Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Preview #3


Lost Omens Campaign Setting General Discussion

Sczarni

...Any chance you can post the stats on her Familiar?

Thanks!


Spiffy Jim wrote:

...Any chance you can post the stats on her Familiar?

Thanks!

You'll have better luck here- Sorcerous Blog Preview

Contributor

Spiffy Jim wrote:

...Any chance you can post the stats on her Familiar?

Thanks!

Erhem! Seoni's familiar has a name, Jason. It's Dragon. And he's not a lizard, hes a blue-tailed skink with the same stats as a lizard.

Sheeesh. Such a racist... against familiars... familiarist... or something.


Pathfinder Maps, Pathfinder Accessories, Starfinder Society Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber
F. Wesley Schneider wrote:
Spiffy Jim wrote:

...Any chance you can post the stats on her Familiar?

Thanks!

Erhem! Seoni's familiar has a name, Jason. It's Dragon. And he's not a lizard, hes a blue-tailed skink with the same stats as a lizard.

Sheeesh. Such a racist... against familiars... familiarist... or something.

Wow ... Oo ... Technicolor® lizard ...

--
So, where did I put this blasted key?

Dark Archive

F. Wesley Schneider wrote:
Spiffy Jim wrote:

...Any chance you can post the stats on her Familiar?

Thanks!

Erhem! Seoni's familiar has a name, Jason. It's Dragon. And he's not a lizard, hes a blue-tailed skink with the same stats as a lizard.

Sheeesh. Such a racist... against familiars... familiarist... or something.

That is one blue tailed lizard.

Contributor

Yeah! I know, right?!

Thank you Mr. Bulmahn, thank you for transporting me to the realm of knights and dragons with the verisimilitude of your prose.

Lizard-Hating Jerk Hat.


F. Wesley Schneider wrote:
Lizard-Hating Jerk Hat.

Jerk Hat? Win!

Paizo Employee Director of Games

Its a very nice Jerk Hat...

Your right Wes.. we should make up names for everything...

Lizard too boring.. here is a blue tailed skink
Boots too dull.. try on a pair of Foeskin Feet Flappers
Too cliche to carry a longsword.. wield this Doublebladed Razor Staff

Lets make everything more fantasy.. that way we can get lost in its wonders!

:-P

Jason

Contributor

Here here!

Contributor

Um, let's never use the word "foeskin" again, okay guys?


Very solid preview. Especially liked the bit about Evocation spells being bumped up in power by adding additional effects.
Oh, and close second favorite of mine is that impossibly clinging dress. I guess it should count as an automatic Hypnotic Pattern gaze attack.

Regards,
Ruemere

PS. Santa Seoni for those who missed the link.


James Sutter wrote:
Um, let's never use the word "foeskin" again, okay guys?

Seconded.

*shiver*


James Sutter wrote:
Um, let's never use the word "foeskin" again, okay guys?

Concerned about flappy foeskin?

Jason Bulmahn wrote:
wield this Doublebladed Razor Staff

Yes, I will! That should be a help with shaving certain problem regions.

Paizo Employee Creative Director

Blue Tailed Skinks are awesome.

Paizo Employee Director of Games

James Jacobs wrote:
Blue Tailed Skinks are awesome.

Agreed.. but I left that out just for simplicities sake... no slight to the cute little guys was intended.

Jason

Sczarni

James Sutter wrote:
Um, let's never use the word "foeskin" again, okay guys?

Yeah a knee-jerk reaction reaction to that too. Then i was "oh FOESKIN"


Jason Bulmahn wrote:


Agreed.. but I left that out just for simplicities sake

I WILL NEVER BUY FROM PAIZO AGAIN!

Paizo Employee Director of Games

KaeYoss wrote:
Jason Bulmahn wrote:


Agreed.. but I left that out just for simplicities sake
I WILL NEVER BUY FROM PAIZO AGAIN!

Hooray!!!

:-P

Jason

The Exchange RPG Superstar 2009 Top 8

Hmmm ... I notice her bloodline is listed under special qualities.

