I've been running Burnt Offerings for a group of 4 players (at 4th level). They just took out all of the top level of Thistletop. They then decided to lock themselves in a room and sleep for the night... Without setting watches.. Common sense, not so much..
So, I'm trying to get opinions of best way to handle the other residents reactions in Thistletop without completely killing off my party.
I rolled percentages thru the night to see if anyone wandered up - as the initial combat went fast and didn't make too much noise. In the middle of the night, someone did wander up. They witnessed the dead bodies, tried the door to Ripnuggets room where the party was sleeping - waking up one of the light sleepers and headed back down the stairs.
My initial thought was that it was one of Ripnuggets wives.. She saw him dead, doesn't know who did it - and fled back down again. She could
a.) Stay in the harem with Bruthazmus in hopes she stays safe - as he is most likely the new leader of Thistletop.
b.) Return screaming, alerting everyone of what is going up above so they can shore up their defenses and have everyone waiting on the first dungeon level for the adventurers to show up.
c.) Same as b. except that Nualia is busy on the lower level and nobody wants to disturb her.
I am really concerned that if I throw everyone at my party at once, I'll kill them off and although they are pretty crazy to camp out where they did - I'd like them to have a slight chance of survival.
What do you think would be a good compromise between rewarding them for bad decisions and outright overpowering them?
Thanks!
Jonathan
(who is really enjoying running this campaign)
|
Interesting development. If I were you...
Bruthazmus would probably start patrolling around the second level. He could be encountered anywhere. With or without the goblin wives.
If your party didn't kill Tsuto, I'd have him hole up with Lyrie in her research room, and make Orik stand guard in the chapel. If he's dead, put Orik with her.
And like you said, Nualia's probably to busy to tolerate any interruptions.
Good luck! let us know how it turns out.
I like what Darkeyes suggested, but I'd add these tidbits:
Remember that Bruthasmus, like most bugbears, is lazy and opportunistic. Though he probably would assume leadership of the tribe, he wouldn't physically do much himself unless he was forced into a corner. He would probably arrange for a small party of goblins and goblin dogs to sweep through Thistletop, while another party searches the surrounding region out to a mile or two (mostly to make sure the PCs are gone).
The goblin dogs sweeping through Thistletop would likely sniff out the PCs after a few hours (sooner if Nuala sends a yeth hound or two to assist them). The bugbear himself would probably hold up in the harem room, with a few extra goblins (and Ripnugget's wives, of course) as security. They may even lay some simple snares or alarm traps in the upper halls.
If the goblins locate the PCs, Bruthasmus would send EVERY LAST goblin after them. This is especially true if the PCs are recognized as the heroes that fought off the goblins in the raid on Sandpoint. He already knows the PCs are tough hombres, so overwhelming force is really his only choice. He would direct the attack, but from the rear.
If Bruthasmus is particularly frightened of the PCs, he may just try to seal them in Ripnugget's room and starve them out. He might even do this after sending a wave of goblins after them and he sees how quickly the PCs dispatch them. He could have goblins nail the door shut and then pile it closed with furniture, stone blocks, whatever.
Regardless of his plans, the bugbear would send word to Nuala about Ripnugget's death. She and her hirelings would definitely be on high alert for the next day or two.
Those are just some initial thoughts. My group heads to Thistletop in another session or two, so I'm curious to see how your game develops. Keep us posted!
My party ran away from the Thistletop after they went down stairs after all the combats with level one. They were later ambushed by all 4 (Tstuo has escaped) and ended up winning the fight when they convinced Orik and Lyrie to just leave
|
Well...
On the one hand, your players aren't that bright. And for that, I usually like to punish players (though not to the point of a TPK). So something has to happen, such as some baddies ganging up or some surprise round shenanigans.
On the other hand, goblins aren't that smart either. So while finding their king dead and someone sleeping in his room (or wherever) may not jive that well. I'd use some goblins bashing down the door to wake them up. Make it a lot of them, but since they're goblins and dumb, the party won't die, since they'll just have 1 round to prepare.
They'll still take some damage, but it'll shock some sense into them when they are fighting giants later, and decide to sleep in the dungoen.
Good luck!
Interesting development. If I were you...
Thanks for the suggestions everyone!
I think I'll have Bruthasmus & Orik scouting the halls, with Orik insisting on Lyrie to stay in the temple with the yeth hounds. The goblin wives will have pushed all the furniture against the door in their room. Nualia will be busy below, unaware for the time being.
There are no other goblins or goblin dogs left at this point, as all on the upper level are dead.
The goblin wife didn't see any of the adventurers, but did see the horse loose in the courtyard - which was the last straw before she fled back to the lower level. In any case, I can deal with them waiting until morning to check on the upper levels and see what survived.. See if the party gets down there before they go up I guess.
