We have a tiny problem in my group. No one wants to be a cleric. There are 2 players left who haven't rolled up characters, and one of them has to be some type of healer, or at least throw healing spells around. The only other divine caster type is a paladin, and I know a bard could throw around light healing as well, but those two classes combined aren't nearly as effective as a full blown cleric or druid. Also, we're playing Council of Thieves, which looks like it may have undead, but who knows, right?
How you all can help: Give me badass cleric ideas.
The guy who can most effectively play a cleric doesn't want to becuase they are 'gay'. The other player should not be a spellcaster, ever, becuase of mental handicaps. He does an ok job, but I know the group will get very aggravated at his lack of....ministrations, if you will.
The party layout is here.
Please, Paizo no Kenobi, you're my only hope.
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We have a tiny problem in my group. No one wants to be a cleric. There are 2 players left who haven't rolled up characters, and one of them has to be some type of healer, or at least throw healing spells around. The only other divine caster type is a paladin, and I know a bard could throw around light healing as well, but those two classes combined aren't nearly as effective as a full blown cleric or druid. Also, we're playing Council of Thieves, which looks like it may have undead, but who knows, right?
How you all can help: Give me badass cleric ideas.
Get one of those horrifically min-max CoDzillas floating around the various boards and present it to the player who thinks clerics and druids are "gay". Tell him (her?) exactly what's its capable of in a fight, especially at higher levels. S/he should be begging for the class by then ^_^
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We have a tiny problem in my group. No one wants to be a cleric. There are 2 players left who haven't rolled up characters, and one of them has to be some type of healer, or at least throw healing spells around. The only other divine caster type is a paladin, and I know a bard could throw around light healing as well, but those two classes combined aren't nearly as effective as a full blown cleric or druid. Also, we're playing Council of Thieves, which looks like it may have undead, but who knows, right?
How you all can help: Give me badass cleric ideas.
The guy who can most effectively play a cleric doesn't want to becuase they are 'gay'. The other player should not be a spellcaster, ever, becuase of mental handicaps. He does an ok job, but I know the group will get very aggravated at his lack of....ministrations, if you will.
The party layout is here.
Please, Paizo no Kenobi, you're my only hope.
I am playing the cleric in my face-to-face group and I am a cleric4/Ordained Champion 4.
I have full turning ability, am losing a total of 2 spell levels in a 5 level PRC in exchange for full BAB for those 5 levels, the ability to spontaneously cast spells from and access to the WAR domain, and several great combat related bonuses like using turn attempts to smite, swift casting of War Domain spells like divine power, spiritual weapon, and other good ones, the ability to use a turn attempt to channel any offensive spell on my list through my weapon (channeled searing light is cool!), and a couple others.War domain give you weapon proficiency and focus in your diety's chosen I believe and having access to 3 domains total is pretty cool. Plus you can get rid of one of your domain powers in exchange for a combat.
I also took Augment Healing to power-up the healing I can do. Mostly I memorize the Healing stuff and some offensive spells (silence, searing light, sound burst) and if I need to spont. a Spiritual Weapon, I just need to pick what I sacrifice for it. I always keep a lesser restore, and will keep at least one restoration at all times. If the party ever needs disease removal or poison stuff.....tough. Either wait till tomorrow for disease or chip in for scrolls before the adventure or something.
Seems to be working good....next level I get access to divine power which I will be able to cast as a spontaneous swift action for a BAB=total levels, +1 HP per level and +6 strength for 1/rd a level. Then I can sacrifice a turn to smite ANYTHING, not just evil, which will make me a Bad-@ss-MoFo!
Try it, you'll like it.
I think Ordained Champion is from the Complete Champion book.
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Get one of those horrifically min-max CoDzillas floating around the various boards and present it to the player who thinks clerics and druids are "gay". Tell him (her?) exactly what's its capable of in a fight, especially at higher levels. S/he should be begging for the class by then ^_^We have a tiny problem in my group. No one wants to be a cleric. There are 2 players left who haven't rolled up characters, and one of them has to be some type of healer, or at least throw healing spells around. The only other divine caster type is a paladin, and I know a bard could throw around light healing as well, but those two classes combined aren't nearly as effective as a full blown cleric or druid. Also, we're playing Council of Thieves, which looks like it may have undead, but who knows, right?
How you all can help: Give me badass cleric ideas.
See my above post! LOL!
Forcing a player to play something they do not want to is full of fail and un-fun. I strongly urge against it.
I would look at other options. More healing potions, reducing the number of opponents in encounters, offering opportunities to avoid combat.
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The party has six members, and no one willing to play a divine caster? I know this may seem cruel to some, but I would let them play what they want. They will either make their way with potions and dome use magic device rolls on some wands, or eventually they will have casualties and someone will make a cleric or druid as a new character. I would not bring in an npc cleric for them unless they actively sought one out in game. Then I would role play it from there. I think when you have six people someone should step up even if they aren't a favored class of the players. If they have not ever played a cleric, or druid they may be falling pray to the anti divine propaganda (oh all they do is heal, you don't get to do anything but be a walking band-aid)these classes can offer so much more than that. I wish you luck, and would love to hear how this gets resolved.
