Is it just me or is working these things out purely with maths a bit like quantum mechanics where looking at it changes the outcome.
If the situations are always different then the mathematical equations for the power of abilities in those situations are in effect constantly changing thereby making any overall solution unviable in a blanket fashion.
Is it just me or is working these things out purely with maths a bit like quantum mechanics where looking at it changes the outcome.
If the situations are always different then the mathematical equations for the power of abilities in those situations are in effect constantly changing thereby making any overall solution unviable in a blanket fashion.
I think we need to look at this as a philosophical proof, not a mathematical proof. We can then look at it from the viewpoint of logic and see if there are exceptions to the premises. Somewhat different idea.
Totally agree my friend, was highlighting that I was not sure why mechanical proofs are always jumped to first.
Your phrase put it more eloquently.
Totally agree my friend, was highlighting that I was not sure why mechanical proofs are always jumped to first.
Your phrase put it more eloquently.
I think it's because a) we're dealing with a game full of math, which some people particularly specialize in the manipulation thereof, and b) our society has a certain trend for want of a better word to have proof of a statement and we think in more scientific trends. I'm a plant scientist, but I aced my philosophy classes, so I think in both worlds whenever possible. I'm currently undecided on this particular proof, as I haven't examined every premise in excruciating detail.
Besides, using "proof" for this particular case is a matter of personal opinion.
Totally agree my friend, was highlighting that I was not sure why mechanical proofs are always jumped to first.
Your phrase put it more eloquently.
The thread was started as an attempt at a mathematical proof, thus I responded in kind. Also it fits my own personal background.
Truly I trust mathematical proofs on the net more then logical ones, because all too often logic on the net seems less accpetable since we all can't agree with what is and is not logical. But with numbers I can run them myself and if I can find and error (4 = 3 type) it is easy to explain to others and point out.
So are we to assume that troglodytes will still be picking cleric as their favored class most of the time.Um...Improved Stink actually.Pathfinder Clerics must eat a lot of beans.The higher the charisma the more beans a cleric can eat, I hear tell there are even feats like selective stink and more stink.Focused stink could be bad, imagine what would end up of a fumble on that.
Reminds me of a game I once played, call battle lords. There was a race called Ram Pythons that used to believe farts were words from their gods. So before fights they could rip one and they rolled on a chart to see what effect was. A fumble was well messy. A critical success was literally deadly to other air breathers.
I would believe that. Most dangerous monster in that game was : SuckstobeYou. They had a lot of fun with that game and it's rules, but it still played pretty well and we had a blast with it.
I think most of us have made our points here as best we can. I doubt any more pages of this is going to change anyone's minds. Are we in agreement?
I think most of us have made our points here as best we can. I doubt any more pages of this is going to change anyone's minds. Are we in agreement?
I like the finishing off a discussion post where there is some disagreement with an agreement so I err agree. ;)
Pops in, pours salt into wounds and offers everyone BBQ sacred cow
" That thar was some good eatin, Ummm good cow" Proceeds to dance the conga upon the grave of the 3.5 cleric
I think most of us have made our points here as best we can. I doubt any more pages of this is going to change anyone's minds. Are we in agreement?
Yes. Now it's time for "Druids Lost Heavy Armor Profiency!!! OMG!!!"
I think most of us have made our points here as best we can. I doubt any more pages of this is going to change anyone's minds. Are we in agreement?Yes. Now it's time for "Druids Lost Heavy Armor Profiency!!! OMG!!!"
Haha.
I have an even more ridiculous topic:
"Polymorph Was Fine! Why Did Paizo Change It?! WTF?"
LOLs. Can you imagine?
I have seen that topic somewhere, maybe in the alpha forms or on enworld way back
I think most of us have made our points here as best we can. I doubt any more pages of this is going to change anyone's minds. Are we in agreement?
Agreed.
I have seen that topic somewhere, maybe in the alpha forms or on enworld way back
LOLs. I guess there's liable to be many different "You Screwed Over My Favorite Super-Broken Combo! I Hate Paizo!" threads out there.
Is it just me or is working these things out purely with maths a bit like quantum mechanics where looking at it changes the outcome.
If the situations are always different then the mathematical equations for the power of abilities in those situations are in effect constantly changing thereby making any overall solution unviable in a blanket fashion.
I agree that a strictly only numeric analysis is often not extremely meaningful, basically because there are too many variables at play.
On the other hand, too often I see comments were basically someone says, "It is all opinion anyway" to justify any position. I think that is a serious flawed way of discussing issues.
str of 5 becoming str of 47 with one spell was one of the issues
str of 5 becoming str of 47 with one spell was one of the issues
LOL
Tenser's Transformation can stop sobbing in the corner.
Tenser's Transformation can stop sobbing in the corner.
