In the Pathfinder RPG Beta, the Half-Orc got +2 Str, +2 Wis and -2 Int. Now, in the final book they get a measly +2 to any one of players choice... Is this a mistake, or is there a reason for the lesser power? I thought the original stats made sense, but I guess Paizo thought otherwise.
In the Pathfinder RPG Beta, the Half-Orc got +2 Str, +2 Wis and -2 Int. Now, in the final book they get a measly +2 to any one of players choice... Is this a mistake, or is there a reason for the lesser power? I thought the original stats made sense, but I guess Paizo thought otherwise.
They wanted to emphasize the human part of the half-orc. I don't agree with it, but them be the rules unless your DM says otherwise.
Constitution may not be the highest stat but its often important, because many optimizers never dump con, and will make sure to have at least a 14 in it.
Strength is okay for meleers, but you can still dump it and take weapon finesse. Yeah it will cost a feat, but with all the feats you get now, using a feat does not hurt as bad as it did before. Losing int means losing skill points, and that hurts every class. Unless you are a Barbarian or Paladin you can live without strength.
After Edit: As another poster put it
Lets compare:
Attribute:
Half-elves, half-orcs, and humans all get +2 to one attribute of choice.
Advantage/Disadvantage: Even.
Size:
All three are medium.
Advantage/Disadvantage: Even.
Speed:
All three are normal (30').
Advantage/Disadvantage: Even.
{b}Feats[/b]:
Humans get 1 bonus feat, no further restrictions.
Half-elves get 1 bonus feat, Skill focus that has many choices.
Half-orcs get none.
Advantage/Disadvantage: While it is likely the Human will be given the advantage, it is clear the Half-orc gets the disadvantage.
Skills:
Half-elves and Half-orcs get +2 to one specific skill.
Humans get +1 rank / level.
Advantage/Disadvantage: Likely go to the Human... But the others are contenders.
Languages:
All get Common.
Half-elves and Half-orcs get their half breed heritage language as well.
Advantage/Disadvantage: YMMV. A lot of games I've seen, language hardly plays a factor. I'd call this even, with the caveat that it depends on the individual game.
Racial Blood:
Half-elves and Half-orcs get the half breed racial blood "type."
Advantage/Disadvantage: YMMV. I haven't seen much interaction on this rule. Very few, non-artifact, items even use this mechanic... And even those are usually written with a flavor of fairly rare existence. I'd call this even, with the caveat that it depends on the individual game.
Weapon Familiarity:
Half-orcs get proficiency in Great Axe's and Falcions plus any weapon with orc in the title are counted as martial.
Advantage/Disadvantage: YMMV. It really depends on the character. "Most" characters that will get use out of this already have proficiency in Great Axe and Falchion, and (for now) the orc double axe is the only weapon to get this benefit. The characters that don't already have the proficiencies, aren't likely to be the ones using them. Clerics, sure. But the other non-warrior classes? Not so likely. Advantage still goes to the Half-orc, but only marginally at best.
Vision:
Humans have standard vision.
Half-elves have low-light vision.
Half-orcs have darkvision.
Advantage/Disadvantage: This one is a bit difficult to call. Since Darkvision is a 2nd level spell, it means that it isn't unreasonable to expect any character to have it - if they want it. At least for a few rounds. In a low magic game, or at lower levels Darkvision is a clear advantage. I'll give the advantage to Half-orcs for fairness, but I don't buy it as a real advantage.
Special Abilities:
Half-orcs get orc ferocity, and Half-elves get elven immunities AND multitalented.
Advantage/Disadvantage: I'd have to go to the Half-elf here. While it could be said that immunity to magical sleep effects and a +2 save verses enchantments, plus a bonus that only occurs if you multi-class are not that useful, I feel the same is to be said for orc ferocity. YMMV, but mechanically, the advantage has to go to the Half-elves.
Since they are all "fair" in appearance, there is no reason for you to NOT take Human or Half-elf and call the character descendant from orcs.
That leaves only the mechanicals to separate them.
Need Darkvision or proficiency with Great Axe and Falchion with no other way to get it - go Half-orc.
Expect to spend an unhealthy amount of time bellow zero HPs - go Half-orc.
Yay for the Half-orc upgrade. They are no longer picked on, but at the expense of any real reason to pick them beyond flavor. Flavor you could spread all over a Human or Hal-elf and get better mechanics out of it.
snip
Thanks that is an interesting way to break it down.
In my opinion I think they should have a done something a little different to represent the half-races from the human. My idea would have been to allow the half-orc to apply the +2 only to one of his physical stats(Str,Dex,Con) and the half-elf to only apply it to one of his mental stats(Int,Wis,Cha). Then the humans could have been left to apply the +2 to any stat. That way humans appear the most adaptable and the half races are well half adaptable. =)
The last thing I was thinking about was giving humans three favored classes to represent their adaptable, flexible, and ambitious nature. Of course that is all just my humble opinion.
Moved to general discussion.
Racial Blood:
Half-elves and Half-orcs get the half breed racial blood "type."
Advantage/Disadvantage: YMMV. I haven't seen much interaction on this rule. Very few, non-artifact, items even use this mechanic... And even those are usually written with a flavor of fairly rare existence. I'd call this even, with the caveat that it depends on the individual game.
I'd call this a weakness for both half-elves and half-orcs. For ranger's favored enemy and bane weapon special property, those races get shafted whenever either of their races is targeted. In my experience, most npc rangers get favored enemy human, but this is dependant on campaign and DM. Oh yeah, and because half-orcs are counted as orcs whenever in might affect them specially, dwarves have an easier time hitting them.
Interesting idea, though I would probably not put it quite like that. I think that there is no reason while half-orcs would be extraordinarily agile or dexterous but same is not true for half-elves... So I would adapt your idea to letting half-elves choose from DEX, INT, CHA and half-orcs choose from STR, CON, WIS.
Actually I like that better myself. Thanks
I don't really like that one. Half-elves have been made the best class for multiclass builds as they can choose 2 favored classes instead of one like all the other races.
To me I always remembered humans being better at dual classing or multiclassing. Even back in AD&D. So I am not as big on the half-elf getting that ability now. With the newer way races are described I guess it makes sense for the half-elf maybe...
And humans don't really need anything more. The +2 to any ability and bonus skillpoints and +1 feat is very good incentive to choose them already.
Eh, +1 Skill point and 1 extra feat really isn't the do all, end all that it used to be. Feats are hard to pass up but all of the other races are a lot better than humans now, unfortunately.