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Will the events list who is GM'ing the game?
Can I list "4" for everything?
If one does list "4" for everything (or for a several things during the same time frame), I am assuming that once you are selected for an event in a time frame, there would be no chance of being assigned anything else for that same time frame, correct?
I'm not sure if this is feasible but with few lines of code you could probably add priorization when shuffling attendees after first round. There is many ways to do it but one could be to add up ranks for attendees and arrange them after shuffle on ascending order based on added up rank total so that those who have received low ranked slots previously are now on top of the list.
This makes getting at least one high ranked slot more probable for everybody and encourages to use other than just rank 4 values (I'm not sure if thats even a good thing :)
A fascinating selection schemehonestly, i read this post twice. when a version comes out in english, can someone let me know.....lol
I just hope I can get into an event, say Saturday or sunday morning sometime, with my buddy. thats about all Im asking for....
What's up:
- He's still working on it, so if anyone sees anything unfair, let him know.What we do:
- Everyone gets to rank *every* event from 0 to 4. Zero = Ick!, 4 = Yeah!"
- You can buddy up with someone so that you will *only* be placed in an event if your buddy is too.
- We get lots of time to do this.What they'll do:
- After that he's going to random pick people, which is fair, but not necessarily "equal", because coding something that would be as equal as possible would be crazy, and about impossible given the extremely limited resources for some of the most desirable events.
- The random pick will be computer and dice based, so no funny stuff.How it works:
- Each day will be separate chances
- First he'll pick a random person and her buddy if any.
- Then he'll give them a random event from her top choices that are still available, and also has room for her buddy.
- After that he random picks a new person from the pool (which doesn't include the last person (+buddy), and his buddy if any, and repeats the process.
- If everyone has been picked, it starts over with everyone in the pool again.
- If every event for the day is full, the cycle stops and repeats for the next day, until all four days are done.Then what?:
- Any leftover events are first-come, first-serve. We'll know when to look.
- If there's a leftover event that you'd like instead of one that you got (same timeslot), you can give up your slot win. But you can't signup for both.
Very cool Gary, thanks!
Not necessarily equitable, but quite fair. Also the individual rankings are completely at...
Majuba indeed rocks. Thanks for the translation. Im now pretty sure I dont care how the lottery works, just that I get into a few games. But, if I dont understand correctly, I may care more, or less. Im still not sure. :-)
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This makes getting at least one high ranked slot more probable for everybody and encourages to use other than just rank 4 values (I'm not sure if thats even a good thing :)
The ranks you give to events have no relation to other people's priorities.
Let's say I have 5 events I'm interested in. I rank them as follows:
#1 - 4
#2 - 3
#3 - 3
#4 - 2
#5 - 2
The system then creates 4 pools:
(4) #1, (3) #2, #3, (2) #4, #5, (1) -empty-
The system then starts pulling names out of a hat. When my name comes up, the system looks in my (4) pool and finds a single event. If that event has space, I get entered, and my name gets set aside. If that event is full, then it moves on to my (3) pool. It finds two events in that pool, and /randomly/ selects one of those two events. If there's space, great. If not, then it checks the other in my (3) pool, and so on.
Why not mark everything a 4? Because there's events that I legitimately care more about getting into, and others that I'd participate in, but don't care as much about. I don't want the system to randomly select from all my choices, I want it to look at Super Duper Event #1 first.
This becomes even more relevant when I'm interested in two events that overlap. I can only get into one, and I can tell the system which one I care more about.
As said above: you can mark everything a 4, but it would be exactly the same as if you marked everything a 1. No matter how your priorities are set, it doesn't effect the chances that your name will be drawn in the Lotto and you'll be put to death.
...or whatever.
Chief Technical Officer
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Why not mark everything a 4? Because there's events that I legitimately care more about getting into, and others that I'd participate in, but don't care as much about. I don't want the system to randomly select from all my choices, I want it to look at Super Duper Event #1 first.
This becomes even more relevant when I'm interested in two events that overlap. I can only get into one, and I can tell the system which one I care more about.
As said above: you can mark everything a 4, but it would be exactly the same as if you marked everything a 1. No matter how your priorities are set, it doesn't effect the chances that your name will be drawn in the Lotto and you'll be put to death.
...or whatever.
Right. That's what Gary means when he says it's strategy-proof: you can't "game the system" by ranking everything the same.
Imagine that we're doing this type of lottery for your dinner tonight. If you tell us that you like Pizza and Hamburgers equally, when we come around to feed you, you'll have an equal chance of getting Pizza or Hamburgers (assuming we have both left). But if you tell us you like Pizza *more* than Hamburgers, then if we have Pizza left when we feed you, you'll get Pizza. In short, your best strategy is to be honest about your preferences.
