According to the Bard preview I recently looked through, Bardic Music no longer has a number of times per day, but a number of rounds per day, non-consecutive.
So, being backwards compatible, how does the new Bardic Music work with the healthy chunk of Bardic Music feats released in other 3.5e supplements? Each one required a use of Bardic Music to activate. How will it work now that instead of uses, it's a number of rounds?
Thank you.
According to the Bard preview I recently looked through, Bardic Music no longer has a number of times per day, but a number of rounds per day, non-consecutive.
So, being backwards compatible, how does the new Bardic Music work with the healthy chunk of Bardic Music feats released in other 3.5e supplements? Each one required a use of Bardic Music to activate. How will it work now that instead of uses, it's a number of rounds?
Thank you.
Each round you want to use it you spend another round of Bardic Music. So if you wanted to use Iron Skin chant for example you would spend the round it would activate. If you want to use it again you spend another round next round.
For things like Metamagic Song I would just go with 1~3 rounds = 1 use of bardic music.
For things like Metamagic Song I would just go with 1~3 rounds = 1 use of bardic music.
2 rounds = 1 use seems the most appropriate to me, since you get 2 rounds per level just like you got 1 use per level in 3.5.
+1For things like Metamagic Song I would just go with 1~3 rounds = 1 use of bardic music.2 rounds = 1 use seems the most appropriate to me, since you get 2 rounds per level just like you got 1 use per level in 3.5.
This seems the easiest conversion, but in all honesty, I'd probably push for 1 = 1. Yes, by level 20 you're looking at roughly double what a 3.5 bard had, but the general worth of what a round of bardic music means is in NO way equal to what a use of 3.5 bardic music was.
Bardic music, now, is more powerful than 3.5. I think it bears taking into consideration. I would recommend that it be 1 for 1 but require burning 1-3 additional uses depending on the feat/PrC.
Yeah it really comes down to what you are using it for. The Lyric Spell could be very powerful doing a 1 for 1 (as could metamagic spell) however other uses really are just an equal trade (the ironskin chant for example).
Yeah it really comes down to what you are using it for. The Lyric Spell could be very powerful doing a 1 for 1 (as could metamagic spell) however other uses really are just an equal trade (the ironskin chant for example).
Bingo. The whole thing is going to have to come down to DM ruling. I'd probably go 2 per level for Lyric Spell and 3 per level for Metamagic Spell if it were me.
I see. I was kinda thinking along the same lines, was curious for everyone elses' input.
Yeah, I don't think I'm going to like the round-basis for Bardic Music uses. I don't understand the example given on the preview with the joke about the Cleric, Fighter, Rogue, and Wizard wishing they had someone to use boost their abilities and the Bard says "Sorry, I'm all out of uses." Because it's just the same situation again with the new system "Sorry, I'm all out of rounds of use." Is there a real mechanical difference I am seeing here? Even with the original version, some of the bardic music abilities lasted as long as you performed. If a fight goes to Round 10, the bard's music was still going. Now, I think, the bard is just going to be conserving his bardic music uses even more than before. Unless I am reading something wrong, I might be.
I see. I was kinda thinking along the same lines, was curious for everyone elses' input.
Yeah, I don't think I'm going to like the round-basis for Bardic Music uses. I don't understand the example given on the preview with the joke about the Cleric, Fighter, Rogue, and Wizard wishing they had someone to use boost their abilities and the Bard says "Sorry, I'm all out of uses." Because it's just the same situation again with the new system "Sorry, I'm all out of rounds of use." Is there a real mechanical difference I am seeing here? Even with the original version, some of the bardic music abilities lasted as long as you performed. If a fight goes to Round 10, the bard's music was still going. Now, I think, the bard is just going to be conserving his bardic music uses even more than before. Unless I am reading something wrong, I might be.
I would imagine some bards were using up all their daily uses, because they would perform and automatically abandon it the next round, to start up another bardic ability, or do something else, and then run out of uses.
If the new bard has many, many rounds of use, then they likely won't run out.
On the other hand, now that they can actually take actions, while performing, they're more likely to burn up those extra rounds.
Just as an anecdote in that regard, our Pathfinder Beta Curse of the Crimson Throne group met tonight. I'm playing a Bard in the campaign. Tonight we more-or-less finished up the Catacombs era of the first module, and the "end boss" of the catacombs was a running fight that took easily 20 rounds of combat. Throughout all of that, I was able to keep my Inspire Courage running with only two uses (and the second use is only because I got paralyzed by the BBEG). With the Final version, I'd have to have been a nigh-Epic level bard to maintain Inspiration for the whole fight. The character is level 3.
I see. I was kinda thinking along the same lines, was curious for everyone elses' input.
Yeah, I don't think I'm going to like the round-basis for Bardic Music uses. I don't understand the example given on the preview with the joke about the Cleric, Fighter, Rogue, and Wizard wishing they had someone to use boost their abilities and the Bard says "Sorry, I'm all out of uses." Because it's just the same situation again with the new system "Sorry, I'm all out of rounds of use." Is there a real mechanical difference I am seeing here? Even with the original version, some of the bardic music abilities lasted as long as you performed. If a fight goes to Round 10, the bard's music was still going. Now, I think, the bard is just going to be conserving his bardic music uses even more than before. Unless I am reading something wrong, I might be.
The joke is slightly misleading. The point it was trying to make is that you are more likely to do things like Inspire Competence than you were in 3.5 as Competence now only burns one round of music rather than one use of music.
Unfortunately, the Paizo designers balanced the Bard assuming an average of 20 rounds of combat per day - 5 rounds per encounter and 4 encounters per day. If your encounters only last 5 rounds then the PfRPG Bard has about the same amount of music available for Inspire Courage, Competence, et. al. However, if your encounters average more than 5 rounds then the PfRPG Bard winds up with far too few uses of their music abilities and is less likely to use it for things like Inspire Competence as they will be hoarding all of their rounds for Inspire Courage.
Chalk this all up as an example of why play testing is important. In the Bard preview thread the designers admitted that they had based the rounds per day mechanic on their play style and suggested that if your play style features more than 20 rounds of combat per day then you should increase the number of rounds per day that the Bard receives.
Yeah we begged for a Bard Focus like the fighter, ranger, barbarian, and animal companions got but there wasn't enough time.