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Have you guys ever considered doing Map cards like the item cards? The map packs are all nice and well, but they're not very customizable. There's very little in the way of changing those layouts, some of them can be made into smaller areas (using less cards) but not really.
How about card "tiles?"
Think of your regular dwarven forge miniature pieces... except make them as cards! Need a corner.. well here's a corner card... need a coordinator.. well put these 4 cards down side by side, need a dead end.. well there's a dead end card.
This could offer a more intricate premade dungeon while allowing US to buy 2 or 3 starters and having enough cards to make almost any dungeon our heart desired.
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I suggested Map Objects in the past. It would seem Courey is open to this idea. He has suggested a PDF Object Pack. Take what you want, print what you need. Personally, I would like tiles that cover some of his previous maps. Not a big fan of the guy that bled his way to somewhere in the dungeon. Bloody footsteps and then a dead body. Nice to have a few tiles to cover that up.
Bloody Path? I like it. In case it has not been made apparent in the other message-board about this, I AM building a map building accessory product. It is separate from Paizo and does not tie-in to any specific map product. These are sets of textures, objects, effects, maybe creatures, that you can add to your VTT or for building your own maps in a pixel-based program (Photoshop, Gimp, Corel, Painter)
The content for the first pack will be available before PaizoCon and at the event itself, but with a special convention-only bonus. (yet-to-be-determined). Please fill me up with any suggestions for content and wish-list, I am listening. Thanks. You can email me, too.
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Bloody Path? I like it. In case it has not been made apparent in the other message-board about this, I AM building a map building accessory product. It is separate from Paizo and does not tie-in to any specific map product. These are sets of textures, objects, effects, maybe creatures, that you can add to your VTT or for building your own maps in a pixel-based program (Photoshop, Gimp, Corel, Painter)
The content for the first pack will be available before PaizoCon and at the event itself, but with a special convention-only bonus. (yet-to-be-determined). Please fill me up with any suggestions for content and wish-list, I am listening. Thanks. You can email me, too.
Hehehe... Corey, how about bloody footprints as piece! Great to add to any other texture! Oh and some nice blood splatters too, maybe some body parts too.
Laying out the map cards.
Player: "what IS that?"
GM: "Bloody footprints"
Later
Player: "What IS that?"
GM: "Entrails and an arm."
Player: "Hey guys, let's go check out that other hallway right quick."
Chief Technical Officer
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Have you guys ever considered doing Map cards like the item cards? The map packs are all nice and well, but they're not very customizable. There's very little in the way of changing those layouts, some of them can be made into smaller areas (using less cards) but not really.
How about card "tiles?"
Think of your regular dwarven forge miniature pieces... except make them as cards! Need a corner.. well here's a corner card... need a coordinator.. well put these 4 cards down side by side, need a dead end.. well there's a dead end card.
This could offer a more intricate premade dungeon while allowing US to buy 2 or 3 starters and having enough cards to make almost any dungeon our heart desired.
How does this differ from Wizards' Dungeon Tiles?
I think dungeon and battle effects might warrant it's own release, Krome.
Vic: This differs from the WotC maps maps tiles in that it will encourage all levesl of map creators a set of tools to enliven their maps and enhance their skills at creating an visually enlivened gaming table. Wow, that almost sounded like professional product copy.
More tidbits to come.
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Chief Technical Officer
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I think dungeon and battle effects might warrant it's own release, Krome.
Vic: This differs from the WotC maps maps tiles in that it will encourage all levesl of map creators a set of tools to enliven their maps and enhance their skills at creating an visually enlivened gaming table. Wow, that almost sounded like professional product copy.
More tidbits to come.
Maybe I'm being dense here, but I'm still not getting how it's different.
Maybe I'm being dense here, but I'm still not getting how it's different.I think dungeon and battle effects might warrant it's own release, Krome.
Vic: This differs from the WotC maps maps tiles in that it will encourage all levesl of map creators a set of tools to enliven their maps and enhance their skills at creating an visually enlivened gaming table. Wow, that almost sounded like professional product copy.
More tidbits to come.
What I think folks are wanting is art and cards that are Paizo style, can be tailored to specific APs/Modules/Countries etc., along the lines of the decks you already do. Also, if someone has that nearly perfect map set, and just needs a fountain that is engraved with Thassilonian runes, or needs to cover up bloody stains dragging off the map so the players don't follow a red herring, or whatever, these would allow some modular building fun :)
And imagine for those who want to do a truly random dungeon ... shuffle, deal the cards and play 'em as you go to build the dungeon/encounter :)
Maybe I'm being dense here, but I'm still not getting how it's different.I think dungeon and battle effects might warrant it's own release, Krome.
