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I wouldn't want to write this up myself, and I realize it is late for a what if. . ., but maybe you could go with a system that allowed the Cleric/Paladin to allocate dice to certain targets a little more freely, if you think it is overpowered. So rather than id dealing/healing 3d6 (5th) to all, you have a total of say caster level x2 in d6, and no creature can get more than 4d6, but no less than 1d6. So if the tank is more hurt than the wizard, you can heal him a little bit more, although you have to heal the wizard some. You could also choose which undead get a little more of the assualt directed at them, but that means that some will also be taking a lot less.
Quite the idea there Beckett. I agree I wouldn't want to write it up though. I'm good with channel as is myself.
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Thank you. I don't think it would be difficult toi write up, I am just not in a mechanics sort of mood now, and can't really look into the books at work. I also don't have much of a problem and think it is ok. This might work better as a feat, maybe that allows you to take away up to 2 dice from one target and give it to another.
[...]So rather than id dealing/healing 3d6 (5th) to all, you have a total of say caster level x2 in d6, and no creature can get more than 4d6, but no less than 1d6. So if the tank is more hurt than the wizard, you can heal him a little bit more, although you have to heal the wizard some. You could also choose which undead get a little more of the assualt directed at them, but that means that some will also be taking a lot less.
Cool. I think about that.
You have to remember that spells like Cure Light Wounds were created back in the early days of D&D, when people had many fewer hit points and did much less damage. A Cure Light was enough to fully heal most any second level character back in 1e. Now, it'll only half heal many level 1 characters. Many monsters do 100 points of damage in a round to our main tank, who (at level 14) has near 200 hit points. It's only via CMW wands that we ever get anyone fully healed up. Healing has dramatically lagged the rest of the D&D power escalation.
QFT
I've never found that "too much healing" was ever a problem in any game that I've played. If that were the case, why is the first thing most parties do is invest in a wand of cure light wounds? Exactly.
In too many games, our cleric has been 100% tapped out of spells in the first minutes of each new day. And sometimes even then the party is not healed up (definitely not if there is ability damage, which greatly affects the challenge level of future encounters). This is this not very fun for the cleric (not having spells and having to spend them ALL on healing spells), especially if the cleric would rather be focusing his spells on other things (trickery, knowledge, etc).
Also, walking into an epic encounter (even with full health but you're tapped out healing spells) was never a good idea, so you'd often wait around 2 days. My group has always found this aspect of D&D both non-epic and non-heroic. What I'm trying to say is, a little more healing is not going to hurt.
Healing surges was one of the best things that 4E did for the game. Too bad the rest wasn't very good.
I kind of thought the changes to Channel Energy were Paizo's soluton to this problem. If it's not going to be, hopefully it's addressed in some other way.
Anyway, just wanted to put my vote into the mix, even if it's too late (for Pathfinder RPG).
good stuff.
Great post.
For a primer on what he's like, watch THIS vid.
LOL. Thanx for the links.
I've noticed over time that my group has almost entirely done away with the "cure" spells. Generally speaking we only use them if they're on a potion or a wand. There's some good selections for clerics that give the equivalent of fast healing for x amount of time.
With the duration on some of those spells, having fast healing 2 or something is actually a very economical way to heal. 2 minutes would be 240 hp.
It won't get rid of effects that require magical healing, but you can toss a cure light potion at those.
We like the channel energy option too, but we haven't done much with it yet. Our only cleric so far has been doing his best to resurrect CoDzilla... =/
I've noticed over time that my group has almost entirely done away with the "cure" spells. Generally speaking we only use them if they're on a potion or a wand. There's some good selections for clerics that give the equivalent of fast healing for x amount of time.
With the duration on some of those spells, having fast healing 2 or something is actually a very economical way to heal. 2 minutes would be 240 hp.
It won't get rid of effects that require magical healing, but you can toss a cure light potion at those.
We like the channel energy option too, but we haven't done much with it yet. Our only cleric so far has been doing his best to resurrect CoDzilla... =/
Which spells grant fast healing? I don't use splatbooks. Seeing how this spell works in practice is probably why.
Also, fast healing 2 for 2 minutes gives only 40 hit points. 2 minutes = 20 rounds.
It's the Vigor line of spells. The smallest one gives 15 HP maximum over 15 rounds, while later ones give more per round for more rounds, generally it ends up being about a 25% increase over the cure spells at each level, but it's spread out over more time, so it's not generally as useful for emergency healing (like during combat).
Last I heard extend works, empower does nothing, persistent is just cheese they don't want to mess with... aka "4th is out why are you not buying it?"
Also, fast healing 2 for 2 minutes gives only 40 hit points. 2 minutes = 20 rounds.
Geez, my math gets bad when I'm out of it. Or maybe I just tacked a 2 on the front, I dunno. My bad.
Anyway, yeah it's the vigor spells I was thinking of. They're not exactly game breaking as they can really only be used effectively out of combat:
"I heal 3, I'm stabbed in the neck for 24. Great round."
