your attack of opportunity for that round. Even a character with the Combat Reflexes feat can’t use the Opportunist talent more than once per round.
OVERPOWERING ATTACK
You never waste time wounding your opponent, instead concentrating on delivering one solid strike.
Benefit: As a full-round action, make one attack at your highest base attack bonus. That attack deals double damage, as do any other attacks you make before the start of your next turn.
Source: Players Handbook II.
PIERCE THE FOG OF WAR
Prerequisite: Blind-Fight feat.
Benefit: Through superior tactical reasoning, you deduce the true locations of your enemies. You ignore all concealment when attacking, including invisibility, displacement, and actual fog. Furthermore, you are able to deduce the true caster from the images when facing an opponent under a mirror image spell, and can estimate when and where a blinking opponent will appear (negating that spell’s usual miss chance). By observing a projected image, you can deduce the location of the image’s caster.
ROBILAR'S GAMBIT
By offering Robilar's Gambit, you absorb damage to place yourself in an advantageous position. This dangerous sacrifice is not for the unfit or the unwise, for one failed retaliatory strike can undo the advantage gained. Lord Robilar, a rash and impetuous fighter, gained fame using this technique against his enemies.
Prerequisite: Combat Reflexes
Benefit: At the start of your action, you can adopt a fighting stance that exposes you to harm but allows you to take advantage of your opponents' exposed defenses as they reach in to attack you. Anyone who strikes at you gains a +4 bonus on attack rolls and damage rolls against you. In return, they provoke attacks of opportunity from you each time they swing. Resolve your attack of opportunity after your foe's attack.
Normal: Opponents do not provoke attacks of opportunity by attacking. Further, when an opponent provokes an attack of opportunity, you resolve your attack before he completes the action that provoked the attack of opportunity.
Source: Players Handbook II.
SNEAK ATTACK OF OPPORTUNITY
Prerequisites: Sneak attack, Opportunist.
Benefit: Any attack of opportunity you make is automatically considered a sneak attack.
THREAT ZONE
Prerequisite: Mobility feat.
Benefit: Through training, your awareness and mobility in a small area have expanded considerably. The area you threaten increases by 5 ft. in all directions. This does not mean that the length of your weapon or arms increases; instead, it assumes that you are able to instantaneously move out of your square in order to make an attack of opportunity in the expanded area (and then automatically returns to your square upon completion of the attack). This movement does not count against any movement you are normally entitled to, but any obstruction to that movement also obstructs your threat zone. This free movement does not provoke attacks of opportunities if your threat area overlaps with area that one or more opponents threaten.
Special: This advanced talent can be taken more than once; the effects stack.
Hrmm..
One hand, the balance is all over the place (for one thing, at low levels, you just can't put a bonus feat on par with sneak-attack). On the other, the abilities are clean and simple and some of them are quite interesting (I wouldn't mind seeing many of them written as feats, even if they are pilfered from all over the place).
for one thing, at low levels, you just can't put a bonus feat on par with sneak-attack.
True, although that's exactly what Unearthed Arcana did. Maybe sneak attack is better off as a talent, though, rather than as a feat. Thanks!
As far as talents being pilfered from all over the place, that was part of the design intent: to supercede as many needless combat-oriented prestige classes as possible under the "fighter" umbrella. I basically combed through a gazillion splat-books starting with Complete Warrior, turned most things into feats, and made the ones too powerful (or too specific) to be feats into fighter talents.
Please keep the observations coming... nothing ever gets improved without constructive criticism. There's no possible way to hurt my feelings by pointing out potential flaws and/or breaking points.
for one thing, at low levels, you just can't put a bonus feat on par with sneak-attack.True, although that's exactly what Unearthed Arcana did. Maybe sneak attack is better off as a talent, though, rather than as a feat. Thanks!
As far as talents being pilfered from all over the place, that was part of the design intent: to supercede as many needless combat-oriented prestige classes as possible under the "fighter" umbrella. I basically combed through a gazillion splat-books starting with Complete Warrior, turned most things into feats, and made the ones too powerful (or too specific) to be feats into fighter talents.
Please keep the observations coming... nothing ever gets improved without constructive criticism. There's no possible way to hurt my feelings by pointing out potential flaws and/or breaking points.