Vic: This differs from the WotC maps maps tiles in that it will encourage all levesl of map creators a set of tools to enliven their maps and enhance their skills at creating an visually enlivened gaming table. Wow, that almost sounded like professional product copy.
More tidbits to come.
I think it's more like Cardmaster in the old TSR days.
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How does this differ from Wizards' Dungeon Tiles?
It doesn't. It's just a different format that's more compact and offers more variety. Wizard's Dungeon Tiles serve the same purpose, but IMHO you ended up with fewer usable pieces if you buy multiples of the same set.
Not to mention I don't like their idea of a dungeon corridor.. a 4x12 tile with no "walls" drawn on them. My desire is a dwarve forge style cards.
http://www.dwarvenforge.com/store/product_image.php?imageid=320
I think dungeon and battle effects might warrant it's own release, Krome.
Vic: This differs from the WotC maps maps tiles in that it will encourage all levesl of map creators a set of tools to enliven their maps and enhance their skills at creating an visually enlivened gaming table. Wow, that almost sounded like professional product copy.
Except for the typo.
Ah... I see, so you're talking literally about poker-sized cards? Hmm.
Yup, same as the existing loverly cards you put out :) You wouldn't want a border on them, but the size and shape would be perfect for layout and very, very portable :)
I think dungeon and battle effects might warrant it's own release, Krome.
Vic: This differs from the WotC maps maps tiles in that it will encourage all levesl of map creators a set of tools to enliven their maps and enhance their skills at creating an visually enlivened gaming table. Wow, that almost sounded like professional product copy.
More tidbits to come.
Don't oversort!
The trouble with paid mapsets is that you need a mix of things for a good map. It the sets are oversorted, we'll have to buy all of them, which means I won't buy more than one.
If bloody footprints and viscera must go into an appropriate set such as "Murder most foul" which might be good for Pathfinder #2 and the like, fine. But a full release of just gore? Not likely to buy. Maybe I'm alone in this.
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RPG Superstar 2009 Top 8
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I think this is a great idea. What is being suggested are things like wells, treasure chests, skeletons, refuse piles, spider webs, pits, arcane circles, traps, etc. being put on smaller cards so that the DM can throw them down on existing map pack products. Is that right?
If that is right, then it sounds wonderful. My question is 'what about the floor texture?'. Unless the cards are transparent other than the dungeon flavour they add, the card is going to look out of place unless it matches the pack or grid.
Is it possible to make see-through cards?
I think this is a great idea. What is being suggested are things like wells, treasure chests, skeletons, refuse piles, spider webs, pits, arcane circles, traps, etc. being put on smaller cards so that the DM can throw them down on existing map pack products. Is that right?
If that is right, then it sounds wonderful. My question is 'what about the floor texture?'. Unless the cards are transparent other than the dungeon flavour they add, the card is going to look out of place unless it matches the pack or grid.
Is it possible to make see-through cards?
Oooh ... I was just going to deal with the "mismatch" but this sounds nice! I know it's possible, as I have a neat deck of see through playing cards, and I think Ziggity, one of the Cranium line games is a see through supple plastic card deck.
Print costs. These are quite steep, especially with something where transparency is concerned or adhesives. Getting the right effect is tricky, like a ColorForm. Remember those?
Rest assured, I AM working on these aspects for my product, not the sticker part, but having objects, floors, and effects that can be used to create your own maps. My product is solely digital, for now.
Website to launch next week. <crossing fingers>
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I think this is a great idea. What is being suggested are things like wells, treasure chests, skeletons, refuse piles, spider webs, pits, arcane circles, traps, etc. being put on smaller cards so that the DM can throw them down on existing map pack products. Is that right?
No.. but I suppose you could use the cards that way. What's being suggested is as I said..
http://www.dwarvenforge.com/store/product_image.php?imageid=320
Cards like those pieces being made. You'd make a dungeon using the cards. Since they would be using Paizo unique art they might not work with other stuff, like the Wizards' Dungeon Tiles.
Sure there would be wells, chests, refuse, etc. cards.. because those are part of making dungeons, but a good 60% of the cards would likely be "tiles" to build a dungeon corridors and rooms.
If that is right, then it sounds wonderful. My question is 'what about the floor texture?'. Unless the cards are transparent other than the dungeon flavour they add, the card is going to look out of place unless it matches the pack or grid. Is it possible to make see-through cards?