If they decide against bringing a divine caster, you might want to encourage a couple of them to max out "use magic device" and give them some potent healing items. That will give them a chance when things hit the fan.
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The party has six members, and no one willing to play a divine caster? I know this may seem cruel to some, but I would let them play what they want. They will either make their way with potions and dome use magic device rolls on some wands, or eventually they will have casualties and someone will make a cleric or druid as a new character. I would not bring in an npc cleric for them unless they actively sought one out in game. Then I would role play it from there. I think when you have six people someone should step up even if they aren't a favored class of the players. If they have not ever played a cleric, or druid they may be falling pray to the anti divine propaganda (oh all they do is heal, you don't get to do anything but be a walking band-aid)these classes can offer so much more than that. I wish you luck, and would love to hear how this gets resolved.
Good point. Slap them silly with the undead!
Bad ass cleric build, eh?
Are you looking for something charted out level by level up to, say, 13th level?
Why is a lack of cleric really a problem? Do people really find it hard to run a game with no party cleric (or be a party-member of such a game)??
Potions, heal skills, etc. Risk is fun. Bigger risk, bigger fun. A DM who's able to handle things, and a party that knows how to plan/accomodate the lack of a cleric can be a ton of fun.
We've played all-fighter parties, all-cleric parties, even all-wizard parties. And the party has survived.
I know my experience isn't going to be the same as everyone else's, but I simply can't grasp the concept that there absolutely MUST be an example of each class in the party. Sure, there's the trope of fighter/wizard/cleric/rogue, and that's fun, happens a lot - but necessary? Absolutely not.
(And for what it's worth, cleric is *MY* favorite class.)
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If using 3.5 rules, a Cleric of Wee Jas with Magic and Death can use Wizard wands (Spectral Hand is particularly handy) to channel his spontaneous Inflict spells and / or Death Touches. Combined with Rebuke Undead, and a PrC into Master of Shrouds, he's got unbeatable incorporeal strength-draining undead minions, excellent damage potential and can pull out a Wand of Cure X Wounds (or Lesser Vigor, or Close Wounds) if someone gets an ouchie.
Taking a N Cleric of Obad-Hai, who can choose to be able to Rebuke instead of Turn, with the Earth and Fire Domains, you've got some decent attack spells, but, more importantly, three different sets of Turn/Rebuke uses to power some divine Feats and make undead, earth creatures (such as gargoyles or mephits) or fire creatures (such as thoqqua or hell hounds or salamanders) into your gumbies.
Depending on what sorts of creature types you expect to face, there's pretty much a Domain for everything. Air creatures (Air), Cold creatures (Cold or Winter), Earth creatures (Earth), Fire creatures (Fire), Water creatures (Water), reptilian animals (Scalykind), Plant creatures (Plant), Oozes (Ooze, Slime *or* Thirst), Constructs (Warforged), vermin (Spider), etc. In a cold-themed campaign, taking Cold *and* Winter allows you to control twice as many Cold type creatures (which, in an arctic setting, is like half of the critters you encounter!). With the right Alternate Class features or Prestige Classes you can command dragons (don't bother, too many HD to be worth it) or gain highly specific bonuses (Drow of the Underdark gives one that allows you to count as a Cleric 4 levels higher for Rebuke / Command on spiders, which, combined with the Improved Turning Feat, means that a *1st level Cleric* will be able to command a pair of 3 HD Medium Monstrous Spiders or Spider Swarms). There's also an Initiate of Nature Feat in the Forgotten Realms that allows one to Rebuke / Command all sorts of animals or plants.
Some are highly situational (such as the Cold / Winter or Fire ones, which would be totally OP in an arctic or 'against the fire giants' type campaign, but a drag otherwise), others are pretty easy to find (Scalykind, allowing your 1st level Cleric with Improved Turning to start with a pair of 1 HD Small Vipers as pets, which aren't that hard to find, and moving up to 2 HD Medium Vipers at 3rd and 3 HD Large Vipers, Constrictors or Crocodiles by 5th level.)
These options are *in addition to* being able to do the Persist / Divine Metamagic trick with Divine Power, Divine Favor and / or Righteous Might, and out-fight many Fighter types. Or you can utterly skip the Divine Persist cheese and *still* be a valuable member of the party with either of the two above. Or you could choose to skip the wannabe Fighter route and go Divine Persist with spells that augment *all* of your allies, like Elation or Recitation.
And if no one wants to play a Cleric anyway, that's okay. The Paladin or Bard could pick up the Touch of Healing Reserve Feat to cut down on the burden, snag a few Wands of Cure Light Wounds or Lesser Vigor, etc. and you can choose to provide other alternatives, such as a 1d4 healing alchemical salve or whatever.
My personal DMing philosphy is to let everyone play the character they want. If they feel they need a healer and nobody wants to play it, then I might toss in an NPC to fill the gap. I don't believe anyone should be manuevered into playing something they don't want to play. In the end that punishes the more "get-along" players while the jack-hole players get to play what they want.
