I'll go out on a limb and guess they'll have a rogue.
Seltiel is from Cheliax. He's in.
I think Lem is as well. And bards are better than rogues in urban games anyway.
So that's arcane and a little healing. We need more. I wouldn't be surprised to see either Seelah or Harsk. Or both.
Wait, scratch that. They'll save Harsk for Kingmaker.
So... My list! Seltiel, Lem, Seelah, and Sajan.
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Seltiel is from Cheliax. He's in.
I think Lem is as well. And bards are better than rogues in urban games anyway.
So that's arcane and a little healing. We need more. I wouldn't be surprised to see either Seelah or Harsk. Or both.
Wait, scratch that. They'll save Harsk for Kingmaker.
So... My list! Seltiel, Lem, Seelah, and Sajan.
I'd Guess Similiar
most likely Seltyiel atleast
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I'd personally like to see some NEW Iconics, others that match up to the Prestige Classes and not just Seltiel. The assassin (who's previous beta picture looked like a half orc) or the duelist (probably a LITTLE roguish in levels) which be really cool to see.
Of course I'm not a fan of the "dandy" visual of a duelist (it's my favorite PrC and my guy doesn't dress like a musketeer) but I'd get over it just to see someone new.
The Iconics are there to stay, just like the name Pathfinder, for awhile.
I'm fairly sure James Jacobs has said they will be Seoni, Lem, Seltyiel and Seelah. And the paladin restriction will be removed in the final game.
Creative Director
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Part of the value of the iconics is the same as that of Tony the Tiger or Joe Camel or Bart Simpson. They're branding; you see them, and you know you're looking at Pathfinder stuff. So there's not going to be many new iconics coming along anytime soon.
As for Council of Thieves: the iconics are Lem, Seltyiel, Seelah, and Seoni. And yes, that means there's a paladin in the same party as an evil character. You can do that in PFRPG. (The paladin just has to be on her toes... as does the evil dude...).
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I'd personally like to see some NEW Iconics, others that match up to the Prestige Classes and not just Seltiel.How would you do Prestige Class iconics for a first-level adventure? Remember, all the AP's (thus far) start at level 1.
Seltyiel is an E. Knight so I don't see how it would work any different.
Part of the value of the iconics is the same as that of Tony the Tiger or Joe Camel or Bart Simpson. They're branding; you see them, and you know you're looking at Pathfinder stuff. So there's not going to be many new iconics coming along anytime soon.
As for Council of Thieves: the iconics are Lem, Seltyiel, Seelah, and Seoni. And yes, that means there's a paladin in the same party as an evil character. You can do that in PFRPG. (The paladin just has to be on her toes... as does the evil dude...).
Seoni is the only one that is a real surprise, being that both Seoni and Seltyiel are arcane casters (So is Lem, but that is different). I was expecting more of a striker type like Sajan or Harsk. :)
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Creative Director
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One of these days, I'm going to have an AP with no spellcaster characters at all: Merisiel, Amiri, Sajan, and Valeros—if only to encourage GMs to think outside the box with what a campaign expects of its players.
An all thief party or an all bard party, for example, would actually work REALLY well in Council of Thieves. An all paladin party probably would not.
In any event, the reasons we choose the iconics the way we do is only partially to get a good mix of skills and powers in there; another factor is "who did we use in the previous AP" and another one is "who would make for the coolest combo" and ANOTHER one is "who would fit well with the themes?" In the theme category, Seltyiel and Lem got in because they're from Cheliax. Seelah got in because she's a paladin and I wanted to show off how paladins and evil characters can get along, AND because she worships Iomedae, who has a pretty strong role in Council of Thieves. Seoni got in because she's a sorcerer, which fits well with all the tieflings and weird bloodline stuff that's going on in Council of Thieves.
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In any event, the reasons we choose the iconics the way we do is only partially to get a good mix of skills and powers in there; another factor is "who did we use in the previous AP" and another one is "who would make for the coolest combo" and ANOTHER one is "who would fit well with the themes?"
Sooooo does this mean Lini will be in the next AP?
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One of these days, I'm going to have an AP with no spellcaster characters at all: Merisiel, Amiri, Sajan, and Valeros—if only to encourage GMs to think outside the box with what a campaign expects of its players.
Do it! You know you want to!
Honestly, I just hope Amiri gets into a high-society oriented AP, if only because my favorite art pieces of the Dragon/Dungeon iconics were of the tiefling fighter awkwardly going through scenes such as being fitted for fine clothing or enjoying(read: sleeping through) the opera.