I seem to remember a certain RPG Superstar contestant getting flack for doing that.

;-D

RPG Superstar 2009 Top 8

Tarren Dei wrote:

Hmmm ... I notice her bloodline is listed under special qualities.

I seem to remember a certain RPG Superstar contestant getting flack for doing that.

;-D

Could be worse... I mean no one liked Van Gough's work until after he died!

Liberty's Edge

Jason Bulmahn wrote:


Lets make everything more fantasy.. that way we can get lost in its wonders!

I agree with that sentence entirely, unless it's meant to be sarcastic, in which case, I agree with that sentence entirely.


James Sutter wrote:
Um, let's never use the word "foeskin" again, okay guys?

Killjoy. I want a foeskin-centered AP.


<accent>
Man, Them there's some snazzy foeskin boots! I gonna git me a pair of them foeskin boots! In red too, might even git me a foeskin belt and hat while I'm at it....
</accent>

Sczarni

hallucitor wrote:

<accent>

Man, Them there's some snazzy foeskin boots! I gonna git me a pair of them foeskin boots! In red too, might even git me a foeskin belt and hat while I'm at it....
</accent>

I would say something about a Foeskin ski-mask.... *shiver* Eeww

The Exchange RPG Superstar 2009 Top 8

Spiffy Jim wrote:
hallucitor wrote:

<accent>

Man, Them there's some snazzy foeskin boots! I gonna git me a pair of them foeskin boots! In red too, might even git me a foeskin belt and hat while I'm at it....
</accent>
I would say something about a Foeskin ski-mask.... *shiver* Eeww

OH! Foeskin ... for a minute I thought you wrote ... *reads up thread*. Oh. It's been done. NVM.

RPG Superstar 2009 Top 16, 2012 Top 32

hallucitor wrote:
Them there's some snazzy foeskin boots!

He couldn't have had foeskin... He's Jewish! *badum-ching*

Dark Archive

Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber

Wow this forum thread really took a major left turn. Who would have thought a discussion about Seoni would end up about "foeskin" boots and footwear.


Spiffy Jim wrote:
hallucitor wrote:

<accent>

Man, Them there's some snazzy foeskin boots! I gonna git me a pair of them foeskin boots! In red too, might even git me a foeskin belt and hat while I'm at it....
</accent>
I would say something about a Foeskin ski-mask.... *shiver* Eeww

I see you know about the Capuchin Monk.


Epic Meepo wrote:
hallucitor wrote:
Them there's some snazzy foeskin boots!
He couldn't have had foeskin... He's Jewish! *badum-ching*

Are we related?

Sovereign Court RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32, 2010 Top 8

Jason Bulmahn wrote:

Its a very nice Jerk Hat...

Your right Wes.. we should make up names for everything...

Lizard too boring.. here is a blue tailed skink
Boots too dull.. try on a pair of Foeskin Feet Flappers
Too cliche to carry a longsword.. wield this Doublebladed Razor Staff

Lets make everything more fantasy.. that way we can get lost in its wonders!

:-P

Jason

Should we include the Life Knife and the Risen Mitten?

Dark Archive

Dark_Mistress wrote:
Wow this forum thread really took a major left turn. Who would have thought a discussion about Seoni would end up about "foeskin" boots and footwear.

We can blame Mr. B for that...

Sovereign Court

Honestly I'm curious about her familiar too, when the arcane bond was introduced people realized that the familiar was a rediculously subpar choice for spellcasters. The only real reason for a caster to take a familiar over an item is for roleplay reasons. I know a lot of people think roleplay reasons is perfectly apt, but I don't think it's right for a player to be mechanically weaker for having made a roleplaying choice and so am curious to see if familiars have been tweaked any.


There is an inherent problem with discussing a familiar.

Some believe spellcasters having familiars is broken (in the too good category) and others believe that familiars are nothing but a liability to the spellcaster.

So is item bonding better or worse than a familiar? Depends on the group.