Now if you don't want to run an NPC, that is cool. But for heavens sake do not go out of your way to "prove" to the players how stupid they are for not having a divine caster in the party. Don't start throwing waves of undead at them for no other reason. Don't have entire cults of buffed up clerics chasing after them for no other reason. Don't be that DM. Nobody likes gaming with one of them.
I agree with those who are saying that they should find out for themselves, but I also agree that it is a little harsh to deliberately punish them. What I did in my campaign was have a couple of really cool butt kicking clerics show up. For example, imagine someone who's like Ash from "Evil Dead", or Clint Eastwood in "Pale Rider". In my campaign I had one of the clerics show up not so much as deus ex machina as a welcome hand when the party were being overwhelmed by ghasts. The party still had to fight but I described the heroic actions of this cleric, who didn't outclass them but certainly fought ably alongside them.
My personal opinion is that someone playing a cleric shouldn't be stuck healing anyway. They are too full of awsomeness and power to waste their time on such things.
Healing belts are a must... if you want healed, do it yourself. You mentioned you have both a Paladin and Bard? There's some wands that need to be bought.
Honestly that right there is enough to keep most groups going most of the time.
Really my point is that it is the individual PCs who need to heal themselves... a cleric is just another way of kicking butt... and I think it deserves it place as one of the 3 most powerful classes alongside the wizard and druid.
(and other posters are right... divine metamagic: persist for the win!)
Sean Mahoney
Another option might be to get someone to play a crusader from Tome of Battle: Book of Nine Swords. They are what the paladin should have been and can lay out some decent combat healing while still laying down some smack.
Sean mahoney
Hmmm... I fail to see the problem... In a friends campaign we are just three, 3, players with no npc's tagging along and the group consists of 1 human ranger, 1 human wizard(enchanter spec) and a half-giant fighter barbarian. We have just reached 4th lvl and though at times it has been a bit touch and go we have managed pretty well so far, and since the ranger (me) has CLW on his spell list he is free to use wands of CLW.
Seeing how you have a paladin in the group I really don't see the need for a cleric, since the paladin capable of both healing by him/herself and through a wand of CLW...
So as someone else said... Let the guys and gals play what they like.
But I don't see the cleric as gay either. That is just crazy-talk ;-)
Hope you have a good game! I'm starting a CoT campaign soon as well.. looks dark, gritty and awesome!
Edit: And things are pretty much the same whether you are using 3.5 or PRPG, only the paladin in PRPG has a bit more Oomph! to him! ;-)
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Healin'. Patchin' up the wounds. Sewing the Fighter's larynx back in after he took an arrow through the neck and lived and wanted to tell about it. Every player knows the drill. But oddly, a lot of players just use really... silly methods of going about healing themselves, and have some wild misconceptions about how to do it effectively and even how much of a priority it should be.
The Problems
Some players think they *have* to have a cleric or druid to cover the healing role, and place healing as an extremely high priority, even in combat, and even if they don't, many even spend inordinate amounts of money on extremely inefficient healing items that may hurt them more than help them.
To summarize a few common issues:
Players overprioritize healing in combat when there are more effective options available to them.
Players spend too much money on healing, often spending wads of cash on things like potions of Cure Moderate Wounds.
Players believe they can't heal efficiently without a Cleric or Druid or similar class in the party, and view such as an essential role, to the point where some even *force* others to play a Cleric or Druid just so that they can have a dedicated healer, and then downplay the extraordinary talents of those classes and belittle them to a mere healing role, making for an unenjoyable experience for the victim of this treatment.
Many players just don't know how to get the best healing for their buck. Some Information and Comparisons
First, an effort at dispelling some of the myths. First off, you should probably never be buying healing potions, perhaps with the exception of Cure Light Wounds or a similar level 1 spell. The reason for this is simple. The cost is exorbitant, and it's really not worth it. A Cure Serious Wounds potion will heal, on average, 18.5 hp, and it will cost you 750gp, and it will take either a standard or a full round action to use, and it will provoke AoOs unless you did some further investment to prevent that, and on top of that it probably smells bad and tastes bitter. Yuck. For the same price, you could have gotten a Wand of Cure Light Wounds (275hp total instead of 18.5hp), a Wand of Lesser Vigor (550hp total instead of 18.5gp), or a Healing Belt (Either 6d8 hp (average 27 hp) a day, or 18 hp (same as the potion!) per day if you burst heal, usable as a standard action that does not provoke attacks of opportunity.)) Would you rather get 18 hp, or 18 hp per day? Now would you rather use a standard or full action that provokes AoOs, *and* need to draw the item, or would you rather use a standard action that doesn't provoke AoOs? And hey, wouldn't you like the option to heal even more for efficiency, outside of battle? There's even another option, this one for artificers, that costs a mere 50 gp a pop: Infuse an ally with Greater Healing armor. This will give them 6d8+30 total healing (3d8+15 as a swift action, usable twice). As an added bonus, it will even automatically heal you if you get knocked unconscious. The point is... potions are bad. Potions are inefficient. So are scrolls of Cure Moderate Wounds, Cure Serious Wounds, and so forth.