Well that spell has a long tradition of making wizards cry. I mean ones that actually use the spell. Luckily they often die quickly so the tears do have a limited time span.
Tenser's Transformation can stop sobbing in the corner.Well that spell has a long tradition of making wizards cry. I mean ones that actually use the spell. Luckily they often die quickly so the tears do have a limited time span.
Wizards, probably. Eldritch Knights, now...
" That thar was some good eatin, Ummm good cow" Proceeds to dance the conga upon the grave of the 3.5 cleric
If you strike me down, I shall become more powerful than you can possibly imagine.
|
" That thar was some good eatin, Ummm good cow" Proceeds to dance the conga upon the grave of the 3.5 clericIf you strike me down, I shall become more powerful than you can possibly imagine.
Well not quite "more" powerful, I mean you are missing some armor after all. What about;
"If you strike me down, I shall become less armored than you can possibly imagine."?
" That thar was some good eatin, Ummm good cow" Proceeds to dance the conga upon the grave of the 3.5 clericIf you strike me down, I shall become more powerful than you can possibly imagine.
"Deal I could use another minion" Strikes with epic level lighting. Then a truck, a tribble swarm and a pink elephant named skippy
In closing, I'd like to share my Cleric with you guys. I love this character.
Sun Elf
Cleric of Sune
Chaotic Neutral
Level: 6
XP: 17016
Next: 23000
AC......23
Flat....16
Touch...13
CMD.....17
HP......52
Saves
Fortitude.....+10
Reflex........+8
Will..........+11
Other Defenses:
Immune to magical sleep
+2 save vs. Enchantments
+1 to all saves, +1 per 5 levels
Attributes
Strength........10
Dexterity.......16
Constitution....14
Intelligence....16
Wisdom..........16
Charisma........18
SKILLS..........r........b
Appraise........6.......+12
Diplomacy.......6.......+13
Heal............6.......+12
History (K).....1.......+7
Linguistics.....2.......+8
Nobility (K)....1.......+7
Perception......0.......+6
Religion (K)....1.......+7
Sense Motive....6.......+12
Spellcraft......6.......+12
Sleight of Hand.1.......+4 (+1 armored)
Ride............1.......+4 (+1 armored)
Armor Check Penalty: -3
Languages:
Celestial
Carnie Cant
Common
Abyssal
Elven
Sylvan
Giant
FEATS
Cleric proficiencies
Selective Channeling (4)
Extra Channeling
Weapon Finesse
Other Abilities:
Chaotic aura
Dazing Touch OOOOOOO
Resillient Touch OOOOOOO
30' Speed (20 armored)
Fae Friend
+2 to appraise magic items
+2 perception checks
Channel Energy 30' 3d6 (dc 17) OOOOOOOOO
ATTACKS
BAB +4
CMB +4
Masterwork Whip +8 (Disarm +10) 1d3 nonlethal slashing [x2]
No damage to armored characters, Provokes AoO,
May be used to trip, 15' Reach
+1 Silvered Mace +5 (1d8+0 blunt) [x2]
Dagger +7 Thrown +7 (1d4) [19-20]
Range increment 10'
+1 Longbow +8 (1d8+1) [x3]
Range increment 100'
SPELLS
DC 13+ Spell penetration +8
Orisions (4): Create Water, Light, Detect Magic, Stabilize
Level 1 (4+1): Charm Person, Shield of Faith (+3), Shield of Faith (+3), Cause Fear, Entropuc Shield
Level 2 (4+1): Shield other, Zone of Truth, Remove Paralasys, Lesser Restoration, Bull's Strength
Level 3 (3+1): Suggestion, Dispel Magic, Rem. Blind/Deaf
Equipment:
Whip, +1 Mirrored shield (holy symbol), Femur, Belt of Incredible Dexterity +2, 1629gp, Dagger, Holy symbol, Soap, Miner's Lamp (20'), +1 Darkwood Breastplate, 94sp, 50' silk rope, Vestments (x2), Cologne, Ungulent of Timelessness, Mirrored Shield, Rations, Bathtub, Feather Token: Anchor, +1 Longbow, Backpack, Bath Salts, +1 cloak of resistance, Tamora's Coin, 10 Tindertwigs, Washboard
Potions of cure light wounds OOOOO
Wand of cure light wounds OOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOO
Wand of cure light wounds OOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOO
Wand of Lesser Restoration OOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOO OOOOO
Healer's Kit OOOOOOOOOO
Healer's Kit OOOOOOOOOO
Arrows OOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOO
And yes, every time I'm in town I pick up another bottle of Ungulent of Timelessness because I rub a little on my face before bed. I'm not sure what the side-effects of that are going to be in the long run. LOL
Strikes with epic level lighting. Then a truck, a tribble swarm and a pink elephant named skippy
This is just further proof that you hate clerics and want to see them nerfed into oblivion.