Trust me on that part, I've had some heated arguments about why my fighter doesn't like vigor for combat healing.
They do work out better than cure in the long term. A 14th level cleric can cast an extended vigorous circle for - fast healing 3 over 48 rounds? That's, what, 144 hp of healing for up to 7 targets? (Double check my math! ;P)
So pretty much a one-cast healing for most of the party maybe. It's a 7th level spell with extend though.
As for source, I'm not sure where vigor first turned up. It feels druid-y to me. It's in the Spell Compendium though, which was supposed to be the final word on all WoTC spells at the date of its publication.
Last I heard extend works, empower does nothing, persistent is just cheese they don't want to mess with... aka "4th is out why are you not buying it?"
Yeah, empower only affects variable numerics. The healing granted by vigor spells isn't variable, so nada. Technically I believe you could apply persistent, but the only effective way to do it would be divine metamagic. And despite my iron-clad defense of splats, I occasionally want to smack people that start building with divine metamagic in mind.
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It would be neat if the Close Wounds spell were used as an inspiration for Channel Energy, instead of Mass Cure Light Wounds.
Every round (so long as he has channel energy uses left), a Cleric or Paladin could attack, cast another spell, whatever, and, as a free action, pick one ally in 30 ft. to get a burst of healing. Neither would expend actions to use channel energy, but the overall healing (being single target) would be seriously reduced.
Perhaps this could be presented as a Feat option for a Channeler, allowing to expend a Channel Energy use to heal (or harm) only a single target within 30 ft., but as a free action? (Or even as a move action, although that might not be worth a Feat, given how much it reduces the power of the Channel Energy use.)
Some sort of empower or maximize channeling ability would also be nice, perhaps requiring the Cleric to spend extra time (full round action to Empower, full minute to Maximize?).
So, . . . when can we expect that to happen? I could have sworn that I heard it was up, but I didn't see it.I know the answer to this question, but I don't want to give anything away before the cleric preview goes up.
This Wednesday.
I'm not fond of the vigor spells, they seem like cheats to me really. Sure, cures are "faster", but who uses cure light for combat healing after 5th-8th level? It gets used, particularly in wands, out of combat, where speed doesn't matter at all.
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I could see druids getting a vigor-type line of healing though. Particularly if the spells only work on wounds received *during* the spell duration (c.f. Ring of Regeneration).
So, . . . when can we expect that to happen? I could have sworn that I heard it was up, but I didn't see it.I know the answer to this question, but I don't want to give anything away before the cleric preview goes up.
From the Preview 4 weblog entry:
"That covers the ranger. Come back next week and enter the domains of Kyra, the iconic cleric."
Our limited experience playing PRPG falls right in line with this too.
I have to second this one... my players have been thrilled about not having to "waste" half their spell slots to healing (the party includes a cleric and a paladin) and we all feel this is one of the best additions to the game and not "overpowered" at all.I agree that the version in the Beta is very powerful.It is?
I don't like the way this is going...
Ya know, I have faith in Jason and the folks at Paizo, but I kind of don't like this either ...
I have found that the Cleric's energy channel / healing burst is not at ALL over powered but in fact a fantastic addition to the game. I REALLY hope it is not diminished in any significant way.
Eric or Jason, please reassure us there are no big changes to this that reduce this ability.
Please ...
You know what might be good? A reserve feat.
As long as you have a cure spell/channel positive energy/whatever available, you can cure Xd6 on a single target within 30 ft.
You know what might be good? A reserve feat.
As long as you have a cure spell/channel positive energy/whatever available, you can cure Xd6 on a single target within 30 ft.
I like that idea.
You know what might be good? A reserve feat.
As long as you have a cure spell/channel positive energy/whatever available, you can cure Xd6 on a single target within 30 ft.
There's one like that. It's limited to healing you until you're half full.
There's one like that. It's limited to healing you until you're half full.You know what might be good? A reserve feat.
As long as you have a cure spell/channel positive energy/whatever available, you can cure Xd6 on a single target within 30 ft.
I thought there might be, but I was lazy and had a meeting.
There's one like that. It's limited to healing you until you're half full.You know what might be good? A reserve feat.
As long as you have a cure spell/channel positive energy/whatever available, you can cure Xd6 on a single target within 30 ft.
However it's not ranged.
So, . . . when can we expect that to happen? I could have sworn that I heard it was up, but I didn't see it.I know the answer to this question, but I don't want to give anything away before the cleric preview goes up.
From the Preview 4 weblog entry:
"That covers the ranger. Come back next week and enter the domains of Kyra, the iconic cleric."
Waiting for the cleric, Waiting for the Cleric, Waiting for the Cleric...
cleric is up as you now know and it changed. But I soooooooooo like the changes
cleric is up as you now know and it changed. But I soooooooooo like the changes
Where??!!
In the blog. channels there but changed. I like the changes
Here.cleric is up as you now know and it changed. But I soooooooooo like the changesWhere??!!
Thanks and WOW!
Those are some pretty major changes!!!
I wonder what other major changes happen from beta?!?