Further, if you spend some time on your rankings, and actually use 4s, 3s, 2s, *and* 1s, you'll probably be much happier with the results than if you just use 4s, or if you just use 4s and 1s.
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Senior Software Developer
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I just wanted to give a belated thanks to Majuba for translating what I had thought was plain language about how the lottery will work into what really was plain language.
(In fact, Vic is writing the instructions blurb that will appear with the sign-up-for-events thingie, and I told him he should probably just use Majuba's summary instead of my inadvertently obtuse post. :-)
Further, if you spend some time on your rankings, and actually use 4s, 3s, 2s, *and* 1s, you'll probably be much happier with the results than if you just use 4s, or if you just use 4s and 1s.
Thats true. And if following rounds were priorized (so that those that got low ranked slots previously would after new shuffle be on top of the list) you would probably be even more happier :) But maybe it's too much work for too little gain :) Feature creep is a dangerous beast anyway...
EDIT: Oh i see errors of my way... Somehow i thought there would be seperate set of slots for each day. Nothing to see here, carry on.
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Just wondering. Does everyone expect these events to be that limited in seating? Surely, plans could be made to accomodate the most popular events by seeing the desires of the fans.
Or is that impossible?
Kind of suck to go to a Convention that has everything you want to do "occupied".
Better have James Jacobs do some cat juggling in his own one-man theatre show or Erik Mona having a pull my finger contest outside those closed doors.
There needs to be an alternate show for the big missed showcase events. A show for the people that missed the reason they came to PaizoCon.
So when lucky event attendees say, "Wow, you missed something pretty spectacular".
The response would be, "Not sure what was in there...but what happened out here could not have been topped it!"
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Wayfinder, PaizoCon Founder
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For the first PaizoCon, we were quite low-tech. We DID draw names out of a hat (a top hat to be exact). This is a hi-tech hat drawing, with a lot more events. A LOT MORE. So, my supreme thanks and admiration to Josh, Gary, Vic, and everyone else that is helping to throw the lottery and the logistics of all this together.
From what I see, though, the goals for the outcome are still essentially the same as they were for our much smaller PaizoCon I. Last year, the goal was simply to give every single attendee the opportunity to play in a game with a Paizo contributor/writer/editor. And I believe that everyone who wanted to do this, did in fact get to play in such a game session. True, they may not have gotten to play with exactly who they preferred to, but still, they DID get to play with either Jason, James, or Wolfgang. And that, frankly, was the whole point.
This lottery should result in the same outcome....every attendee should have the opportunity to play in a session with one of the writers, contributors, guests, or staff members. Chances are that many will get at least two opportunities to do so. Whether they were your primary preferences or not (I assume EVERYONE will be loading their "4"s into Monte's game...), you WILL get some time with Paizo peoples, if you so choose.
And you forget the banquet, too. Plenty of opportunity there. And the after-hours activities. And....well, you get the idea. Just keep this in mind: this isn't GenCon. There are only 250 of us. Plenty of opportunities to visit and play with Paizo peeps over the 3 days.
Based on the events submissions and the population of the show, we can't actually guarantee that everyone will get a game with a writer, contributor, guest, or Paizo employee. We can pretty much guarantee that everyone will get to play something every day (and most likely 2 somethings on Saturday) but the volume of attendees vs. the number of events being run by the above folks doesn't merit a promise that we can seat everyone at a game with Erik, James, Jason, Monte, etc.
Just wanted to clarify that lest we unnecessarily get someone's hopes up.
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True, they may not have gotten to play with exactly who they preferred to, but still, they DID get to play with either Jason, James, or Wolfgang. And that, frankly, was the whole point.
EEEK!!! Not that Jason-guy! He's creepy! I still have nightmares from what the bad man did to me at Origins!
/wimpers
"...Bogomolnaia-Moulin simultaneous eating algorithm would be, but establishing full preference relations for 250 attendees and 70 events is problematic. Also, I couldn't figure out how to code a probabilistic serial algorithm because apparently I'm just that slow this week."
I've read enough science fiction to know that trying to create something called a Bogomolnaia-Moulin simultaneous eating algorithm is probably a bad idea.
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Wayfinder, PaizoCon Founder
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Based on the events submissions and the population of the show, we can't actually guarantee that everyone will get a game with a writer, contributor, guest, or Paizo employee. We can pretty much guarantee that everyone will get to play something every day (and most likely 2 somethings on Saturday) but the volume of attendees vs. the number of events being run by the above folks doesn't merit a promise that we can seat everyone at a game with Erik, James, Jason, Monte, etc.
Just wanted to clarify that lest we unnecessarily get someone's hopes up.
Ooops. Sorry 'bout that...my figurative math was very bad. Plus, I was counting the interactive and fight events as part of the "opportunities". Looks like I got caught up in the spirit of the thing, and not the actual realities. (DOH!)
