Magus "harmful spells" and spell strike

[Radyn]

I have a player running a Magus with a bow using "Starlit Span" and "expansive spellstrike".

Any thoughts on this build? For now he's used it to send an arrow which does damage plus extra damage from Gale Burst. How would that work with Phase Bolt, Telekenetic Projectile, chill spray?

Also, he has "Arcing Cascade", can he send an arrow with a spell and then use arcing cascade to charge up a weapon in it's sheath on his belt?

I know the questions are a bit all over the place, but any help would be great!

EJ

[Ascalaphus]

I play a starlit span magus and it's been great fun. To answer your questions -

Gale Blast isn't actually legal with Expansive Spellstrike, since it doesn't target someone else (it's centered on you) and it's area isn't a burst, line or cone (it's an emanation).

Phase Bolt and Telekinetic Projectile are classic spell-attack single target spells so they don't need and don't benefit from expansive spellstrike.

Chilling Spray is interesting, because starlit span + expansive spellstrike actually makes cone spells much better than normal. And yeah, this is legit. Just use the cone shape and make sure the enemy you're shooting is in the first square of the cone. But the cone can go in any direction, so it's much easier to angle it to hit a lot of enemies than with the classic cone that comes from the caster.

Arcane Cascade isn't tied to a weapon, it's tied to you. So you can cast a regular spell, or do a spellstrike, and go into arcane cascade. After that, you get the bonus damage on any melee attack, whether that's with a weapon you draw later or with a punch. But it's only on melee attacks.

There aren't that many arcane cantrips that expansive spellstrike works with, because actually most of them work with spell attacks so it's not even needed. But it works with chill touch, electric arc and puff of poison. But it's mainly good with later spells like lightning bolt, enervation, cone of cold and vampiric exsanguination, because the area of effect of those spells becomes way easier to shape. (It's also fine with hideous laughter, slow, and unspeakable shadow.)

An important detail of expansive spellstrike is that the spell can work even if you miss (but not critically miss). So if you compare using that with electric arc, against telekinetic projectile, you end up with these situations:

* Electric Arc: if the arrow hits, criticall hits, or misses, the enemy still has to deal with the electric arc, but gets a save against electric arc. Since the spell doesn't have an area, you get to target only the target of your arrow.
* Telekinetic Projectile: if the arrow hits or critically hits, then telekinetic projectile also hits or critically hits. Otherwise it misses.

So expansive spellstrike is good if you want to make sure you do at least a little bit of damage, while regular spellstrike is good if the enemy has really low AC and your chances for a crit are good.

Overall I think it's a really nice feat.

[HumbleGamer]

I have wondered a lot about exansive spell strike, and ended up not getting it because of the odds.

I admit it's not rare for a pure spell caster ( higher DC compared to a 16 int magus ) to see enemies do success/critical success, and the odds would only get higher with a magus.

In the end, I ended up getting supportive spells or extra spell hit ones, but before that I managed to get some more true strikes and a damaging focus spell ( everybody goes with imaginary weapon ) in order to have a great cantrip to use for spellsyrike.

Sometimes I made good use of electric arc, to be honest, but I wouldn't stick with aoe spells because it's not rare to see them fail.

Ps: dropping into also may allow you to get way, way better stats. It's something I'd consider.

Pps: if anybody has some tips to get close to a spell caster DC ( in addition to start with 16 int), I'd like to know those.

[Errenor]

Radyn wrote:

For now he's used it to send an arrow which does damage plus extra damage from Gale Burst.

Gale Burst can't be used with Spellstrike at all, even with Expansive Spellstrike, it's not a spell attack spell and RAW it doesn't even have an Area. Informally it has emanation area which still can't be used with Expansive Spellstrike.

Radyn wrote:

How would that work with Phase Bolt, Telekenetic Projectile, chill spray?

First two by normal Spellstrike rules, the third one - by Expansive Spellstrike rules.

Radyn wrote:

Also, he has "Arcing Cascade", can he send an arrow with a spell and then use arcing cascade to charge up a weapon in it's sheath on his belt?

I have no idea what "Arcing Cascade" is and can't find any. If you mean normal Arcane Cascade then yes, Starlit Span Magus can use it.

[Eoran]

HumbleGamer wrote:

Pps: if anybody has some tips to get close to a spell caster DC ( in addition to start with 16 int), I'd like to know those.

I know of exactly zero items or feats that influence spellcasting attack bonus or DC.

Magus, with their ability to use their weapon attacks - including the item bonus from their weapon runes - already has a better 'spellcasting' attack bonus than most classes can get. But yes, that does cause them to be one of the rare classes that has a lower spellcasting success rate with save DC spells than they do with attack roll spells.

[Cordell Kintner]

HumbleGamer wrote:

I have wondered a lot about exansive spell strike, and ended up not getting it because of the odds.

Assuming you max Int as much as you can"

there is no difference at levels 5, 6, 9, 17, and 18
A 1 point difference at levels 1-4 and 10-14
A 2 point difference at levels 7, 8, 15, 16, and 19
And a 3 point difference at level 20

So 5 levels with no difference, 8 with a 1 point difference, 5 with a 2 point difference, and one with a 3 point difference.

Yes, most of the time you will be behind in your Spell DC, but usually only by one point, so it's not really a big deal. If you want more spells, just get Wizard Dedication since you get to prep out of the same spellbook.

[HumbleGamer]

Cordell Kintner wrote:

HumbleGamer wrote:

I have wondered a lot about exansive spell strike, and ended up not getting it because of the odds.

Assuming you max Int as much as you can"

there is no difference at levels 5, 6, 9, 17, and 18
A 1 point difference at levels 1-4 and 10-14
A 2 point difference at levels 7, 8, 15, 16, and 19
And a 3 point difference at level 20

So 5 levels with no difference, 8 with a 1 point difference, 5 with a 2 point difference, and one with a 3 point difference.

Yeah that's definitely a lot.

Reason why I concede myself to use support spells ( invis, stoneskin, fiery body, contingency, hast, etc... ) or DC based electric arc ( just this one) when playing a magus.

Anything else goes for spellstrike ( focus spells and, eventually, additional spells from slots or striker's scroll ) and getting more true strike as possible.

I kinda prefer the summoner because of the 2 separate stats block

Quote:

there is no difference at levels 1-6, 9-14, 17-18

A 2 point difference at levels 7, 8, 15, 16, and 19

So, it's like a full spellcaster for most ( and 60% of the maluses are from lvl 15 on, so you'll get a wonderful experience at low/mid level ) of the time, without renouncing to the combatant part.