Liberty's Edge

Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Charter Superscriber; Pathfinder Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber
Jason Bulmahn wrote:
James Jacobs wrote:
Blue Tailed Skinks are awesome.
Agreed.. but I left that out just for simplicities sake... no slight to the cute little guys was intended.

You call it simplicity, I call it you've had more important things that last two years on your mind then to remember what the subspecies and name of Seoni's familiar was. :)

Sovereign Court

Disenchanter wrote:

There is an inherent problem with discussing a familiar.

Some believe spellcasters having familiars is broken (in the too good category) and others believe that familiars are nothing but a liability to the spellcaster.

So is item bonding better or worse than a familiar? Depends on the group.

there are people who think the familiar is broken, really? I have never in my 6 years of gaming met someone who thought that. That's not doubting you, I'm just really surprised to learn that there was anyone who thought the familiar was too powerful. I can see the argument that the wizard was too powerful, and that it was just an unneeded extra, but not that the familiar itself was in any way powerful.

Sovereign Court RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32, 2010 Top 8

lastknightleft wrote:
Disenchanter wrote:

There is an inherent problem with discussing a familiar.

Some believe spellcasters having familiars is broken (in the too good category) and others believe that familiars are nothing but a liability to the spellcaster.

So is item bonding better or worse than a familiar? Depends on the group.

there are people who think the familiar is broken, really? I have never in my 6 years of gaming met someone who thought that. That's not doubting you, I'm just really surprised to learn that there was anyone who thought the familiar was too powerful. I can see the argument that the wizard was too powerful, and that it was just an unneeded extra, but not that the familiar itself was in any way powerful.

I found it frightenly useful with the battle sorcerer. It had as many HP as a wizard, the battle sorcerer's BAB, and with command thought items, or a decent rank in use magic device, could really add to the economy of actions a sorcerer needed. Familiars with scent are useful too.

Mage Armor + Shield + tiny size makes it hard to hit, even at low levels it can aid another and has enough HP to survive a hit or 3.

RPG Superstar 2009 Top 16, 2012 Top 32

Matthew Morris wrote:
[W]ith command thought items, or a decent rank in use magic device, [it] could really add to the economy of actions a sorcerer needed.

Also, raven familiars have the ability to speak, and can therefore activate command word items.

UMD + cure wand + raven familiar = extra healing every round

Even if you aren't into min-maxing your economy of actions, a raven familiar is extremely useful. If you get captured, for example, your raven can fly away and relay your whereabouts to your allies.

Sovereign Court RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32, 2010 Top 8

Epic Meepo wrote:
Matthew Morris wrote:
[W]ith command thought items, or a decent rank in use magic device, [it] could really add to the economy of actions a sorcerer needed.

Also, raven familiars have the ability to speak, and can therefore activate command word items.

UMD + cure wand + raven familiar = extra healing every round

Even if you aren't into min-maxing your economy of actions, a raven familiar is extremely useful. If you get captured, for example, your raven can fly away and relay your whereabouts to your allies.

"What? What's that boy? Timmy's down the well?"

"No you $#!+, he's held prisoner. Stop being funny and help!"


I think in the Beta, Familiars were probably better than the Bonded Item for Sorcerors. +1 spontaneous spell/day from spells known is much less impressive an advantage for Sorcerors compared to Wizards, where the ability to spontaneously cast 1x/day bypasses their core "weakness" (preparing) while taking advantage of the corollary strength (large # of spells known) - after all, that ONE encounter where having the perfect spell you couldn't have known to prepare is what really makes spontaneous casting valuable, not spontaneously casting EVERY spell (haste, mage armor, etc).

Hopefully Bonded Item is toned down to make it not such an amazing power in the hands of Wizards.


Quandary wrote:
I think in the Beta, Familiars were probably better than the Bonded Item for Sorcerors.

It could be handy to have the ability to enchant an item without needing to take the crafting feat, though.


lastknightleft wrote:
there are people who think the familiar is broken, really?

Yeah. There are. I'm not saying I agree, in fact I fall into the camp that familiars are not much more than a liability.