I second making SA a talenet. Seems too powerful as a feat at low levels.
But over all I like the flexiblity of this class. Lets you make a solid fencer/swashbuckler without needing a PrC, lets you make a brutal tank, or a fine archer. That's one dang flexible class, but it is so well put together you could hardly be great at all three without massive levels. You know you could even make a solid non-casting ranger out of this class.
I've added Improved Combat casting, lets the caster reroll a failed DC. Prereq is of course combat casting.
Keep the fear of combat casting, doesn't completely removed the danger like a + something to it could do, but allows casters who want to be good at it a method. The cost of a feat seems balanced against them being able to have taken any number of excellent metamagic feats instead that would likely have be useful more often. I just want to allow a guy to focus on a style of play even if it isn't the wisest or most normal.
I've added Improved Combat casting, lets the caster reroll a failed DC. Prereq is of course combat casting.
Both of those feats become obsolete after 12th level or so, though, when combat casting goes back to being an auto-success because of the static DC. I agree those feats are pure gold for low-level casters, though.
Both of those feats become obsolete after 12th level or so, though, when combat casting goes back to being an auto-success because of the static DC.
Wha...?
6th level spell: DC 15+(2*6) = 27.
12th level caster: +12 to roll.
Absolute limit of believability is 29 Int (base 20, 3 bumps, +6 item): +9 to roll.
Combat Casting: +4 to roll.
12 + 9 + 4 = +25 to the roll. Did I miss anything? A roll of 1 still fails.
Even in the absolute best case, it's 16th level before your highest spell level is an auto-success... and Combat Casting is still necessary, though the reroll feat does become useless at that point.
You forgot that caster level can be increased by items and feats.
Ahh, that'd do it.
Pretty happy with my proposal on the other thread about this, though: change defensive casting DC to 10 + 3x SpLvl.
|
You forgot that caster level can be increased by items and feats.
You could house rule only one bonus through feats may be added and not allow magical assisted aid for caster checks, such as spell buffs and magic items. Anything that increases caster level is for purposes of effect only. Character might be able to cast a fireball as if they were two levels higher, but they are still just whatever level they are.
Actually I like that idea and it makes sense. Just because you found something to help you make something better doesn't mean that you're actually better at it without spending the time to really learn it. We use word processors every day and still make mistakes when it comes to typing just to prove the point.
<As I quickly cut and paste the above to Word to double check everything. :-P>
Actually, a bonus feat does equal out to +1d6 of SA. As mentioned, Unearthed Arcana agrees, and other sources I'm too lazy to find right now.
I think the kicker is being able to switch back and forth between BF and SA.
In other news, I agree that a TWF should be better then a TWF/Shield user who bashes with a shield. A weapon + weapon should do more damage then a weapon + shield. Plain and simple.
Improved Vital Strike and Greater Vital Strike: GONE. Vital Strike: Scales with BAB
VITAL STRIKE (COMBAT)
You make a single attack that deals significantly more damage than normal.Prerequisites: Base attack bonus +6, iterative attacks.
Benefit: As a standard action or as your attack at the end of a charge, you can make a single attack that deals an additional 2d6 damage. This bonus damage increases to +4d6 if your base attack bonus is +11 or better, and to +6d6 if your base attack bonus is +16 or better. This bonus damage is precision-based; it is not multiplied on a crit.
Note: I standardized the damage to +Xd6 to mirror sneak attack dice (as a reminder that it doesn't multiply on a crit) and to reduce the annoying "bigger weapons = always better" paradigm that's becoming increasingly prevailent in the rules.
|
Improved Vital Strike and Greater Vital Strike: GONE. Vital Strike: Scales with BABVITAL STRIKE (COMBAT)
You make a single attack that deals significantly more damage than normal.
Prerequisites: Base attack bonus +6, iterative attacks.
Emphasis mine. I take this to mean you have done the awesome and only awarded iterative attacks to certain classes?
Emphasis mine. I take this to mean you have done the awesome and only awarded iterative attacks to certain classes?Improved Vital Strike and Greater Vital Strike: GONE. Vital Strike: Scales with BABVITAL STRIKE (COMBAT)
You make a single attack that deals significantly more damage than normal.
Prerequisites: Base attack bonus +6, iterative attacks.
