Copyright and Games Systems


General Discussion (Prerelease)


The biggest issue with copyright in gaming systems it that it restricts development options with respect to monsters, races and sub-types that are easily capable of being transferred from game setting to game setting. WotC for example has 'copyright', or some form of ownership over' FR' monsters. Now FR isn't great, but its monsters are creative, interesting and well worth a look. Question is--why on earth would you stop other people from using this property so long as they let you say, put a nice "FR" sticker somewhere on the cover? Or the same for "Golarion", "White Wolf", etc etc. Whether its game mechanics or thematic description, this allows for (a) honesty, so you don't need to rename your "illithid" into "squids" (b) promotes the other game system, whether it be FR, Golarion, or what have you.

Currently, WotC and Pathfinder have 'game system licences.' Why not introduce 'campaign system' licences, with regards to either (a) flavour, history, text, etc or (b) game mechanics?

One possible objection I can see to a game licence with respect to 'flavour' or the setting in general is that it creates inconsistency. However, this is something that can be worked out either by making it clear that the publisher isn't writing canon, or by prior agreement with Wotc/Pathfinder/White Wolf, etc.

Sovereign Court

Zeevico wrote:
The biggest issue with copyright in gaming systems it that it restricts development options with respect to monsters, races and sub-types that are easily capable of being transferred from game setting to game setting. WotC for example has 'copyright', or some form of ownership over' FR' monsters.

While we're at it why don't we do away with trademarks.. oh and make sure that artists aren't allowed to copyright their work.

What you are suggesting is that a creator not get compensated for his work. If you create something that others want to use, they are legally allowed to enter into a licensing agreement if they want to.

Its unfortunate that WotC has made quite a bit of limitations on what they will and won't license but it is well within their right.

Trent


WotC can licence its products as it wants, but through this method, it would at least gain free advertising for its work. It's the same principle as OGL: everyone has to go back to get the core books anyhow, so what does WotC lose?

Example Scenario 1: A 3rd party developer mentions Elminster or Halaster having a tea party with Mystra, and creates an adventure out of it. The adventure is his own writing and work, not FR's.

Example Scenario 2: Golarion, or some other 3rd party developer introduces some FR monster into its game, stat blocks and all. It puts up a nice big sticker next to the stat block, or on the book cover, for its trouble.

What distinguishes these 'campaign setting' licence scenarios from the 3.5 OGL licence today?


Pathfinder Starfinder Society Subscriber
Zeevico wrote:

So what does WotC lose?

Example Scenario 1: A 3rd party developer mentions Elminster or Halaster having a tea party with Mystra, and creates an adventure out of it. The adventure is his own writing and work, not FR's.

Ex, I create a scenario where Elminster is a child molester.

Companies putting their iconic characters/monsters out there for anyone to use compromises the integrity of their business. In it's simplest form, it's like gossip. You tell somebody, they tell someone else, eventually it turns into something that you never thought it would be. Case in point, Lucas Films and the Star Wars line. They have very tight control over what is said so as not to have something that doesn't fit their grand scheme.

Plus, if you had an idea that makes your product different from anyone else, wouldn't you want credit and the revenue from it?

Zeevico wrote:


Example Scenario 2: Golarion, or some other 3rd party developer introduces some FR monster into its game, stat blocks and all. It puts up a nice big sticker next to the stat block, or on the book cover, for its trouble.

Ex, I walk into a store and see a Pathfinder module with a FR logo on it. I hate FR and won't buy it. It's the same reason why mom and pop stores stopped carrying d20 logos. There was a lot of bad stuff out there and people lost money because they only went to the official source.

While I understand what you want to see, it's never going to happen.

Sovereign Court

Zeevico wrote:
WotC can licence its products as it wants, but through this method, it would at least gain free advertising for its work. It's the same principle as OGL: everyone has to go back to get the core books anyhow, so what does WotC lose?

They lose copyright by blurring the line of what is "fair use" and "copyrighted material". A 3rd party developer challenges WOTC's copyright of FR material and a judge rules that it all is now fair use.

Zeevico wrote:
Example Scenario 1: A 3rd party developer mentions Elminster or Halaster having a tea party with Mystra,

So you want it to be okay that another author writes a derivitive piece on another author's work without paying some sort of licensing fee..

Keep in mind that a lot of characters have been developed by R.A. Salvatore, Ed Greenwood, Troy Denning, etc.

Try asking J.K Rowling, or Stephen King if they'd like that.

While I appreciate what you would like, imagine if someone made a product based upon something you created and suddenly you weren't getting paid royalties anymore because people bought the other book instead of yours.

Trent

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