Second, a dedicated healer is not a necessary combat role. Seriously.
First off, healing often does not outpace damage. Moreover, removing an enemy a threat can often be much more effective at saving your allies' necks than going up and poking them with Cure X Wounds. If an enemy were to deal 50 damage to an ally, and you can take that enemy out by either disabling or killing them, then you've "healed" that ally of the 50 damage he would have taken. Additionally, as healing often does not keep up the pace with damage, even if you can't disable the enemy, healing the ally might not be good enough to save them. Instead, you might want to use an ability to help the ally escape, or block the enemy from attacking them (this can be something as simple as Benign Transposition, really). In fact, healing in combat is only situationally a good choice, and is often a subpar tactical option.
Secondly, you can get very efficient out-of-combat healing quite easily without a Cleric or Druid, and indeed a Rogue, Artificer, Paladin, Ranger, Factotum, Warlock, or Bard could fill the healing role with a wand of Cure Light Wounds or Lesser Vigor. In fact, you can even get good, cheap burst healing comparable to the Cleric or Druid's ability at low levels with items like the Healing Belt.
Actually, the Artificer can prove to be a fantastic healer, cheaply (we're talking 37.5% market price here) turning out healing belts, wands of lesser vigor, and providing Greater Healing armor infusions (a mere second level infusion) at an early level. The Paladin and Ranger can use wands of Cure Light Wounds without penalty, and the others can use UMD to master the efficient wands. On top of that, members of *any* class can easily chip in with the very efficient Healing Belt.
These things considered, you really can get by without a Cleric or Druid. In fact, if you do have a Cleric or Druid, they're probably going to be more useful in most combats if they are doing something OTHER than healing, since they have considerable talents in many regards.
How to Heal Effectively
(Author's note: I have excluded a few very potent and efficient means of healing because things like the infinite-healing-for-cheap trap and other such things are just plain abusive, and few sane DMs will allow them)Blessed Bandages (10gp, MiC page 152): 10gp to automatically succeed to stabilize an ally. Can definitely save a friend at very low levels. Wands of Cure Light Wounds (750gp, Core): The hallmark of efficiency. These wands will dish out an average of 5.5hp a pop, and with 50 charges that will add up to 275 total healing. This wand gains an advantage over Lesser Vigor in two respects: Speed of use, and the fact that Lesser Vigor is a Cleric and Druid only spell, and thus is only available to those classes and UMD users, while Paladins and Rangers and the like will stick to Cure Light Wounds. Wands of Lesser Vigor (750gp, Spell Compendium Page 229): These are the most efficient healing wands around! You get 11 hp per pop (though it takes a full minute to gain that 11 hp), and you get a total of 550hp of healing for your 750gp. Healing Belts (750gp, MiC page 110): For 750gp, *anyone* can heal 6d8 hp a day, and even burst heal for 4d8hp as a Standard action with a Touch range, and does not provoke attacks of opportunity like spells and scrolls. Also, with the MiC rules for adding common effects, you don't even need to worry about "keeping the slot free" anymore. You can actually just say, give one of these to everyone in a party of 5 for 30d8 healing per day, and just subsidize your healing costs. This is a great way to keep everyone alive at low levels. As if this weren't good enough, you get feel-good +2 bonus to Heal checks as a bonus. Artificers can heal very effectively with Greater Healing Armor (MiC page 12), dishing out 3d8+15 healing *twice* usable as a swift action, and even automatically healing a character should they fall unconscious. Best of all, this only costs you 50gp for a total of 6d8+30hp healing, and is available at a very low level. Wand of Faith Healing (Spell Compendium): It's kinda cheesy, but it's worth mentioning if your DM allows it. It's exactly the same as Cure Light Wounds, except maximized and only usable on people who share your faith (which can easily just be everyone in your party). I personally don't allow this spell as a DM. Touch of Healing (Reserve Feat, Complete Champion pg 62): This one is for the actual "healers." As long as you have a healing spell of second level or higher ready to cast, you can heal anyone up to half their total hp (but no higher, meaning you have to use more abilities to fully heal them) for free. Basically, for the cost of a feat, you get a lot of free healing. Summon Nature's Ally IV (Core): Summoning a Unicorn nets you a free set of 3 CLWs, 1 CMW, and a Neutralize Poison. It has a caster level of 5th, so that'll total 5d8+20 points of healing (and a neutralize poison). It's even something a druid can cast spontaneously. Not bad. Revivify (Cleric 5, Spell Compendium page 176): Revive your dead buddy for 1000gp as a standard action instead of for 5000gp as a much longer action, and best of all *no level loss.* A no brainer really. You just need to be quick about it, acting within 1 round of the victim's death! Revenance (Cleric 4, Paladin 4, Bard 6): This spell can target any character that died within 1 round / caster level of casting. The subject comes back to life (as if by Raise Dead except with no penalties) and is able to fight (with a +1 morale bonus on attack, damage, and saves against the person who killer her) for 1 minute per level, at the end of which the character dies again. The real seller here is that it has a wider window to cast than Revivify (1 round / level), and moreover the ally will die at the end of the spell (or after being killed again), often allowing you to use Revivify when it would otherwise be impossible (window passed) or too dangerous (in the middle of combat). Delay Death (Cleric 4, Spell Compendium page 63): As an *Immediate Action*, the ally becomes unable to die from hit point damage (they'll still fall unconscious, they just won't die.) This means that you can instantaneously cast this spell when a buddy takes their final hit, and they won't die for 1 round/level (during which time