He can speak for himself, of course, but in the RAW, not everything with +6 BAB has iterative attacks.
Most monsters/beasts/animals/etc., don't get iterative attacks, but many of them have BAB high enough. Sure, many of them have multiple attacks like claw/claw/bite for example, but those are not iterative. And a really big super cave bear with 11 BAB does not get claw/claw/bite/bite/bite iterative goodness.
So, such a cave bear might meet the requirement of +6 BAB but wouldn't meet the requirement of having iterative attacks.
Even I, the almighty Tarrasque, large and magnificent as I am, get no iterative attacks. But that's a good thing. Gives me time to chew and savor the flavor of all the adventurers I eat. Wouldn't want to eat them 4 at a time; they would lose all flavor like that...
Now, as to whether or not Kirth has removed iterative attacks from some classes, I'll leave that for him to answer.
|
On one hand, I could see taking iterative attacks away from non-full BAB classes. It would be a nod to earlier editions and such. But at the same time, the progression keeps iterative attacks away from them already, since non-multiclassers are never going to get those last couple attacks as is. So I wonder how clunky the idea would turn out.
On one hand, I could see taking iterative attacks away from non-full BAB classes. It would be a nod to earlier editions and such. But at the same time, the progression keeps iterative attacks away from them already, since non-multiclassers are never going to get those last couple attacks as is. So I wonder how clunky the idea would turn out.
Nah, as you point out, there is little need.
They already miss most of their primary attacks because their BAB is low and they didn't focus a ton of resources into STR, Weapon Focus, magical weapons, etc.
Then they get a second attack that often needs a natrual 20 to hit, or close to it. Hardly worth taking that away.
As for the middle-BAB group, like rogues, well, these guys are supposed to be trained to fight. At least somewhat. Not as good as true fighters (etc.) which is why they learn at a slower pace. But still good enough that they shouldn't lose a significant chunk of their threat potential.
But after all, it's not the game balance that I worry about.
When you get down to it, a +6 BAB represents a certain amount of training. It doesn't really matter at all if you're a 6th level fighter or an 8th level rogue or a 12th level wizard. Once you have acquired the experience, skill, and ability to fight exactly this well then it is the same for you as it is for everyone else with this experience, skill, and ability - it just takes some classes more or less time to get there based on how much they divert their attention with other stuff like spellcasting or picking pockets.
Here are some modifications from feats in 3.5. I found these on www.brilliantgameologists.com, they are NOT my creations. However, I modified some to be more compatible to Pathfinder/my group's gaming style in general. If you are interested in the original modifications, check out this link: http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=1889.0
I'm not sure if I want to supplement the skill bump feats into pathfinder, since all class skills get an immediate +3 bump (although it makes them pretty attractive now, I made a 1st level fighter with a +6 Perception bonus). I like the way they changed Weapon Focus, and gave fighters more bonuses when they take certain feats. But again, I've yet to run a PF game so I don't know if these would be OP'd.
Let me know what you think.
Acrobatic
- New Benefit: You now gain Acrobatics and Fly as class skills (if they weren’t already).
Alertness
- New Benefit: You now gain Perception and Sense Motive as class skills (if they weren’t already).
Athletic
- New Benefit: You now gain Climb and Swim as class skills (if they weren’t already).
Deceitful
- New Benefit: You now gain Bluff and Disguise as class skills (if they weren’t already).
Deft Hands
- New Benefit: You now gain Disable Device and Sleight of Hand as class skills (if they weren’t already).
Far Shot
- In addition to the normal benefits, this adds +30 feet to the range at which you can apply precision damage such as Sneak Attack, Skirmish, and Sudden Strike.
- Prereqs are now: Precise Shot
Great Fortitude
- You gain a +2 bonus on Fortitude saves. Instead of rolling one save, you may roll two dice and pick the higher of the two results. You may reroll in this fashion one time day plus one for every three character levels (round down).
- This feat removes Improved Great Fortitude.
Improved Toughness
- Prerequisites: Toughness, Base Fortitude save bonus +3
- You gain +10 additional hit points.
- You may take this feat multiple times. Each time you gain an additional ten hit points.
Iron Will
- You gain a +2 bonus on Will saves. Instead of rolling one save, you may roll two dice and pick the higher of the two results. You may reroll in this fashion one time day plus one for every three character levels (round down).