So, yes, please do not misconstrue my above comments as a guarantee on Paizo's part. Note that I'm an attendee this year, just like everyone else, so I really have no idea what I'm talking about.
I'll shut up now.
Based on the events submissions and the population of the show, we can't actually guarantee that everyone will get a game with a writer, contributor, guest, or Paizo employee. We can pretty much guarantee that everyone will get to play something every day (and most likely 2 somethings on Saturday) but the volume of attendees vs. the number of events being run by the above folks doesn't merit a promise that we can seat everyone at a game with Erik, James, Jason, Monte, etc.
Just wanted to clarify that lest we unnecessarily get someone's hopes up.
On the other hand, what about those of us who just want to play seven rounds of Pathfinder Society? What's the situation looking like there?
-Matt
Well, there are 4 scenarios, not 7, so at most you could do all four scenarios plus the interactive. Doing all four scenarios means you'd need at least two different characters since the scenarios are 2 entry-level scenarios and 2 mid-level scenarios. The interactive is for all levels.
If your desire is to do all Society only Society then rank the Society slots you want in as "4" and the rest as "0" and you'll have a decent chance of getting in to at least one game in all four scenarios (since you'll get at least one game on Friday, 2 games on Saturday, and 1 game on Sunday).
Of course, you can also organize Society games with folks in the open gaming area as well.
On the other hand, what about those of us who just want to play seven rounds of Pathfinder Society? What's the situation looking like there?
There are four different scenarios scheduled, plus the interactive. If you crave more Pathfinder goodness than that, I recommend that you see which slots you have left after the initial sign-up, then get back on the boards here to recruit a party for one of the other Pathfinder Society adventures in the open slot. If you wait until the 'con, it can become very difficult to put a table together.
On the other hand, what about those of us who just want to play seven rounds of Pathfinder Society? What's the situation looking like there?There are four different scenarios scheduled, plus the interactive. If you crave more Pathfinder goodness than that, I recommend that you see which slots you have left after the initial sign-up, then get back on the boards here to recruit a party for one of the other Pathfinder Society adventures in the open slot. If you wait until the 'con, it can become very difficult to put a table together.
Sir Wulf, I think we can probably do some "on site" mustering for tables in the Open Gaming area. I've done this plenty of times...so it should be do-able. Still, knowing who is going to be available to GM and who wants to play what would make it simpler.
CJ
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Contributor
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There are four different scenarios scheduled, plus the interactive. If you crave more Pathfinder goodness than that, I recommend that you see which slots you have left after the initial sign-up, then get back on the boards here to recruit a party for one of the other Pathfinder Society adventures in the open slot. If you wait until the 'con, it can become very difficult to put a table together.
Sir Wulf! You will be at Paizocon? Please say yes, because I will be there too. Apparently, Josh doesn't need me (boo hoo) as he's got enough volunteers, so I plan to plop my ass down in the open gaming room with a sign that says "I'm Lou Agresta. Will run games for food."
PM me over on the WC boards with your schedule, dude. Gaming together is required! I promise not to abuse your character this time.
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Senior Software Developer
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PAIZOCON 2009 Event Schedule has been posted.
Event lottery signup will begin Monday, 05:00 PM
Event lottery signup will close Tue, May 26, 2009, 02:00 PM
Then we run the lottery.
Signup for any remaining open slots will begin Fri, May 29, 2009, 02:00 PM
Signup for any remaining open slots will close Fri, Jun 5, 2009, 02:00 PM
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Contributor, RPG Superstar 2008 Top 4, Legendary Games
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PAIZOCON 2009 Event Schedule has been posted.
Event lottery signup will begin Monday, 05:00 PM
Event lottery signup will close Tue, May 26, 2009, 02:00 PM
Then we run the lottery.
Signup for any remaining open slots will begin Fri, May 29, 2009, 02:00 PM
Signup for any remaining open slots will close Fri, Jun 5, 2009, 02:00 PM
The times of some of the events seem a little off... as in some events are *STARTING* at midnight and running until 2:00 AM. Maybe I'm just not used to SOP for gaming cons, but I wanted to at least check back and make sure the times were correct.
PAIZOCON 2009 Event Schedule has been posted. ...
Wow, nice list of events! Good job Paizo.
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Senior Software Developer
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The times of some of the events seem a little off... as in some events are *STARTING* at midnight and running until 2:00 AM. Maybe I'm just not used to SOP for gaming cons, but I wanted to at least check back and make sure the times were correct.
The events are all during the day, and none start at midnight. Now that I think about it, those times might be being displayed adjusted for your time zone, instead of being displayed in US/Pacific time. If that's the case, I'll fix it on Monday.