Even though it's not exactly right, they could totally do a transparent starter set.. but not until much later into the line. For starters, they'd need to know what "tiles" were in high demand. They would have to make sure it would have a lot of "must have" pieces because the transparency would no doubt significantly increase the cost per card which to some might make it less attractive to buy (and even less attractive to buy multiple starter decks.)
For starters, they'd need to know what "tiles" were in high demand. They would have to make sure it would have a lot of "must have" pieces because the transparency would no doubt significantly increase the cost per card which to some might make it less attractive to buy (and even less attractive to buy multiple starter decks.)
I have been reading everyone's suggestions about content and what they want to build with. This content WILL be produced in my digital product. The art will be different from what I have done for the GameMastery maps, but will retain the same level of detail. The dungeon theme is high on my list. Look for a website announcement SOON!
Also, fell free to email suggestions for content to me. This is a product for the gamers, why not have the gamers get a say in the content.
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RPG Superstar 2009 Top 8
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If that is right, then it sounds wonderful. My question is 'what about the floor texture?'. Unless the cards are transparent other than the dungeon flavour they add, the card is going to look out of place unless it matches the pack or grid. Is it possible to make see-through cards?Even though it's not exactly right, they could totally do a transparent starter set.. but not until much later into the line. For starters, they'd need to know what "tiles" were in high demand. They would have to make sure it would have a lot of "must have" pieces because the transparency would no doubt significantly increase the cost per card which to some might make it less attractive to buy (and even less attractive to buy multiple starter decks.)
Oh! Oh! One random transparent card per deck. That would make me happy.
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You know just a deck of cards with stuff like 10' hallway, or 5 x 5 dead end, or whatever so you could generate a random dungeon would be so fun! I would have a stylized image but this idea is not to lay them down - more like something you would draw and read.
Hmm, I might have to play with prototyping again ...
You know just a deck of cards with stuff like 10' hallway, or 5 x 5 dead end, or whatever so you could generate a random dungeon would be so fun! I would have a stylized image but this idea is not to lay them down - more like something you would draw and read.
Cool! Wheels have begun to spin. Printing is the key here to making all of the right pieces in an affordable deck and card size, but it sounds doable. It would be ideal if the pieces were cut to size so you have a variety, 2 x 3 for most, 1x1, 2 x 2, etc. Would overlapping the cards be out of the question? What if there 1 x 1 was in the middle of the 2 x 3 card? The 2 x 3 edges would always match up then. Also, corridors could taper naturally on a 2 x 3 card and not look awkward going to a smaller card, the edges would match up and the imagery would be cohesive.
Also, if the product was to be made, how many of you would buy in to test it out to cover a print run? A pack of 50 cards to make a dungeon: Halls, rooms, doors, bones, traps, treasure?
You know just a deck of cards with stuff like 10' hallway, or 5 x 5 dead end, or whatever so you could generate a random dungeon would be so fun! I would have a stylized image but this idea is not to lay them down - more like something you would draw and read.Cool! Wheels have begun to spin. Printing is the key here to making all of the right pieces in an affordable deck and card size, but it sounds doable. It would be ideal if the pieces were cut to size so you have a variety, 2 x 3 for most, 1x1, 2 x 2, etc. Would overlapping the cards be out of the question? What if there 1 x 1 was in the middle of the 2 x 3 card? The 2 x 3 edges would always match up then. Also, corridors could taper naturally on a 2 x 3 card and not look awkward going to a smaller card, the edges would match up and the imagery would be cohesive.
Also, if the product was to be made, how many of you would buy in to test it out to cover a print run? A pack of 50 cards to make a dungeon: Halls, rooms, doors, bones, traps, treasure?
I like the idea of overlapping, so that you don't have to fumble around with smaller and larger pieces. I know that I would be interested, depending on what kind of price range you were talking about :) If the quality of the cards is like that of Paizo's decks, and the cost is reasonably in that range, I'd be in for a pack or two.
I've been following the information on your virtual maps with interest, but my group isn't in to VTT or the like, so something for my coffee table would be awesome!
And if it works, I would definitely recommend decks that would allow us to build mansions and castles, for those monstrous maps that many of us are hand-drawing currently :)
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Oh! Oh! One random transparent card per deck. That would make me happy.
Or not. Have you seen the price of the item cards? Do you realize 1 deck gets you the whole set. Do you have any idea how many decks you'd have to buy to get them all then.. that's over kill and something I'd expect Wizards to do. If there were to be transparent cards, save them for their own deck.
