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I think Varys sees Jon as somebody who wouldn't necessarily make good decisions on his own but who could be easily manipulated by someone smarter. Of course, he wants the person manipulating him to be himself rather than Daenerys.
Poor Tormund.
I think Varys sees Jon as somebody who wouldn't necessarily make good decisions on his own but who could be easily manipulated by someone smarter. Of course, he wants the person manipulating him to be himself rather than Daenerys.
I think the thing about varys is that he doesn't think it has to be him. He would happily tag out of the position to someone that would do a good job, like tyrion.
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Still wondering if the Mountain now counts as 'dead' enough for the Night King to control.
Hm.
That’s interesting. Erik Mona, Greg Vaughan, Lou Agresta and I were discussing this at Gencon circa 2017, and we assumed The Mountain was now an alchemical golem rather than undead.
Qyburn being an Alchemist/Expert rather than a Necromancer.
Let’s not forget the two lovebirds we can blame for saving Qyburn’s life.
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Still wondering if the Mountain now counts as 'dead' enough for the Night King to control.Hm.
That’s interesting. Erik Mona, Greg Vaughan, Lou Agresta and I were discussing this at Gencon circa 2017, and we assumed The Mountain was now an alchemical golem rather than undead.
Qyburn being an Alchemist/Expert rather than a Necromancer.
Let’s not forget the two lovebirds we can blame for saving Qyburn’s life.
I've always seen him as a flesh golem, Frankenstein's Monster or The Beast of Lepidstadt, but less intelligence. I don't think he's all Gregor's body under that armor, and flesh golem crafting is necromantic enough for expulsion from Planetos' low magic setting police.
Right now I think that would be an improvement on how things are going to go.
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Qyburn gives Cersei just what she wanted
Or an army of mountains. When he saw the wight everyone else was freaking out he looked like Da Vinci staring at a boeing and making notes.
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They're dothraki. They kind of have one attack button.
Apart from in the baggage train attack, when they used horse archers and Dany's dragons to engage from range and then blast holes in the Lannister infantry lines, then rode through those holes to divide up the Lannister army and then destroy it in detail.
The Dothraki are light and ranged cavalry, not heavy, and they win a lot because they know their limits. What they were doing at Winterfell is really odd, especially given that their numbers seem to have mysteriously fallen (Dany took 100,000 Dothraki from Vaes Dothrak in Season 6, and there's certainly nowhere near that many at Winterfell).
I like the theory that the Dothraki were supposed to harry the flanks of the undead army, using burning arrows to light them up and give the artillery something to fire at, but Melisandre's magic burning sword trick made them wildly overconfident and got them all killed.
They had their swords out to begin with. They didn't look like they had bows and arrows on them.
They had their swords out to begin with. They didn't look like they had bows and arrows on them.
That's why I liked the theory, but didn't consider it particularly plausible. The stupidity of the writers is, alas, a more likely explanation.
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Yeah, there's just so much visual evidence that the writers/director always intended them to do a full-frontal charge.
They were always intended to do a head on charge.
Really, that map is completely backwards to how they should have planned it. That plan is good for a similar sized opposing army with no cavalry, and light equipment. Now, two of those factors are true of the undead horde, but one is clearly false... AND that falseness of that factor is already acknowledged on the map.
Against a foe with superior numbers you'd invert the Unsullied and free folk. Put the free folk in the middle, and use the Unsullied to a) hold their flank and b) regulate how much of the enemy the free folk have to face. The free folk being less organized you want to limit their engagement field and give them less to focus on. If they can overwhelm their enemy, then they Unsullied open up the line and give the free folk more room to operate. The drothaki should be in the rear and flank, preventing the enemy from getting behind the Unsullied.
The Northerners literally set up their lines in the worst way possible. Not just a bad way, but the worst way. They gave the free folk the largest amount of line to protect, put the drothraki out front, and set themselves up for maximal casualties.