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Creative Director
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Sooooo does this mean Lini will be in the next AP?
In any event, the reasons we choose the iconics the way we do is only partially to get a good mix of skills and powers in there; another factor is "who did we use in the previous AP" and another one is "who would make for the coolest combo" and ANOTHER one is "who would fit well with the themes?"
Anyone who isn't Seltyiel, Seelah, Seoni, or Lem is a possibility for Kingmaker. That does include Lini but doesn't guarantee she'll be in there. (For reasons I'm not ready to reveal, though, I suspect Lini will be in the Kingmaker iconic group, though...)
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One of these days, I'm going to have an AP with no spellcaster characters at all: Merisiel, Amiri, Sajan, and Valeros—if only to encourage GMs to think outside the box with what a campaign expects of its players.Do it! You know you want to!
Honestly, I just hope Amiri gets into a high-society oriented AP, if only because my favorite art pieces of the Dragon/Dungeon iconics were of the tiefling fighter awkwardly going through scenes such as being fitted for fine clothing or enjoying(read: sleeping through) the opera.
I loved the one with the seamstress lifting her tail up and looking at it in disgust! lol
Poor Sajan. He hasn't been seen since CotCT, and he's not even a lock for Kingmaker. Let's hope he at least shows up if/when we go to Vudra or Tian Xia...
Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John.
One of these days, I'm going to have an AP with no spellcaster characters at all: Merisiel, Amiri, Sajan, and Valeros—if only to encourage GMs to think outside the box with what a campaign expects of its players.
I'd love to see the playtest reports from that one (not so much at level 1, but at level 12+).
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Creative Director
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One of these days, I'm going to have an AP with no spellcaster characters at all: Merisiel, Amiri, Sajan, and Valeros—if only to encourage GMs to think outside the box with what a campaign expects of its players.I'd love to see the playtest reports from that one (not so much at level 1, but at level 12+).
A game like that, of course, would only work with a GM who wants his PCs to have fun, not one who wants to punish the PCs for wanting to play a different game than the GM wants.
A game like that, of course, would only work with a GM who wants his PCs to have fun, not one who wants to punish the PCs for wanting to play a different game than the GM wants.One of these days, I'm going to have an AP with no spellcaster characters at all: Merisiel, Amiri, Sajan, and Valeros—if only to encourage GMs to think outside the box with what a campaign expects of its players.I'd love to see the playtest reports from that one (not so much at level 1, but at level 12+).
Absolutely, that's why I'd love to see a playtest/campaign log by you and the other Paizo folks showing how you guys think a high level no-caster party would work.
Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John.
John, George, Paul, & Ringo?
(Or, is that the party of bards that Mr. Jacobs was thinking of?)
Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John.What about Biff?
Or Scott. :)
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Seltyiel is an E. Knight so I don't see how it would work any different.I'd personally like to see some NEW Iconics, others that match up to the Prestige Classes and not just Seltiel.How would you do Prestige Class iconics for a first-level adventure? Remember, all the AP's (thus far) start at level 1.
Resurrecting this thread a bit but ...
This is a good point. If Seltyiel is the one and only (thus far) iconic prestige class (Eldrich Knight), how does he work in a party that would we assume begin at 1st level?
Maybe he starts out as a 1st level fighter and then progresses as a multi class fighter / wizard (or sorcerer - I can't recall which he is) until all the iconics reach a high enough level, at which point Seltyiel makes the big leap into Eldrich Knight?
Without some heavy wink wink nudge nudge, i don't see how else this can work ...
Or Scott. :)Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John.What about Biff?
How about Mickey, Peter, Mike and Davey
Or better yet...Daphne, Velma, Freddy, Shaggy, and Scoobie as animal companaion
Or Gene, Paul, Peter, and Ace
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Part of the value of the iconics is the same as that of Tony the Tiger or Joe Camel or Bart Simpson. They're branding; you see them, and you know you're looking at Pathfinder stuff. So there's not going to be many new iconics coming along anytime soon.
As for Council of Thieves: the iconics are Lem, Seltyiel, Seelah, and Seoni. And yes, that means there's a paladin in the same party as an evil character. You can do that in PFRPG. (The paladin just has to be on her toes... as does the evil dude...).
Any chance that half-orc iconic assassin becomes a recurring villain this AP? Or maybe the duelist or the shadowdancer puts in an appearance?
Stuff
Absolutely, that's why I'd love to see a playtest/campaign log by you and the other Paizo folks showing how you guys think a high level no-caster party would work.I really think that group would get toasted unless they took leadership and got a caster
So... which is the evil Iconic?