- This feat removes Improved Iron Will.
Lightning Reflexes
- You gain a +2 bonus on Reflex saves. Instead of rolling one save, you may roll two dice and pick the higher of the two results. You may reroll in this fashion one time day plus one for every three character levels (round down).
- This feat removes Improved Lightning Reflexes.
Magical Aptitude
- New Benefit: You now gain Spellcraft and Use Magical Device as class skills (if they weren’t already).
Persuasive
- New Benefit: You now gain Diplomacy and Intimidate as class skills (if they weren’t already).
Point Blank Shot*
*Remove this feat. All feats that have it as a prerequisite now have Precise Shot as a prerequisite.
Precise Shot
- New Prerequisites: Dex 13+
- New Benefits: Add +1 to attack and damage rolls within 30 ft. (as Point blank shot).
Self-Sufficient
- New Benefit: You now gain Heal and Survival as class skills (if they weren’t already).
Shot on the run
- New Prerequisites: Precise Shot
Skill Focus
- New Benefit: Any skill selected for this feat now becomes a class skill if it isn’t already.
Spring Attack
- Drop all the prereqs. This feat can be taken at level 1.
- Special: A fighter with this feat can make any combat maneuver listed as a standard action in place of a normal attack (Trip, Disarm, Sunder).
Stealthy
- New Benefit: You now gain Escape Artist and Stealth as class skills (if they weren’t already).
Toughness
-You now gain a number of hit points equal to the number of hit dice you have +5. This feat grants an additional hit point for every additional hit die you gain.
- You may only take this feat once.
Two-Weapon Fighting
- In addition to the normal benefits, you gain a second off-hand attack when your BAB is +6*. This attack is at -5 from your BAB. When your BAB is +11*, you gain a third off-hand attack, which is at -10 from your BAB. When your BAB is +16, you gain a fourth off-hand attack, which is at -15 from your BAB.
*Note: You are counted as having Improved Two-Weapon fighting at BAB +6 and Greater Two-Weapon Fighting at BAB +11 for purposes of prerequisites.
Weapon Focus
- Choose a weapon. You gain a +1 bonus on attack rolls with that weapon.
Special:
A fighter of 4th level and higher adds a +2 bonus to all damage rolls with the chosen weapon. He is counted as having the Weapon Specialization* feat for purposes of prerequisites.
A fighter of 8th level and higher adds an additional +1 bonus to all attack rolls with the chosen weapon (for a total of +2). He is counted as having the Greater Weapon Focus* feat for purposes of prerequisites.
A fighter of 12th level and higher adds an additional +2 bonus to all damage rolls with the chosen weapon (for a total of +4). He is counted as having the Greater Weapon Specialization* feat for purposes of prerequisites.
*Note: This feat replaces the feats Weapon Specialization, Greater Weapon Focus, and Greater Weapon Specialization.
::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::
Fighter extra bonuses
The feats listed below now grant additional bonuses to fighters. If you have any fighter levels, please note the changes listed.
Blind Fight: A character with Fighter levels gains additional bonuses from this feat. Such a character reduces his miss chance due to concealment in melee by 5% for every 2 Fighter levels he possesses, until he ignores the chance entirely at level 20.
Combat Expertise: A character with Fighter levels gains additional bonuses from this feat. Such a character adds an additional +1 dodge bonus to AC when using Combat Expertise for every 3 Fighter levels he possesses, to a maximum of +6 at level 20.
Combat Reflexes: A character with Fighter levels gains additional bonuses from this feat. Such a character may make one additional attack of opportunity per round for every 5 Fighter levels he possesses, to a maximum of +4 at level 20.
Dodge: A character with Fighter levels gains additional bonuses from this feat. Such a character adds an additional +1 dodge bonus to AC for every 5 Fighter levels he possesses, to a maximum of +5 at level 20.
Improved Bull Rush: A character with Fighter levels gains additional bonuses from this feat. Such a character adds an additional +1 bonus to opposed bull rush checks for every 3 Fighter levels he possesses, to a maximum of +10 at level 20. Add an additional +1 bonus to your CMD score to avoid being bull rushed.