The only theory that works IMO is that the Northerners intentionally "lost" the battle in order to draw the Night King to Bran. But that makes zero sense when the only obvious plan they had was for Theon to personally defeat the Night King.
Essentially they even say this during the planning scene. Bran says if he's exposed the Night King will come for him. Theon volunteers to guard him, and everyone else is like "Yeah, that sounds like enough to kill the Night King if he shows."
They didn't even have a signal fire for Theon to light to notify Jon and Dany if the Night King arrived.
If I were going to be using the Dothraki in the battle, I would have them wait at some distance and coming charging on the sides and rear, targeting the white walkers. Take out a single walker and you put down all the dead that individual personally raised, at least for a short period of time. Jon has seen the dead in action...he should have known that charging head along wouldn't work.
This week was just more personally aggravating, and sort of the straw that broke my suspension of disbelief. Your telling me that Varys had NO CLUE they were building giant ballista in mass and arming Euron's fleet? Seriously? I will finish off the series but I don't have much hopes it will be a satisfying end
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Welcome to the club. We are having jackets made.
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Qyburn gives Cersei just what she wantedOr an army of mountains. When he saw the wight everyone else was freaking out he looked like Da Vinci staring at a boeing and making notes.
Qyburn: Good thing I am wearing robes, otherwise everyone would see my massive wood.
If I were going to be using the Dothraki in the battle, I would have them wait at some distance and coming charging on the sides and rear, targeting the white walkers. Take out a single walker and you put down all the dead that individual personally raised, at least for a short period of time. Jon has seen the dead in action...he should have known that charging head along wouldn't work.
This week was just more personally aggravating, and sort of the straw that broke my suspension of disbelief. Your telling me that Varys had NO CLUE they were building giant ballista in mass and arming Euron's fleet? Seriously? I will finish off the series but I don't have much hopes it will be a satisfying end
Stay away from the chans,reddit and SomethingAwful to keep form being spoiled. SA is somewhat better at that since they have a separate spoiler thread.
I do read spoilers of movies and books all the time and still see them for the visual stuff. But howdy, considering that past leaks have lined up right, things get worse.
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They're Arya and the hound
Arya and the hound
One is a psycho and the others unsound
for loads of deadpan mirth
they'll put you in the earth
They're Arya and the hound
Arya and the hound hound hound hound hound hound hound...
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Hmph..Couldn't leave it at just the Red Keep could you?
Welp that escalated quickly.
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It was said last episode that about half of the Unsullied and half the Dorthaki remained after the Battle of WinterfellI thought that ** spoiler omitted **
At least you could see the battle this week.
Cloning. Unsullied and Drothaki are cloned from spores.
The whole bells thing was something Quasimodo-like 'THE BELLS! THE BELLS!'
So...yeah....that escalated quickly...
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now THATS more like it.
Danny must have taken improved mounted combat...
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Of course she rides a pale horse...
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Jon: Are we the bad guys?
Well, this was extremely disappointing on many levels.
Drogaerys single handedly takes out the entire Iron Fleet, every scorpion on the walls, the Golden Company and the outer wall to King's Landing as the prelude to attack -- demonstrating a massive and unexplained jump in both tactical competency and Armor Class/Dodge.
Danaerys's coin flip lands scarred side up, so she ends her arc as the irredeemably insane destroyer of thousands of innocents. Her anger has become more important to her than anything. The only reward for Jon and Tyrion's faith in her is disappointment and horror.
Grey Worm breaks surrender, forcing Jon to do the same just to survive. His anger has become more important to him than discipline. For all their "King in the North!" verbal support, Jon's own troops won't listen to his commands to stand down.
Arya doesn't get to kill anyone. Now, this is fine if her scene with Sandor is intended to free her from the whole revenge-focused assassin thing completely and let her ride off to a new life with a clean slate, but...as what? And why drag her all the way to King's Landing first?
Arya doesn't get to help anyone. the group of people who refused to follow her out of their hiding place were presumably killed as buildings continued to crumble around them, and the woman and child who did follow her became briquettes.