you can finish the encounter, then heal them up.) Can definitely be a lifesaver. Tomb Tainted Soul (Feat, Libris Mortis): This handy feat allows you to be healed by negative energy. This means that a living Dread Necromancer can heal you to full as much as she likes with Charnel Touch, and that you can heal yourself with things like Uttercold metamagiced spells and the like. Amulet of Retributive Healing (2000gp, MiC Page 69): This handy little doodad lets you double up on your healing 3 times per day. When activated (as a swift action) this amulet allows you to cure yourself of an amount of damage equal to however much you cured your buddy of. So, if you cast Heal on your ally, you can activate this item to use a free quickened Heal on yourself. Works with scrolls and everything, too. Collar of Healing (5000gp, MiC page 90): As an *Immediate action* once per day, heal your animal companion of 50hp and cures the Fatigued or Exhausted conditions. Keep your little buddy going. As an added bonus, it works at any range (as long as you're on the same plane), and lets you know your companion's exact hit point total at all times. Heal (Core): Heal is a great spell. It really is. It's the healing spell you actually might want to use in fights fairly often. It heals a ton of damage, and it takes away ability damage, blinded, confused, dazed, dazzled, deafened, diseased, exhausted, fatigued, feebleminded, insanity, nauseated, sickened, stunned, and poisoned. A laundry list of status effects, some of which are quite deadly in their own right! However, Heal is not a necessary party role in and of itself! Again, you don't actually need *any* in-combat healing to have a highly effective party. Still, when you *do* have a Cleric or Druid around, there's no reason they shouldn't have this ready. If you don't have a Cleric or Druid around, you may want to consider a scroll or two of this for those few situations where you really do want a Heal (i.e., your buddy just got blasted for 100 damage and got stunned to boot). Divine Ward (Feat, PHB II): This feat will help out the "true healers," allowing them to use Close Range instead of Touch Range for their healing spells on one ally by spending your Turning attempts. You can get a similar results with Divine Metamagic (Reach Spell) (Which happens to be doubly useful for, say, a ranged Slay Living). Augment Healing (Feat, Complete Divine): Add +2 healing per level of the healing spell cast. Simple and effective for a dedicated healer, should you choose to get one. False Life (Sor/Wiz 2, Core):
Instead of taking up an action to heal during combat, take an action to heal up to 1 hour / level before combat ever happens! See also, Aid (Cleric 2, PHB)Empathic Transfer (Egoist 2, Psychic Warrior 2, XPH): This useful power is the standy of healing as a Psionic character. The method is a little unique as opposed to standard methods of healing, but it works just as well. You eliminate anywhere from 2d10 to 10d10 (depending on augment) hp of damage from an ally, and transfer half of that damage onto yourself. Combined with Vigor (Psion 1, Psychic Warrior 1, XPH), and Share Pain (Psion 2, XPH) both shared to your psicrystal through Share Powers, the temporary hit points will absorb all of the damage. Vigor (Psion 1, Psychic Warrior 1, XPH): This power giives you 5 temporary hit points per power point spent, lasting for a minute per level. It's like healing *before* you ever take damage, and lets you buff beforehand in order to avoid the need to heal in combat. Amulet of Tears (2300gp, MiC page 70): Another source of temporary hit points, this handy item stores 3 charges per day and grants temporary hit points lasting for 10 minutes based on the number of charges spent. For 1 charge, you gain 12 tmporary hit points, and for 3 charges grants 24 temporary hit points. Share Pain (Psion 2, XPH): This power transfers half of the damage dealt to you to a willing subject, and thus helps a good deal with damage mitigation. It lasts for an hour per level, so can last for a full day's worth of encounters, and a popular use is to combine it with a Vigor (Psion 1, Psychic Warrior 1, XPH) power shared with your psicrystal and make your psicrystal the subject, effectively doubling the effect of vigor and transferring a good deal of hp damage onto a target that is often a noncombatant. Shield Other (Cleric 2, Paladin 2, Core): This is much like Share Pain, except it deals half of an ally's damage to you, helping you to protect them. It also adds a +1 resistance bonus to saves and a +1 deflection bonus to AC for the target, as an added plus. Vampiric Touch (Sor/Wiz 3, Duskblade 3, Core): 1d6 damage per two levels, and gain temporary hp equal to the damage dealt. This spell is notable for combining offensive abilities and effective in-combat "healing" into the same attack. This spell is useful in spell storing weapons, or channeled through a Duskblade's "Arcane Channelling" ability. It is generally *not* a good idea for the average mage to run up into melee and try to touch an enemy with it, because the damage will be low and the temporary hp probably won't save you from a world of pain (unless you have other protective spells and such up). Also note that if you're an Unseen Seer or Arcane Trickster, you can increase the amount healed with sneak attacks! Bloodstone weapon enhancement (+1, page 29 MiC): Stores and casts Vampiric Touch just like a spell storing weapon, except that it's automatically empowered. Basically, this will deal extra damage on attacks equal to (1d6 per two caster levels)*1.5, *and* give the wielder of the weapon temporary hp equal to the damage dealt. Thus, you're adding to damage and to healing at the same time! See also: Vampiric Touch. Bodyfeeder weapon enhancement (+3 bonus, XPH): This handy enhancement will grant its wielder temporary hit points equal to the damage dealt by any critical hit he dishes out. With an expanded critical hit range, you can expect this to give a steady stream of temporary hp. This enhancement can be granted by an artificer spending a 3rd level infusion and a small amount of gp. (Note: Though "Wrathful Healing" is almost certainly more effective, it's much less likely to be allowed)
My personal opinion is that someone playing a cleric shouldn't be stuck healing anyway.