Improved Grapple: A character with Fighter levels gains additional bonuses from this feat. Such a character adds an additional +1 bonus to opposed grapple checks for every 3 Fighter levels he possesses, to a maximum of +10 at level 20. Add an additional +1 bonus to your CMD score to avoid being grappled.
Improved Trip: A character with Fighter levels gains additional bonuses from this feat. Such a character adds an additional +1 bonus to opposed trip checks for every 3 Fighter levels he possesses, to a maximum of +10 at level 20. Add an additional +1 bonus to your CMD score to avoid being bull tripped.
Weapon Focus: A character with Fighter levels gains additional bonuses from this feat. Such a character adds an additional +1 bonus to hit when using the chosen weapon for every 5 Fighter levels he possesses, to a maximum of +4 at level 20. Also, add an additional +1 bonus to damage when using the chosen weapon for every 3 fighter levels he possesses, to a maximum of +6 at level 20.
|
General rules:
-No fighter-only feats: any prerequisite of “Fighter level X” becomes “Base attack bonus +x”.This is also a great idea. There should be no "class only" feats. If you want to make it accessible only to 1 class, then it doesn't belong in the feat section, but rather the class abilities section. Either that or change the feat so it ties into the use of a particular class ability.
They could have just listed all the "fighter only feats" as optional class abilities (not feats) that could be selected, or to take a combat feat in lieu -- similar to the rogue talents.
I do not see why any class though, could not have access to the "fighter feats". Weapon Specialization for example simple signifies your specialty in 1 particular weapon.
I feel the same way about most fighter-only feats. For instance, screwing with wizards doesn't strike me as something that only a fighter should be able to do (though a fighter is certainly more likely to, as they can afford to take very specialized feats that a barb or paladin won't).
One feat that I am considering making a fighter class feature is Critical Mastery. Concensus seems to be that critical feats are a big deal and that the ability to use two at once makes the high-level fighter a badass; I'm a little skeptical myself (is everyone using two keen kukris here?), but I still hesitate to put that ability in other class's hands.
And if it is an important fighter benefit then he shouldn't have to spend one of his feats for it, either.
I agree here. I hate class specific feats, and PF really has no reason to have Fighter only feats in particular.
One thing I would suggest, to keep them a bit more Fighter Flavored though, is to allow Fighters to get them 1 level earlier than anyone else. So, if it is Fighter level 4, make it BaB +5, or something like that. Not on each and every one, but more than not.
Might also want to keep some of the Cleric only feats still pretty much Cleric only. The reason I say this is bacause things that are meant for a Cleric but open for Paladin, (or Druid or whatever) can be overpowered in the wrong hands, and it's usually unintentional.
Your sheer hatred of shields has nerfed them to more than usefullness than they were in 3.5I understand you have improved the TWF niche, but at least keep the old shield bash. Not ONLY did you add a prerque. but you cut the power to an 1/8 of what it was before. While I know you didn't like the idea, it made for a good mechanic for a fantasy game.
Shield slam was fine for the mechanic as it was, but adding improved bullrush was a good idea.
A shield grants +2 AC at 1st level which, with the extra "armor" slot that it grants you, which improves +5 AC (plus an extra armor property) by 20th, with no feat investment and no extra cash spent.
Getting that for free (i.e, getting it and also using your off-hand) with one feat was and has always been insane.
Frankly, if I had to make a call, I would say that the new shield bash was still too powerful. Whenever you go one-on-one you're still getting all the benefits of a shield coupled with all the benefits of duel-wielding.
The sword-and-board duel-wielder of 3.P (i.e, the one that's superior to a sword-and-sword duel-wielder AND a regular shield user in every way) is neither realistic, nor balanced, nor thematically or archetypically satisfying. It has no redeeming qualities and I'm not sad to see it go. However, I will be writing a shield-only feat or two to replace it. I actually like shields; what I hate is the idea that they make better weapon than they do shields (and, incidentally, make better weapons than weapons do).
This is all fine and dandy, but does nothing to compensate the user for spending a feat and getting less from its original version. You need to add some other bonus, or reduced negative to it, otherwise it is just a flat out nerf.
You need to add some other bonus, or reduced negative to it, otherwise it is just a flat out nerf.
The question being, is a nerf uncalled for? That said, how's this: also gain cover against the bash target.