But even on these forums there have been at least three people post the sentiment that familiars in general are broken in the too good way. I can't point you to them, because like (apparently) everyone else I ignored them.


hogarth wrote:
Quandary wrote:
I think in the Beta, Familiars were probably better than the Bonded Item for Sorcerors.
It could be handy to have the ability to enchant an item without needing to take the crafting feat, though.

True, and that by itself (or with minor skill bonus equivalent to Familiar) would be alot more balanced IMHO. It still seems most valuable to Wizards because their spells-known aren't limited unlike Sorcerors, whose spell repertoire will actually be dictated by whatever they needed to learn for their crafting, until they gain enough caster levels to re-learn those spells.


Quandary wrote:

I think in the Beta, Familiars were probably better than the Bonded Item for Sorcerors. +1 spontaneous spell/day from spells known is much less impressive an advantage for Sorcerors compared to Wizards, where the ability to spontaneously cast 1x/day bypasses their core "weakness" (preparing) while taking advantage of the corollary strength (large # of spells known) - after all, that ONE encounter where having the perfect spell you couldn't have known to prepare is what really makes spontaneous casting valuable, not spontaneously casting EVERY spell (haste, mage armor, etc).

Hopefully Bonded Item is toned down to make it not such an amazing power in the hands of Wizards.

Actually bonded item lets you recast an already cast spell. So wizard are still limited in their spell choice.

Liberty's Edge

Pathfinder Pathfinder Accessories Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber
vagrant-poet wrote:
Quandary wrote:

I think in the Beta, Familiars were probably better than the Bonded Item for Sorcerors. +1 spontaneous spell/day from spells known is much less impressive an advantage for Sorcerors compared to Wizards, where the ability to spontaneously cast 1x/day bypasses their core "weakness" (preparing) while taking advantage of the corollary strength (large # of spells known) - after all, that ONE encounter where having the perfect spell you couldn't have known to prepare is what really makes spontaneous casting valuable, not spontaneously casting EVERY spell (haste, mage armor, etc).

Hopefully Bonded Item is toned down to make it not such an amazing power in the hands of Wizards.

Actually bonded item lets you recast an already cast spell. So wizard are still limited in their spell choice.

Actually, it doesn't unless it's been changed since the Beta and I missed it.

Beta wrote:
A bonded object can be used once per day to cast any one spell the wizard knows and can cast, just as if the wizard had cast it. This spell cannot be modified by metamagic feats or other abilities. The bonded object cannot be used to cast spells from the wizard's prohibited schools.

Unless you're taking 'can cast' to mean 'has prepared', which seems an odd way of doing it as they would have said 'has prepared' if they meant that,it means the Wizard becomes a sorcerer with dozens of spells once per day. At least until you steal his bonded object (Which fights back a lot less than a familiar when you grab it, I've found).

Sovereign Court

Paul Watson wrote:
vagrant-poet wrote:
Quandary wrote:

I think in the Beta, Familiars were probably better than the Bonded Item for Sorcerors. +1 spontaneous spell/day from spells known is much less impressive an advantage for Sorcerors compared to Wizards, where the ability to spontaneously cast 1x/day bypasses their core "weakness" (preparing) while taking advantage of the corollary strength (large # of spells known) - after all, that ONE encounter where having the perfect spell you couldn't have known to prepare is what really makes spontaneous casting valuable, not spontaneously casting EVERY spell (haste, mage armor, etc).

Hopefully Bonded Item is toned down to make it not such an amazing power in the hands of Wizards.

Actually bonded item lets you recast an already cast spell. So wizard are still limited in their spell choice.

Actually, it doesn't unless it's been changed since the Beta and I missed it.

Beta wrote:
A bonded object can be used once per day to cast any one spell the wizard knows and can cast, just as if the wizard had cast it. This spell cannot be modified by metamagic feats or other abilities. The bonded object cannot be used to cast spells from the wizard's prohibited schools.
Unless you're taking 'can cast' to mean 'has prepared', which seems an odd way of doing it as they would have said 'has prepared' if they meant that,it means the Wizard becomes a sorcerer with dozens of spells once per day. At least until you steal his bonded object (Which fights back a lot less than a familiar when you grab it, I've found).