So... which is the evil Iconic?Seltyiel, the iconic mothers warn their daughters about.
Damn, I was hoping Lem.
That would make him even more the coolest bard ever.
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So... which is the evil Iconic?Seltyiel, the iconic mothers warn their daughters about.Damn, I was hoping Lem.
That would make him even more the coolest bard ever.
Well, if you apply a medieval counterpart to "ROCK AND ROLL IS THE DEVIL!" to Golarion...
He IS from Cheliax after all!
Wine + Women + Song = Sex + Drugs + Rock n' Roll
How would you do Prestige Class iconics for a first-level adventure? Remember, all the AP's (thus far) start at level 1.Seltyiel is an E. Knight so I don't see how it would work any different.Resurrecting this thread a bit but ...
This is a good point. If Seltyiel is the one and only (thus far) iconic prestige class (Eldrich Knight), how does he work in a party that would we assume begin at 1st level?
Maybe he starts out as a 1st level fighter and then progresses as a multi class fighter / wizard (or sorcerer - I can't recall which he is) until all the iconics reach a high enough level, at which point Seltyiel makes the big leap into Eldrich Knight?
If Seltyiel's advancement stays the same as in SD, he advances as a fighter 1/evoker 5/eldritch knight.
What's the status of the iconic minis? I'm still hoping to be able to get them all before the end of the Mayan calendar!
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Seltyiel is an E. Knight so I don't see how it would work any different.I'd personally like to see some NEW Iconics, others that match up to the Prestige Classes and not just Seltiel.How would you do Prestige Class iconics for a first-level adventure? Remember, all the AP's (thus far) start at level 1.Resurrecting this thread a bit but ...
This is a good point. If Seltyiel is the one and only (thus far) iconic prestige class (Eldrich Knight), how does he work in a party that would we assume begin at 1st level?
Maybe he starts out as a 1st level fighter and then progresses as a multi class fighter / wizard (or sorcerer - I can't recall which he is) until all the iconics reach a high enough level, at which point Seltyiel makes the big leap into Eldrich Knight?
Without some heavy wink wink nudge nudge, i don't see how else this can work ...
He was Fighter 1 in #19, and then Fighter 1/Evoker3 in #20, after which I stopped buying as I'm likely to be playing.
Maybe he starts out as a 1st level fighter and then progresses as a multi class fighter / wizard (or sorcerer - I can't recall which he is) until all the iconics reach a high enough level, at which point Seltyiel makes the big leap into Eldrich Knight?
Without some heavy wink wink nudge nudge, i don't see how else this can work ...
? If this is sarcasm I don't get it ? Seltyiel goes Eldritch Knight the same way any other character does.
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? If this is sarcasm I don't get it ? Seltyiel goes Eldritch Knight the same way any other character does.Maybe he starts out as a 1st level fighter and then progresses as a multi class fighter / wizard (or sorcerer - I can't recall which he is) until all the iconics reach a high enough level, at which point Seltyiel makes the big leap into Eldrich Knight?
Without some heavy wink wink nudge nudge, i don't see how else this can work ...
Nope, no sarcasm at all ... although I probably could have phrased my question a little better :)
My question was this: if the AP starts out at 1st level, then all the iconics would start at 1st level and then advance up until they all hit 15th or so at the end, right?
So, if Seltyiel is to be one of the iconics from the start, and you have to have levels in fighter and then wizard in order to qualify for this prestige class ... how could he be part of the ist level group? That's what I meant by "heavy wink wink nudge nudge".
Does that make more sense?
So, if Seltyiel is to be one of the iconics from the start, and you have to have levels in fighter and then wizard in order to qualify for this prestige class ... how could he be part of the ist level group? That's what I meant by "heavy wink wink nudge nudge".
Does that make more sense?
He's still an iconic, the iconic half-elf, the iconic evil character, and, shortly after 1st level, the iconic multi-class. A bit later, he's the iconic eldritch knight.
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So Council of Thieves is very high arcane, very high charisma (Seoni, Lem, & Seelah).
I thought at least one of Seelah/Lem/Seoni would be in Kingmaker for the charisma, hmm.
Harsk and Lini will be good for frontier lands. Amiri would also work, but Harsk hasn't been seen since CotCT and my players at least seem to find him pretty cool. Ezren likely for some arcane (and building towers to lord over land is very wizardy). Both Fighters and Clerics have a game history of building keeps - though Monks can build monasteries. I don't see Merisiel (enough sneaky with Harsk/Lini, not enough social skills... Urgh... my kidney!)