...
On a side note, one more day in game to see if our rogue/cleric ends up with lockjaw *grin*.
Thanks again! Our game is Thursday. I'll post with how things turn out.
Jonathan
Happened in my game.
I ruled that Nualia herself couldn't be bothered with the distraction, and sent Orik and Bruth to sweep the whole place. Given that they had all night, I just had them find the PCs, and attacked. They lived. The end. :)
I finally got to run this again last night, as schedule conflicts kept us from playing last week. It was a good game.
So I decided that it was one of the goblin wives that saw the dead bodies, no PCs and the loose warhorse in the field. She came back down ranting about the horse killing everyone. Bruthazmus wasn't going to disturb anyone else that late at night, but kept watch with Orik at the bottom of the stairs. They were getting ready to head upstairs in the morning and sweep thru the place when they hard voices and footsteps on the stairs. They took cover on either side of the stairwell and waited. Our paladin walked unaware to the bottom of the stairs and got smacked pretty hard from both of them. A good fight ensued. Orik got hurt a lot worse then Bruthazmus, had already fallen down once on the grease the sorcerer cast, and was flanked. He threw down his sword, surrendered, and tried to back away, falling in the process. On his turn, Bruthazmus stopped what he was doing, turned on the 'traitor' and proceeded to kill him himself. The party managed to gang up on Bruthazmus before he could get away to the temple, and he died.
Other fun bits..
I put 3 goblin babies in the nursery. As they were babies, I stated they did not radiate evil to our lawful good paladin. He decided that he was going to save them - much to the rest of the parties frustration. One of the babies died due to the touch of a certain priestess of Pharasma ( I don't think she and the Paladin will get along for a while ) but the Paladin hauled the rest (biting, kicking, screaming, clawing) up to the rabbit cages as he felt they were cleaner/nicer then where they were (she had already released the rabbits on the island). I'm not exactly sure what she plans on doing with them.
After clearing out the temple, our rogue/cleric of Desna decides to take out a glass butterfly she purchased at the swallowtail festival, put it on the alter and cast Consecrate. She (and her player) were really frustrated to discover that the butterfly was missing. She is already scheming on revenge of the party member she thinks stole it from her. Won't she be surprised when she finally discovers it on a certain lord's little shrine to her...
Anyway, thanks for the advice from earlier.
|
Interesting Really !
My players got into Thistletop at night. Unfortunately the alarm was raised. They got into in the lair by climbing on the towers.
I decided that all remaining gobs inside headed to the chief's room as my players were now well-known for their "brutalitie"s to goblins.
Talking about that I realise I forgot the couple of goblins and goblin dogs outside. Oh well .... I believe they were on patrol somewhere around thistletop...
Nevertheless it doesn't change much because they ran straight for the stairs to lvl 1.
There they discovered the wives, slapped one of them as a warning and then the paladin took one of the youngster in the cage as a hostage.
Contrary to you, I think they all radiate evil but the younger the lightest the aura.
So the paladin took one of the oldest youngster, who had the greatest evil aura of all, as an hostage.
Yeah I know my paladin is a bit .... tough.
I decided that Orik, Lydie and Bruthazmus were aware of the adventurers and prepared an ambush in the temple.
The Paladin killed the hostage as a warning.
It was almost a TPK while Orik, down to 1 HP but protecting Lydie and on full defense was unhitable while Lydie was using her wand on Magic Missile.... :D
Now I have 1 player down to -2HP, And 3 others around 3/4 HP Max.
We stopped the session here but I think they are not in a good position
Either they rest where they are (around Lamashtu's temple).
IMO the goblins will most probably send scouts to see where the PCs are. But still they are rather frightened of their powers.
Then .... what ?
Ripnugget could either decide to attack the invaders with full strength :most probably a TPK.
Or decide that it's all a long leg business now and let Nualia (the only long leg left) deal with them. His survival and the survival of his tribe being most important.
Now if my players decide to escape to rest somewhere else, they will have a hard way passing past silently a goblin patrol.
What is your opinion ?
Finally I have a question about Nualia from there.
[url]http://pathfinder.wikia.com/wiki/Nualia_Tobyn_(PRPG_conversion) [/url]
I don't have the AP in my hands right now but my questions are. Can she use "Channel negative energy" (2D6) at the same time as she's hitting with her claws ?
Does the "Touch of evil" has a ST ? Can she also use it at the same time she's hitting with her claws ?
.
Finally I am wandering on my paladin's beliefs. His character thinks that all unclean races (i.e not humans) do not deserve much, specialy if they are evil and has no regrets killing children and wives if necessary provided that have an evil taint. He also does not trust much from elves and dwarves and other races.