Most monsters/beasts/animals/etc., don't get iterative attacks, but many of them have BAB high enough.
They don't make iterative attacks, but this does not mean that they can't, and feat prerequisites usually deal with what a character can do rather than what they usually do.
A lizardman or a half-dragon has natural attacks, but they can certainly use manufactured weapons as well. And I can't recall any hard rules saying who can or can't use manufactured weapons: it seems to largely be up to dm adjudication. We've all seen trolls with swords and gray renders with clubs, for instance.
Horses can wear barding, and like armor, barding can have armor spikes. An intelligent horse (such as a radont in the Diamond Throne) could attack with those spikes, even if they weren't proficient with them, in which case they'd get the usual spread of iterative attacks rather than anything based on their usual attack routine.
Technically, I think that even a dragon can make a series of unarmed strikes (or unarmed disarms, or unarmed trips) at the usual +15/+10/+5.
This is all fine and dandy, but does nothing to compensate the user for spending a feat and getting less from its original version. You need to add some other bonus, or reduced negative to it, otherwise it is just a flat out nerf.
A flat out nerf is what I set out to do, and I'm frankly not sure the job is done yet. If you're going one-on-one, that rewrite is still just as good as the old shield bash (i.e, way too powerful for a feat).
Acrobatic
- New Benefit: You now gain Acrobatics and Fly as class skills (if they weren’t already).Alertness
- New Benefit: You now gain Perception and Sense Motive as class skills (if they weren’t already).Athletic
- New Benefit: You now gain Climb and Swim as class skills (if they weren’t already).Deceitful
- New Benefit: You now gain Bluff and Disguise as class skills (if they weren’t already).Deft Hands
- New Benefit: You now gain Disable Device and Sleight of Hand as class skills (if they weren’t already).
That's an interesting approach.
It is giving large bonuses to characters who aren't trained in those skills (wizard taking deceitful to get +5 to bluff and disguise), but that certainly isn't as cheesy as, say, taking a rogue level to get bluff and disguise instead. I might adopt that one.
Occorse, I forgot to mention it, but I'm actually using one "Skill Application" feat (ala AE) in place of all those. Basically you get to pick two skills, and can invent whatever thematic connection you want between them.
Far Shot
- In addition to the normal benefits, this adds +30 feet to the range at which you can apply precision damage such as Sneak Attack, Skirmish, and Sudden Strike.
That's a good change
Great Fortitude
- You gain a +2 bonus on Fortitude saves. Instead of rolling one save, you may roll two dice and pick the higher of the two results. You may reroll in this fashion one time day plus one for every three character levels (round down).
- This feat removes Improved Great Fortitude.
I considered doing this with the "improved" versions.
The problem with doing this with the base feat (and never giving more than +2) is that, if you already have a low save bonus (such as an Iron Willed fighter), a double-roll statistically doesn't help you as much. Double-rolls favor the average; they're much better at avoiding 1's than achieving 20's.
This version of Great Fortitude is awesome for making really-tough-fighters, not as good at making surprisingly-tough-wizards.
Spring Attack
- Drop all the prereqs. This feat can be taken at level 1.
- Special: A fighter with this feat can make any combat maneuver listed as a standard action in place of a normal attack (Trip, Disarm, Sunder).
Not sure about this one. Spring Attack isn't terribly powerful as a general tactics, but if you could just take it with no prerequisites, it would be very attractive as a back-up tactic. It's also really great for approaching dragons or giants without provoking.
On the other hand, the changes to spring attack (the fact that you can't use it on an adjacent opponent) make it less reliable for negating someone's full attack. Hmm.
I do agree that you should be able to use maneuvers with it (I didn't realize that you couldn't already, actually).
Toughness
-You now gain a number of hit points equal to the number of hit dice you have +5. This feat grants an additional hit point for every additional hit die you gain.
- You may only take this feat once.
If you use retraining rules (or just don't game past 6th or 7th level or so), this is an absolute must-have. Everyone will take it at low levels then retrain when it becomes useless at high levels.
I think the Pathfinder rewrite works just fine here.
The feats listed below now grant additional bonuses to fighters. If you have any fighter levels, please note the changes listed...
The only way it can possibly work is if you write a progression of this sort for EVERY combat feat in the game, AND if all of these progressions are balanced against eachother at all levels.