I want to send an update to anyone who is keeping tabs on this thread. I have some GOOD concepts in the works for this. The wheels are turning. :)
I want to send an update to anyone who is keeping tabs on this thread. I have some GOOD concepts in the works for this. The wheels are turning. :)
Sweet :) I took a look at your site from the VTT Maps thread, and I love what I saw. I just don't have any computer use for all that goodness (old school coffee table top player here ::laughing::)
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Sweet :) I took a look at your site from the VTT Maps thread, and I love what I saw. I just don't have any computer use for all that goodness (old school coffee table top player here ::laughing::)
I haven't actually tried it yet, but I want to try printing a bunch of clear-background pictures - stuff like chests and spell effects - on acetates (those clear plastic sheets you use with overhead projectors). That way I could cut them out and have some nice graphics to toss on top of maps I draw or whatever BattleMap or FlipMap I'm using.
I haven't actually tried it yet, but I want to try printing a bunch of clear-background pictures - stuff like chests and spell effects - on acetates (those clear plastic sheets you use with overhead projectors). That way I could cut them out and have some nice graphics to toss on top of maps I draw or whatever BattleMap or FlipMap I'm using.
This has been discussed as a product idea. For realsies. I might have a mockup at PaizoCon from my own collection of items and spells from the New Expeditions set. Good stuff ahead!
Paizo gets money instead of WotC? :D
I like this idea. A lot. I liked the DT when they came out. Then their thickness was frustrating on my playing surfaces. Then storing them conveniently turned into a hassle. Then keeping track of what tiles were available was frustrating. Then finding out that the two designs I absolutely HAD TO HAVE were printed on the SAME TILE got a touch frustrating.
Yes - map cards sized to fit popular trading-card-game boxes printed on a single side is an awesome thing. Dungeons and buildings sets are the most obvious products. Different floor/wall textures would be great. Just my thoughts.
Yes - map cards sized to fit popular trading-card-game boxes printed on a single side is an awesome thing. Dungeons and buildings sets are the most obvious products. Different floor/wall textures would be great. Just my thoughts.
Hmmm, good thoughts. These are along the lines of thoughts of a product I might be working on the last couple weeks through Mapping Adventures. Keep an eye on the BLOG for updates. Please email through the Mapping Adventures site for comments and product suggestions. The content is being build for you and I want your input!
I like the notion of map cards very much. I spoke with Lisa about something similar at PaizoCon (and some other mapmaking friends of mine at GenCon). My suggestion was a map pack that would serve multiple purposes a little different from Wizards' Dungeon Tiles. Basically, I wanted them to synergize with the awesome Flip Mats Paizo already does.
Back in the old days of gaming (yeah, I know...you can call me a grognard geek), my brother and I used the blue-and-white geomorphs printed on card stock. You could cut them into different sizes, but basically, each one had a set of interconnecting passageways and rooms (some dungeon style, others cavern-esque). They also included a grid the same size as normal graph paper. Along their edges, they always included a passage that "left the page" at exactly the same spot so you could interconnect them with other cards and build a random dungeon or cavern system. They were mega-useful.
How does this apply to map packs and flip-mats, you ask?
Well, my suggestion was to design Paizo's flip-mats and map packs so that the cards from the map packs could seamlessly be laid down on the flip-mats and "blend in" with all of the terrain features already on the flip-mat. For instance, say you don't want that druid's circle on the Forest flip-mat. Fine. Drop a card from the Forest map pack and it would overlay the druid's circle with a new set of trees or a campfire...and, more importantly, the edges of the card from the map pack would already be designed to fit with all of the foresty detail on the flip mat. Same concept for the City Market flip-mat, Tavern flip-mat, Dungeon flip-mat, and so on.
The bottom line is that it's cooler to have modularized mapping products you can use for your tabletop when portraying situations with miniatures. The existing flip-mats and map cards are useful in their own right, of course. But they could be made better if they were also designed to work in tandem, too...rather than just standalone.
Now, if you extend that idea to also include a deck of cards the size of a normal deck of poker playing cards, each one with depictions of certain objects like a door, table and chairs, treasure chest, various obstacles, and even secret doors or pit traps where you can flip the card to reveal them...I think that would be even more ideal. Then, you could have three different map products that work together:
1) Flip-Mats - to serve as the underlying "foundation"...using either the "blank" side for general terrain underfoot...or the more "detailed" side for a full representation of a forest, mountain pass, swamp, etc.