I am quite open minded but still have a doubt whether this is still in the limits of what a Paladin should/could do, even for the good of most.
What is your opinion on that ? What shall I do with him ?
Thanks a lot for your feedback. I shall play it on 31st of july.
Sounds like your players are having fun with the campaign as well. I would think that after so much time of no sound of intruders, Ripnugget would send groups of goblins out to see what happened. Personally, I'd just find inopportune times for a goblin party to show up, be seen by the party and try to race back up to Ripnugget, like when the party is dealing with something else nasty. I don't know if Ripnugget would take his entire force into the lower levels in mass - and if he did, they wouldn't be very quiet - and the party would here them coming giving them a chance to prepare.
I was of two minds over the aura of the goblin babies. Yes, goblins are evil creatures, but I think the babies are more like animals then anything else. In any case, killing babies of any creature in cold blood doesn't seem to me to be a very heroic act. I'm glad our paladin is keeping some standards (not much - he was the character to break into the glassworks).. I am so sick of Paladins played as 'lawful stupid'. His attitude might be lawful, but he sure sounds like he is drifting away from 'good'. I'd watch him for reoccurring patterns of stuff like this though, it might come back to haunt him in future games.. In the second book, it suggests you start watching your characters for showing signs of the 7 sins, to use against them later. I think the paladins behavior with the goblins & wives might chalk him up some points on the naughty list. Of course, if he gets any worse, he might have some atonement ahead for himself as well.
I wish I had known that wiki was out there with all the conversion information. It would have saved me a bunch of time. As far as your questions go, Nualia cannot Channel Negative Energy & take an attack at the same time as Channel is a standard action. The touch of evil description in the Beta rules doesn't mention a save either, where other touch attacks with affects do. I'd rule there was no save for it. I'd treat it as a touch spell in that she could spend a round gaining the charge, and next round release it with her attack. However, this probably wouldn't be a very good use of her time.
Good luck with your game! Tonight, we continue where we left off and if we have any luck might even finish the first book (unlikely, knowing my group, but we'll see). I can't wait to run them thru the Manor.. Even if my wife does make me sleep on the couch for a few nights afterwards (that whole thing is going to mess with her a bit too much)
|
|
** spoiler omitted **...
Yeah I reread the AP yesterday eve but I saw that Nualia was a bit different from the conversion I gave you.
Still she's going to be a tough B***h....
I also realised that i forgot the yeth hound. What was I on that evening ? Beer and cider most probably ... Hum anyway they'll probably be with Nualia for now....
Anyhow, your idea is good for the sins. For some reasons, killing babies on cold blood doesn't fall into any capital sins ...
Warf ... I will give my Paladin player a first warning of non-communication with his god (Iomedae).
Thanks for the hint on how to play the gobs.... Enjoy !
I went and read the section on Iomedae in the campaign setting.. Her follows can be a bit blood-thirsty, but she embodies honor and chivalry. And you would think a Paladin of her faith would act a bit better.. good luck with that ;)
We continued our adventure last night.. We only play for about 2 hours each week using Fantasy Grounds, but they got farther..
Our Paladin decided that she could run ahead and not let the party rogue keep an eye out for traps. Amazingly, this meant that in the lower level of the dungeon, he walked right down the trapped hallway, assuming the shiny spot on the floor was from another of those creatures they fought at the upper level. He failed reflex save, got caught in the trap, and was critted against by one of the attacks of the trap (x3 damage.. ouch). They finally finished, he jumped out before the pit opened. The rogue then tried to disable the device (rolling a 1). Oh, and when the trap was down, our wizard cast 'Knock' in hopes that would open the trap up. Sadly, the spell description is clear that knock doesn't work on a portcullis, so instead, it opened the two doors at the end of the hall instead. The paladin was already on the other side of the trap, and walked further down the hallway. Nualia sees him, is prepped because she heard the trap go off, and attacks with the yeth hound.
As initiative unfolds, the Rogue jumps over the trapped spot without problem, and starts assisting the Paladin. Our Cleric tries the same thing, rolls a 3 and falls into the trap, making her reflex save - squeezing with the rogue, but trapping them.
We had to stop the game at this point. But right now, we have the Paladin, the Rogue and the Cleric trapped in the hallway with Nualia and the Yeth Hound. The trap is going so the others can't aid them and 2 of them are squeezing trapped between the portcullis and the hound. They are in a tad bit of trouble :)
Anyway, good luck with your game.. Hopefully your party is smarter about traps then ours are.
|
|
I finally got to run this again last night, as schedule conflicts kept us from playing last week. It was a good game.