I have a cleric with the death domain, he refuses to heal anyone if they are below 0, except at -9 when he will stabilize them. Still conscious? OK I heal. He is not evil mind you, the idea being that is the time when one gets to commune with the god of death. I gave his other domain as strength, as in nothing can withstand death, but war, disease, or famine would work as the other four horsemen. (hmmmm.... nature as disease?, destruction?). I modeled his diety after Pratchet's Death of Rats. O:)
I had a dwarf with earth domain (who also had magic and thought he was a mage). His 'familiar' was a rock that turned into a pet dragon (summon nature's ally wand).
Air domainer who likes to fly. Fire domainer who likes to burn things. Water domainer who drowned and came back.
Coutl worshiper (our phanaton in the savage tide) has travel and healing domains. This is special simply because the domains were picked before we ran into the coautl gaurding the temple of his former worshipers.
Give animal shape (or claw/bite attacks, running bonus, spot/climb/disguise) to an animal priest. If he can not change completely perhaps he can change his eyes to a hawk's or his skin to a chamaleon's, etc.
multi-class with true cleric for free (no penalty to xp or 1-2 levels above the party if the first is cleric).
Leadership as a free feat.
I add the greater domain powers from Dragon 342 to 5th level clerics in my homebrew. heal at range for the heal domain, spirit animal companion for the animal domain etc. I think PF has something similar that could be yoinked.
A simple wand with folks who can cast (paladin/bard) would let people play whatever class they wish too, but hopefully something inspiring will come out of this thread. O:)
hmmm... I don't remember owning any droids.
>>>Reserve Points<<< are your friend.
Figure out which player wants to be a big, beefy fighter type, and then show him the Ordained Champion from the Complete Champion book. I played one once, practically had the party fighter bowing to my melee might. And, when things got bad, I could heal like nobody's buisness.
Also, there are tons of self-healing items out there. You could just toss one to your players. My game had 3 players and no healer, so I gave them each a Healing Belt from the Magic Item Compendium.
Cool, thanks everyone! I knew I could count on you.
He decided on his own to be a cleric of Iomedae, with the idea of a world weary ER doc trying to do some good in this dark, dark world. I'll show him the Ordained Champion, though. He'll like that.
I definetely agree that every player needs to pick their own character, and play who they want, but I hate hate hate TPKs. I am a kind hearted DM (once you get past the bluster) and my players put a lot of work into these characters, so I'll stretch the rules around to keep them alive. Hence, trying to guide someone to be the cleric.
We are indeed using PFRPG, and I haven't had a chance to fully read the paladin class features. If they can cast Cure Light (and other healing spells), then I'll make sure my player is aware that he can use at least those wand. The Bard was a tenative idea, so that's why I was like "Oh noes."
And this is awesome! Thanks so much! Saving it forever!
Healin'. Patchin' up the wounds. Sewing the Fighter's larynx back in after he took an arrow through the neck and lived and wanted to tell about it. Every player knows the drill. But oddly, a lot of players just use really... silly methods of going about healing themselves, and have some wild misconceptions about how to do it effectively and even how much of a priority it should be.....
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The guy who can most effectively play a cleric doesn't want to becuase they are 'gay'.Hmm ... This is the 3.X / OGL forum, which means that the Cleric can wear Heavy Armor and carry a large/heavy Shield, gains the Weapon Focus feat in a Martial Weapon if their deity has the War Domain or else carry a Heavy Morningstar that defeats two types of DR, has an average of only 1hp/level less than a Fighter and nearly as good BAB but also gains Good Will Saves in addition to Fortitude.
On top of all this he has all the best buff spells (bear strength and bull endure alone put him ahead of or even with the Fighter in both HP and hit/damage for 8 levels), a compliment of protections against everything out there (mental attacks, possession, summoned creatures, energy, whatever), and between sanctuary and spontaneous healing can step out of a fight at any time and go from barely alive to fully healed on his own and then re-engage.
What's "gay" about that ???
Maybe he meant that clerics are "gay" in that Alexander-the-Great-kicking-ass-and-taking-names kinda way.
Gay, gay, gay, gay and gay.
