Pugwampis affected by their own bad luck?

[crmanriq]

In reading the stats for the pugwampis in AP 19, I'm trying to figure out if they are affected by their own zone of unluck.

"Unluck (Su) A pugwampi radiates an aura of unluck to a radius
of 20 feet. A creature in this area must roll 2d20 whenever a
situation calls for a d20 roll (such as an attack roll, a skill check,
or a saving throw) and must use the lowest of the two results
generated. This is a mind-affecting effect that does not work
on animals, other gremlins, and gnolls. Any character that
gains any sort of luck bonus (such as that granted by a luckstone
or divine favor) is immune to the pugwampi unluck aura."

Since they are "a creature" and they are not "other gremlins", it would seem that they should be affected by their own unluck.

Opinions?

[Gorbacz]

duh - Gremlin, Pugwampi ?

[Paris Crenshaw]

crmanriq wrote:

Since they are "a creature" and they are not "other gremlins", it would seem that they should be affected by their own unluck.

Opinions?

Actually, I would say that pugwampis are "other gremlins".

I interpret that line to mean that their aura of unluck does not affect any of the various species of gremlins (jinkin, pugwampi, vexgit or any new ones that the Paizonians come up with in the future).

[Matthew Morris]

I see what you're saying. Pugawampi = gremlin, but not 'other gremlin'

The fluff doesn't help
"Notoriously unlucky, these gremlins take disproportionate amounts of enjoyment from the accidents and missteps of other creatures, often going to great lengths to manufacture the perfect deadfalls or stumbling blocks. They then wait nearby, both to laugh at inevitable
mishaps and to make sure their personal unluckiness passes off to their victims."

I'd almost be tempted to say 'yes' for the comedic value, but I'll default to a creature not being afffected by its own aura.

[Paris Crenshaw]

You know...I like that interpretation. Perhaps the idea is that a pugwampi is subject to its own aura of unluck, but not to the aura of other pugwampis. Similarly, other types of gremlins are immune to this aura as well.

Although, this could get rather messy at the gaming table, since pugwampis seem to like to form very large groups. Lots of 2d20s flying around if an encounter comes down to dice rolls.

[Windjammer]

Matthew Morris wrote:

I'd almost be tempted to say 'yes' for the comedic value, but I'll default to a creature not being afffected by its own aura.

Of course they aren't. Read up on how Erik describes the main combat encounter featuring Pugwampis

Spoiler:

the two-storey temple combat which Erik specifically recommends to run on a battlemap

and you'll see him saying, for instance, how that fight is much harder for the PC given the Pugwampis' aura. If the aura cut both ways, this remark would be completely off.

On comedy value I agree - check out the Pugwampi's first appearance in the module.

Spoiler:

The thing shrieks and impales itself on a cactus.

Priceless.

[crmanriq]

Matthew Morris wrote:

I see what you're saying. Pugawampi = gremlin, but not 'other gremlin'

The fluff doesn't help
"Notoriously unlucky, these gremlins take disproportionate amounts of enjoyment from the accidents and missteps of other creatures, often going to great lengths to manufacture the perfect deadfalls or stumbling blocks. They then wait nearby, both to laugh at inevitable
mishaps and to make sure their personal unluckiness passes off to their victims."

I'd almost be tempted to say 'yes' for the comedic value, but I'll default to a creature not being afffected by its own aura.

The problem that I have is that the flavor describes them as unlucky. If the aura does not affect them, then in what way are they unlucky?

I'd be a lot happier if the text was more explicit. It could have simply said that "gremlins are not affected by this aura", which would have meant pugwampis and "other gremlins". If you read them as being affected, then "other gremlins" could mean either "other species" or "all other gremlins", but that distinction doesn't matter since the pugwampi would be affected by its own aura, so it wouldn't matter if it wasn't affected by another pugwampis aura.

[crmanriq]

Windjammer wrote:

Matthew Morris wrote:

I'd almost be tempted to say 'yes' for the comedic value, but I'll default to a creature not being afffected by its own aura.

Of course they aren't. Read up on how Erik describes the main combat encounter featuring Pugwampis

** spoiler omitted **
and you'll see him saying, for instance, how that fight is much harder for the PC given the Pugwampis' aura. If the aura cut both ways, this remark would be completely off.

On comedy value I agree - check out the Pugwampi's first appearance in the module. ** spoiler omitted ** Priceless.

Still it's indirect evidence. You are inferring that they are immune to their own aura by what Erik doesn't say.

Something definitive would help. I'll be happy to run it either way, but it does affect the difficulty of the fight if it's a one way street, and it still leaves open the question of how are they unlucky.

[Krensky]

I'd suggest being simple here.

Mechanically, only track the unluck against the players (and whatever other things there are around). Then just describe the pugwumpi's as being comically unlucky. From a certain meta-game viewpoint, every pugwumpi the players encounter is incredibly unlucky, quite possibly terminally so.

They encountered the player characters, after all.

[James Jacobs]

Calling them "notoriously unlucky" is somewhat misleading; we should have been more clear.

They're unlucky creatures to those around them, not to each other. A broken mirror, for example, is unlucky, but not to itself. Likewise, a four-leaf clover is lucky, but not to itself. "Lucky" and "unlucky" are adjectives here to describe the effects these creatures have on others around them, not game terms at that point.

In any event, a pugwampi's unluck effect has no effect at all on other gremlins—by which is meant creatures of the gremlin race. Like other pugwampis. They aren't affected by each other's unluck aura at all.

[crmanriq]

James Jacobs wrote:

Calling them "notoriously unlucky" is somewhat misleading; we should have been more clear.

They're unlucky creatures to those around them, not to each other. A broken mirror, for example, is unlucky, but not to itself. Likewise, a four-leaf clover is lucky, but not to itself. "Lucky" and "unlucky" are adjectives here to describe the effects these creatures have on others around them, not game terms at that point.

In any event, a pugwampi's unluck effect has no effect at all on other gremlins—by which is meant creatures of the gremlin race. Like other pugwampis. They aren't affected by each other's unluck aura at all.

Many thanks for the clarification.