Cersei gets to die with the only person she loves, in a quick and easy building collapse.
Everyone in tonight's episode is worse off, with the arguable exception of The Hound.
Okay, is that danny's horse from season 1 ?
Arya offs Danny (Or jon snow does)
Arya marries gendry
Gendry is now lord of storms end and roberts heir which... makes him the most legitimate king and Arya potentially the most legitimate queen once they off the mad queen 2.0
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S8 Episode 5 title - The Bells
I doubt The Golden Company having elephants would have mattered.
Hungry drogon would beg to differ!
Drogaerys single handedly takes out the entire Iron Fleet, every scorpion on the walls, the Golden Company and the outer wall to King's Landing as the prelude to attack -- demonstrating a massive and unexplained jump in both tactical competency and Armor Class/Dodge.
I don't think tonight was the problem: everything there is what a dragon is SUPPOSED to be in this setting. It's not a living thing it's not a a weapon it's an unstopable force of nature and it goes where the targaryn points and destroys what they point at.
I think last weeks episode was the problem with the easy nat 20's and hide in plain sight from villian sue Euron. They could have had him do something clever like disguise the balistae as one of the dragons of dragon stone with some of his guys wearing unsullied armor but nope.. I'm so cool you can't see my FLEET on the ocean.
Danaerys's coin flip lands scarred side up, so she ends her arc as the irredeemably insane destroyer of thousands of innocents. Her anger has become more important to her than anything. The only reward for Jon and Tyrion's faith in her is disappointment and horror.
This was not unforshadowed. Her whole family seems to suffer from madness that can set in at any time and she's been playing with that coin since day 1. She's always had such irredeemably evil people to aim at: her brother, the slavers, that her more burn em all tendencies looked like rightous anger rather than narcicism
Grey Worm breaks surrender, forcing Jon to do the same just to survive. His anger has become more important to him than discipline. For all their "King in the North!" verbal support, Jon's own troops won't listen to his commands to stand down.
They started to, then a Kingslandinger tried to stab John, so john stabbed him and that was pretty much the end of that surrender attempt. I don't think he was angry i think his options were to go back on the surrender that the locals couldn't go in on without the unsullied slaughtering them. He was visibly horrified by what was happening and tried to contain it but battles are chaotic conditions.
The northerners are a LOYAL fighting force. Discipline ... well they're better than dothraki.
Arya doesn't get to kill anyone. Now, this is fine if her scene with Sandor is intended to free her from the whole revenge-focused assassin thing completely and let her ride off to a new life with a clean slate, but...as what? And why drag her all the way to King's Landing first?
1) Enjoy one last road trip with a friend who understands you before shuffling off this mortal coil.
2) I'm sure if Danny had held off for a few days and the palace had been quiet and you know, not on fire, he would have let her go for it.
3) the show runners needed a character we cared about to show the perspective of the humans stuck in danzillias wrath.
Arya doesn't get to help anyone. the group of people who refused to follow her out of their hiding place were presumably killed as buildings continued to crumble around them, and the woman and child who did follow her became briquettes.
So GOT is back to subverting the heroes thing...
I'll try to say only nice things.
It was beautifully shot.
Arya's sequences was the best part of the plot of the episode. It was a little superfluous, but all the elements were fine and I liked how it was written.
Yeah I didn't like the episode overall, but staying positive Clegane Bowl was beautiful, and the fantasy eye candy was great.
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Anyone who thought this show would have a happy ending hasn't been paying attention.
Don't assume you know my expectations.
Okay... you're right that he didn't name me specifically. But he did make a claim about a vague "anyone" after a couple of posts expressing disappointment about the episode.
Am I reading his post wrong? Or are you saying I'm not included in "anyone"?
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Dany's turn seems like something that will/would happen in the books, the difference being that the books would give a much slower build up, rather than what we got here. Here it seems less organic and more the showrunners going Well...time to check this box.