** spoiler omitted **...
|
|
I went and read the section on Iomedae in the campaign setting.. Her follows can be a bit blood-thirsty, but she embodies honor and chivalry. And you would think a Paladin of her faith would act a bit better.. good luck with that ;)We continued our adventure last night.. We only play for about 2 hours each week using Fantasy Grounds, but they got farther..
** spoiler omitted **...
Oooops Looks like Some characters are going to be in troubles :D.
For trap detections I have a bard, and a scout ... hope they will be a bit clever.
You can't be more crazy than in one of my campaigns the barbarian player grabbing and throwing the frail wizard in the corridor to check for traps.... MOUHAHAHA.
Poor wizard !
You can't be more crazy than in one of my campaigns the barbarian player grabbing and throwing the frail wizard in the corridor to check for traps.... MOUHAHAHA.Poor wizard !
Well, our Paladin did dangle our wizard down the howling hole on a 50ft rope to see what was down there. For some reason, it didn't occur to either of them to tie off the rope somewhere. For some reason the rogue decided to climb down the rope too, in order to help the wizard after they heard the roar. The paladin of course failed the strength check and nobody was able to catch the rope as it slid down the hole with the two characters. I was pretty sure we were going to have a TPK during that ensuing battle as well. Almost did...
So, my players let Gogmurt get off a warning to the keep and ended up in an epic battle inside...but there are still loose ends. Now they've decided to barricade one of the towers and sleep there. See spoiler.
They've got two surviving town guards and Shalelu with them, along with the horse, and are planning on camping in one of the towers. So, what should I have happen? Nualia and the wizard lady, forget her name just now, didn't join the battle. Is Ripnugget likely to just hang around and wait for the PCs to come in the morning? Will he run away? Hole up with Nualia? It's hard to imagine him abandoning Nualia based on his write-up.
Would Lyrae (is that it?) and Nualia respond since all of their meat shields have been taken down? They can't release Malfeshnekor I think, right? That'd be my move if I could. Let M go and assault the tower with everything left...even the goblin wives. Nualia needs the PCs out of the way so she can rebuild her plan to destroy Sandpoint and fuel the Runewell, nyet? Would she abandon her plans for now and try to get revenge on the PCs later on? That might be interesting I guess.
Any thoughts would be appreciated!
M
So, my players let Gogmurt get off a warning to the keep and ended up in an epic battle inside...but there are still loose ends. Now they've decided to barricade one of the towers and sleep there. See spoiler.
M
Your party is in a pretty precarious place, as they have healthy goblins who know they are there on the same level. I wouldn't assume Ripnugget is going to play nice. I would think after an hour or two of no sound of intruders, Ripnugget is going to send out one of his Commandos to check out the keep. When the goblins find an area that is oddly enough blocked, they'll report to Ripnugget (will the party be perceptive enough to notice that attempt to open their door?). I've noticed that one of the favored techniques of the goblins when they can't deal with a threat/problem is to just hammer the door shut. I could definitely see Ripnugget order his commandos to try and seal in the adventurers. I could also see the party, readying spells and weapons for when the goblins break thru - not realizing they are being trapped inside.
I'm not sure if there'd be a good way to do it, but if it was possible, I could see ripnugget sacrificing a watch tower to rid himself of the adventurers.. A nice good fire on the sealed tower might be fun.. Even if it is too damp due to location/etc, the place starting to get smokey/hot might get the adventurers attention.
In any case, after the initial fight, I am guessing the party is pretty depleted. I wouldn't do a full scale ambush with the remaining inhabitants of the keep, but remind them that goblins are tenacious and more then a little crazy and you don't sleep in their keep unless you are sure they are dead :)
Anyway, that is just a few ideas I had off the top of my head. Good luck with whatever you decide to do.
Jonathan
Awesome. I love the "seal them in" tactic. That might be worth some fun.
M
I almost forgot about this thread. I did have the gobbos nail them into the watchtower...then they piled up the bodies of the dead goblins (and Big B) outside the doors and set them on fire. Hey, they're goblins. The party broke through one on the outer walls and camped on Thistletop and the chief, his harem and remaining commandos retreated to the chapel.
Rough battle there, BTW, with the hounds sending the party's tank running in fear and no magical weapons to speak of. The goblins went down pretty quickly but the hounds were tough.
M
I almost forgot about this thread. I did have the gobbos nail them into the watchtower...
I'm thrilled to hear that worked. I love pathfinder goblins :)
Our group just completely finished with Thistletop (M & all). I gotta say, Paladins are a lot more effective with the new version of Smite Evil. There would have been a lot of death without it.
Jonathan