2) Map Packs - to give you a smaller chunk of "grid" you can use to overlay very specific sections of the flip-mat to add or change certain terrain features as seamlessly as possible. I also think you could make these map packs a little larger...say up to a regular 8-1/2 x 11 sheet of paper for easier transport with all your other gaming books. That would also give you more room for including stuff along the edges to let them "link up" with other "sheets" from the map pack and with the flip-mats.
3) Map Cards - to let you drop in specific objects on either the flip-mat or map packs to further change the interior components of the maps.
All three working together in harmony!
Ahem.
Or something like that...
My three-cents,
--Neil
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That would certainly add a new puzzle for Courey to tinker with. I believe he is up to the task too. If they did do such a thing, I would definitely put something on their packaging saying, "Now useable with City Map Pack, Tavern Flipmat, etc.
I am really big on printed icons as well. Such as a watermark impression that would tell you that it is compatible in this spot and which map pack or flipmat! I was not a big fan of the white arrows telling how to put the maps together, but only because they were too strong in color and not light enough.
Truly, making all future maps with their own set icon and having future maps display that icon where the modular spots are, would go a long, long way in compelling one to buy the complete line. It would also be cool too.
I am sold on this whole concept, including Map Cards! Excellent idea Neil. Now, if we could only get thos overlays to stay put without using some rubbery stuff that leaves grease impressions.
P.S. Just read above about how they think the map cards should work. Silly me, sometimes I read the bottom of posts and not so much of the old cruddy top stuff. Anyway, this reminds me of that game where you lay down pipe and have to use wrenches for the leaky pipes. That idea sounds good too, but again, making them compatible for drop down on the Flipmats and Map Packs would again make it more valueable two-fold.
No, three-fold!
Zuxius
its not exactly what the OP had in mind but I would purchase a PDF with dungeon dressing (Tables, Braziers, Chests, Bookshelves, etc. similar to the counter collection PDFs) in a heartbeat.
Just throwing that out there.
I draw out my own maps on giant graph paper but it makes it look just that little bit cooler having a wooden table or bed thats in full color and taped on instead of just hastily sketched in with pencil.
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No biggy Polevoi. I'm surprised this thread is still kicking around with people posting in it.
Who knows, maybe one day we'll see map cards. The idea is so simple and I think it'd attract a lot of people that want to customization of Dwarven Forge without the expense (and storage issues!) of Dwarven Forge kits.
Have you guys ever considered doing Map cards like the item cards? The map packs are all nice and well, but they're not very customizable. There's very little in the way of changing those layouts, some of them can be made into smaller areas (using less cards) but not really...
This is exactly what is great at doing. You can create your own tiles however you need them to be - and you can do it really, really fast!
Check it out at www.undermountaingames.com. Hopefully we'll be selling on Paizo soon too, so you can support Paizo and get killer custom tiles at the same time! ;-P
Hmm DTiles looks more like a map tool software that lets you print out to scale..
It sounds like the OP is looking for a way to have a library of tileable map objects at hand in order to piece together whatever map element is needed at the time. With the deck of cards as the example, you might have a room corner card and a door card and a hallway card, etc. an then you could line them up on the table to make your room.
DTiles lets you do just that really quickly, but unlike the static pdf tiles or a deck of cards, etc. with DTiles you can build your own library of custom designed tiles - or even just small card-sized pieces - that you can piece together at game time. But since DTiles is also a map tool, you don't have to stop there, you could just paint your whole dungeon out at once. So, it serves both purposes really well.
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It sounds like the OP is looking for a way to have a library of tileable map objects at hand in order to piece together whatever map element is needed at the time. With the deck of cards as the example, you might have a room corner card and a door card and a hallway card, etc. an then you could line them up on the table to make your room.
I am the original poster thankyou, I know what I posted.
DTiles lets you do just that really quickly, but unlike the static pdf tiles or a deck of cards, etc. with DTiles you can build your own library of custom designed tiles - or even just small card-sized pieces - that you can piece together at game time. But since DTiles is also a map tool, you don't have to stop there, you could just paint your whole dungeon out at once. So, it serves both purposes really well.
Sounds like I was right, it's a maptool software that lets you print out maps to scale. Not exactly what I had in mind in the original post.
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After some thought, I think it would be better to have placeable objects such as what we see in Dungeon Tiles. Cards require certain backgrounds and that is too limiting.
Adhesives, nah.
Cards, nah...but if you did put it out I guess I would...
I think throwing down placeables would be cool. Cards that erase or add a new door.... to maps I already own would work but I find the cards too conditional to imagine you guys would make money off it. Your best bet is Object Packs....finie!
I'm not beating a dead horse - but I'll poke it and *see* if it is dead...