Gay: 5 Heterosexual: 0
Incidentally, you have exceeded your gay quota for the day.
Gay, gay, gay, gay and gay.Gay: 5 Heterosexual: 0
Incidentally, you have exceeded your gay quota for the day.
Maybe he meant "happy happy happy happy and happy" gay gay gay gay and gay? ^_^
To play a badass cleric, one needs only to use the wealth of new cleric spells presented in the Spell Compendium. Healing, heavy armor, D8 hit die, rogue base attack bonus, more buff spells than anyone, and now blasting like a wizard? How can that not be badass? I actually think they're TOO powerful.
We have a tiny problem in my group. No one wants to be a cleric. There are 2 players left who haven't rolled up characters, and one of them has to be some type of healer, or at least throw healing spells around. The only other divine caster type is a paladin, and I know a bard could throw around light healing as well, but those two classes combined aren't nearly as effective as a full blown cleric or druid.
As others have stated, a cleric (or druid), while extremely useful is not necessary for a successful party. Most healing can easily be accomplished through wands of cure light wounds in the hands of a bard, paladin, or ranger; a rogue with maxed-out Use Magic Device can also serve. Other wands and potions can be used as well during a foray, with NPC support (i.e., Arael) available at "home." In fact, spreading healing duties around among several PCs can be more effective than a single powerful healer, since it prevents the party from being screwed if the cleric is taken out; it also allows more tactical flexibility and the ability to heal more than one person/affliction at a time without requiring high-level spells.
The party will have to plan a bit more in advance and invest a bit more in limited use magic items, but this is not a bad thing. You also avoid forcing a player into running a specific type PC, instead of something they want. Undead can be an issue, but unless a party is in an undead-heavy campaign (i.e., AoW) the cleric's Turn Undead is hardly going to be a real necessity.
The party has six members, and no one willing to play a divine caster? I know this may seem cruel to some, but I would let them play what they want. They will either make their way with potions and dome use magic device rolls on some wands, or eventually they will have casualties and someone will make a cleric or druid as a new character. I would not bring in an npc cleric for them unless they actively sought one out in game. Then I would role play it from there. I think when you have six people someone should step up even if they aren't a favored class of the players. If they have not ever played a cleric, or druid they may be falling pray to the anti divine propaganda (oh all they do is heal, you don't get to do anything but be a walking band-aid)these classes can offer so much more than that. I wish you luck, and would love to hear how this gets resolved.
I'm with this guy. Let them find out the hard way that a cleric is needed.
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Plenty of good advice from everyone. I admit that for my Shackled City campaign, I included a DMPC Healer. (Yes, the one in the Miniatures Handbook.) I wanted to test the class out. Turned out the class is good for one thing, and I bet you can guess what it is. It certainly helped the group since it was their first time playing and could usually count on me to patch them up. Of course, her being an NPC meant she wasn't always available when I wanted to make them sweat a bit. :) So if you think your party needs something, follow my lead and have fun with it.
Plenty of good advice from everyone. I admit that for my Shackled City campaign, I included a DMPC Healer. (Yes, the one in the Miniatures Handbook.) I wanted to test the class out. Turned out the class is good for one thing, and I bet you can guess what it is. It certainly helped the group since it was their first time playing and could usually count on me to patch them up. Of course, her being an NPC meant she wasn't always available when I wanted to make them sweat a bit. :) So if you think your party needs something, follow my lead and have fun with it.
The healer is actually worse the cleric at healing. Mainly because of the lack of spontaneous conversion of spells.
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I suppose so. Of course, I didn't run it RAW. I made her spontaneously cast with the healer spell list as her spells known. I didn't think that was overly powerful since I could have made her a favored soul and by the end of the campaign had every spell on the healers list as a spell known. Then she would have been capable in combat even.
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Plenty of good advice from everyone. I admit that for my Shackled City campaign, I included a DMPC Healer. (Yes, the one in the Miniatures Handbook.) I wanted to test the class out. Turned out the class is good for one thing, and I bet you can guess what it is. It certainly helped the group since it was their first time playing and could usually count on me to patch them up. Of course, her being an NPC meant she wasn't always available when I wanted to make them sweat a bit. :) So if you think your party needs something, follow my lead and have fun with it.The healer is actually worse the cleric at healing. Mainly because of the lack of spontaneous conversion of spells.
I noticed that too. Not to mention there are feats, domain powers, and prestige classes available to clerics that are not available to Healers. I wanted to make a really "healerish" character in an AoW campaign a number of years back, and decided to go for Cleric/Radiant Servant of Pelor instead (Healing and Sun domains, augment healing feat, etc), because that build was way better at healing than the Healer, and could do a bunch of other stuff to boot.
Here's a fair idea for parties who insist on not having a healer and who cannot afford lots of healing potions. I used a similar device twice and while it was a bit annoying it was quite effective:
Medevac Charm, 200gp, 4 charges: A simple, silver wristband that stabilizes the PC upon reaching negative CON/2 HP (or mostly dead). The PC is immediately teleported to the nearest appropriately aligned healing facility/abbey/enclave/grove/etc. as long as such is within 10d6+10 miles.