Yeah I'm with paul on this one.

As an aside, I have a sorcerer who took arcane bond item, I told him if he gets himself a spellbook, paying the full cost to put spells in it, (unlike the wizard who gets two free every level and all 0 levels) then he could use his arcane bond to cast spells out of the book that he doesn't know. So far he hasn't had time to take advantage of it, but since he just aquired an enemy spellbook, I think he might start. I'm doing it for the reason the previous poster stated that for a sorcerer it's kinda weak amounting to an extra spell slot in the day. without crushing the wizards versatility, I'm test driving it out on this sorcerer, we'll see how it plays.

If familiars aren't improved it's not a biggie, I've already got a great boosted familiar entry that I worked with guys with back in the design forums I'll just houserule in.

Sczarni

I'd like to see some more versatility in the familiar build, however. Using familiars as shoulder cannons is fine, but I'd like to be able to use the "deliver touch spells" aspect and not be afraid Fluffy will get cleaved asunder.

It also sounds like GM's didn't question the logistics of familiars UMDing. "How does a 2 oz bird manipulate a 2 pound object again?" Or didn't want to argue the point in any case.


Spiffy Jim wrote:
"How does a 2 oz bird manipulate a 2 pound object again?"

Obviously, he grips it by the husk.

---

On another note, I would like to extend my appreciation for the difference in Dispel Magic now. It's a nifty, still very useful-but-not-so-broken change to the spell, that I enjoy.

Liberty's Edge

lastknightleft wrote:
there are people who think the familiar is broken, really? I have never in my 6 years of gaming met someone who thought that. That's not doubting you, I'm just really surprised to learn that there was anyone who thought the familiar was too powerful. I can see the argument that the wizard was too powerful, and that it was just an unneeded extra, but not that the familiar itself was in any way powerful.

I think part of the discrepancy comes from the fact that a lot of people, even those playing spellcasters, do not really read the rules. Thus they tend to forget about all the wondrous things their familiar can do and just write down the bonus it gives them.

For example, they forget what an incredible boost to skill checks the familiar is, as it is allowed its own check and does posses the same skills as its owner. And it can use the Aid Another action for boosting other characters' skills checks.


The black raven wrote:
lastknightleft wrote:
there are people who think the familiar is broken, really? I have never in my 6 years of gaming met someone who thought that. That's not doubting you, I'm just really surprised to learn that there was anyone who thought the familiar was too powerful. I can see the argument that the wizard was too powerful, and that it was just an unneeded extra, but not that the familiar itself was in any way powerful.

I think part of the discrepancy comes from the fact that a lot of people, even those playing spellcasters, do not really read the rules. Thus they tend to forget about all the wondrous things their familiar can do and just write down the bonus it gives them.

For example, they forget what an incredible boost to skill checks the familiar is, as it is allowed its own check and does posses the same skills as its owner. And it can use the Aid Another action for boosting other characters' skills checks.

....also.


Pathfinder Maps, Pathfinder Accessories, Starfinder Society Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber
toyrobots wrote:
The black raven wrote:
lastknightleft wrote:
there are people who think the familiar is broken, really? I have never in my 6 years of gaming met someone who thought that. That's not doubting you, I'm just really surprised to learn that there was anyone who thought the familiar was too powerful. I can see the argument that the wizard was too powerful, and that it was just an unneeded extra, but not that the familiar itself was in any way powerful.

I think part of the discrepancy comes from the fact that a lot of people, even those playing spellcasters, do not really read the rules. Thus they tend to forget about all the wondrous things their familiar can do and just write down the bonus it gives them.

For example, they forget what an incredible boost to skill checks the familiar is, as it is allowed its own check and does posses the same skills as its owner. And it can use the Aid Another action for boosting other characters' skills checks.

....also.

Wooohooo ... awesome!

--
So, where did I put this blasted key?

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