If there is no appropriate facility in range, the PC is deposited in the safest area within range, however inconveniently located such may be. The band has a distress beacon feature, allowing another wearer of such a band and/or an appropriately aligned healer to intuit the approximate direction and distance to the evacuee.
Annoying side-effects: getting back to the party. If the charges run out, the price of a replacement charm increases by 1000gp for each replacement (or some other less-than-encouraging cost increase).
negative CON/2 HP (or mostly dead)
[threadjack]
"Inconceivable!"
<dons Holocaust Cloak for protection>
Anybody want a peanut?
Anybody want a peanut?
*nomnomnomnom*
If your player thinks that way about Clerics then it's obvious he doesn't know one bit about the class.
You might also be selling the class the wrong way though. Sell the class as a boring healbot and you'll see players avoiding it like the plague. Now, sell it for what it is (the most powerful class in game which also happens to be the best healer), and you'll have at least one interested player. WotC intentionally overpowered the cleric class because back in AD&D people avoided it like the plague, so they figured they needed to sweeten the deal in order for parties to have a healer.
Introduce them to the Sacred Purification feat from PHB2, this should free their spell slots just enough for them to get acquainted with cleric buffs (also best in game) and fall in love with the class.
Once you go CoDzilla you never go back. ;)
SACRED PURIFICATION
You serve as a conduit of divine energy, filling the area around
you with power that aids the living and saps the undead.
Prerequisites: Sacred Healing, ability to turn undead.
Benefit: As a swift action, you can expend a turn undead
attempt to create a pulse of divine energy. All living
creatures within 60 feet of you heal an amount of damage
equal to 1d8 points + your Charisma bonus (if any). All undead
creatures in this area take damage equal to 1d8 points + your
Charisma bonus.
SACRED HEALING
You can channel divine energy to aid in your efforts to tend
to a comrade’s injuries, sickness, or other conditions.
Prerequisite: Ability to turn undead.
Benefit: As a swift action, you can expend a turn undead
attempt to augment your ability to tend to the wounds of
others. You gain a +5 bonus on Heal checks and a +2 bonus
per die on the damage healed by any conjuration (healing)
spells you cast. This benefit lasts until the end of your
current turn.
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I definetely agree that every player needs to pick their own character, and play who they want, but I hate hate hate TPKs.
Hi, Anna.
You hate TPKs...Don't we all. If only the players would get the clue that we DMs actually want them to succeed. LOL
We are indeed using PFRPG, and I haven't had a chance to fully read the paladin class features. If they can cast Cure Light (and other healing spells), then I'll make sure my player is aware that he can use at least those wand.
Holy Heck! If you're using PF, then the Paladin is a great healer.
I'm running 3.5, but letting one player run a PF Paladin, since the 3.5 version is such a let-down.The abilities have been fluctuating, since we started with the Alpha, through Beta and now Final, but in the current version, there have been a few changes that the players may not be aware of.
Lay on Hands deals more healing per use, equal to a single-target Channel (1d6*paladin level/2), and if used for self-healing, is a swift action, meaning healing can take place without having to break off from combat.
Mercies allow all LoH healing to also cure other status effects (new effects chosen at levels 3/6/9/etc). Do two jobs for one action, and keep friends in the fight.
Full Area-Channelling starts with fewer uses (2 charges of Lay on Hands), but LoH uses increases with level. Effective Channeller level is paladin class level, not (P-3), and since Cha is a prime stat, I find that at level 6, our paladin has as many uses, for the same 3d6 healing, as their main cleric with average Cha.
Spell-casting starts at level 4, as before, but caster level is now paladin level -3, instead of half-level. Extra oomph on all spell variables, and more chance of beating SR, resisting dispels, and using wands/scrolls.
And the extra offence from smiting means the party don't get beaten up as much, so less need to be healed....
Yea cleric really mince about now in their MEDIUM armor!
Just let them run with what they want, it maybe a steep learning curve but not impossible. Has anyone cranked up UMD? That could be the way forward. Just go for it and have fun!!!
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Me, I always go for the simplest path:
1) The PCs tromp around and get bloodied until they recruit an NPC adept as a healer. If the PCs want a cleric, they should take the class themselves.
2) The PCs meet an enemy group that has a kick-butt cleric (and then moan aloud why they don't have one).
3) Both of the above.
Personally, I run my sentient bad guys like a fairly good PC team. As best as their limited resources allow, each group will have some mix of offensive spellcasters, healers, missileers, and melee troops, working together as a combined-arms team. Offensive spellcasters will try to hurt as many good guys as possible, melee troops will guard their spellcasters and try to put the press on the good guys, and missileers will concentrate their firepower where it will do the most good for them. They individually want to live, so the wounded bad guys will break contact and seek healing. Bad guy healers will work to save their buddies. When the bad guys keep healing their own and sending them back after the good guys, the good guys will take the hint and see the wisdom of having a healer of their own.
And yes, the comment about having the cleric fight first and heal later reminds me of the combat medic saying, "The best combat trauma care is fire superiority!"