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OK, question re: placement within events and bids. Since the low tier PFS events repeat each day (12p-4pm on Friday, 8a-12p/1p-5p Saturday and 8a-12p on Sunday), if I put in bids for these events for each day, and get selected for one of the events (say PFSS23) for Friday, will I automatically be pulled from the draws for the other days (to avoid duplication as one can only run through any individual PFSS once)? I would imagine this would be the case, but just want to double check.
A secondary question that arises is this, if I ranked Friday's low tier events at say 2 and Saturday's events at 4 does that get taken into consideration at all for those events, or is it just looked at on a day by day basis for the events offered on that day alone and not all instances of an event?
Great variety in the games offered folks. Their are quite a few that caught my eye, as well as some of the other events as well. I am looking forward to this more and more as the date gets closer.
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Senior Software Developer
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Now that I think about it, those times might be being displayed adjusted for your time zone, instead of being displayed in US/Pacific time.
OK, I've just verified that this is in fact what's happening. Our code tries hard to show you times in your own time zone, but clearly that's silly in this case, the time should be shown in the time zone of the event. I've added fixing that to my to-do list.
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Senior Software Developer
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OK, question re: placement within events and bids. Since the low tier PFS events repeat each day (12p-4pm on Friday, 8a-12p/1p-5p Saturday and 8a-12p on Sunday), if I put in bids for these events for each day, and get selected for one of the events (say PFSS23) for Friday, will I automatically be pulled from the draws for the other days (to avoid duplication as one can only run through any individual PFSS once)? I would imagine this would be the case, but just want to double check.
I haven't written the lottery code yet, but as currently conceived we would not remove the same scenario from your options for Saturday if you'd been assigned to that same scenario on Friday. I think this is probably a reasonable thing to do. I'm open to suggestions as to why this would not be a good idea.
[edit] In fact I remember a discussion internally about whether we should just present the Pathfinder Society scenarios once each in the lottery sign-up phase (and ignore days and timeslots for those altogether in the "I want to do this scenario" decision), and was talked out of that idea. But I don't remember the precise rationale that convinced me. Something about gaming with friends or something. Maybe our buddy system solves that problem.
A secondary question that arises is this, if I ranked Friday's low tier events at say 2 and Saturday's events at 4 does that get taken into consideration at all for those events, or is it just looked at on a day by day basis for the events offered on that day alone and not all instances of an event?
It'll be looked at on a day-by-day basis. That is, rankings for Friday events will not be considered when running the lottery for Saturday.
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So you can sign up for events that are conflicting, the system will figure out when you get assigned then take you out? For example, I sign up for event A, which is at 4-7 and give it a 3 then sign up for event B with is 5-8 and give it a 4. The system will take both into consideration and not just un enroll a person from both? Does my question make sense?
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Senior Software Developer
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During the lottery phase, go ahead and assign your preferences based on how much you want to attend an event. If two events are "must-haves," and they conflict in time, give them both fours. We won't assign you to both when we run the lottery.
After the lottery, when it's first-come, first-served, you can check off any event you like that isn't already full. (Or conflicts with an event you registered for via lottery -- you'll have to uncheck that lottery event first, and you'll get a warning that that's how you got your seat, and are you sure you want to give it up?)
But you won't be counted for events during the first-come, first-served phase that have time conflicts. You'll get a warning that you won't be assigned to any conflicting event until you resolve the conflicts. (If someone else takes the last seat at an event while you're resolving the conflict, your seat will be snaked out from under you....)
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OK, one more question, and it's gonna sound stupid, but I just want to be sure I'm prepared for anything that I get into and am willing to take the back-of-the-head slap if needed.
For events that state "materials provided" but do not state "characters provided" (as some do), do the materials include premade characters or will we need to bring a character? Or is that limited to PFSS and those events that clearly state "bring a character" (such as the Spire of Nex)?
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Contributor, RPG Superstar 2008 Top 4, Legendary Games
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The times of some of the events seem a little off... as in some events are *STARTING* at midnight and running until 2:00 AM. Maybe I'm just not used to SOP for gaming cons, but I wanted to at least check back and make sure the times were correct.The events are all during the day, and none start at midnight. Now that I think about it, those times might be being displayed adjusted for your time zone, instead of being displayed in US/Pacific time. If that's the case, I'll fix it on Monday.
My time zone *IS* US/Pacific time. I'm in Seattle, less than 10 miles from Paizo Central Command!
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I forgot how the all "4's" scenario works out. Can you use 4's for the events you really want to attend? As in four "4s". I assume using 4's would be good. If I put a three will someone else's 4 beat me out?
If I understand correctly, the lottery will basically just draw your name. Then it will look and see what you want to attend the most. If that is full, then it will go to what you ranked next, etc. If you put all 4's, the lottery will just throw you into some random event.
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Senior Software Developer
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I am scheduled to run a couple of events. If something conflicts with the times I am running, should I just rank those as a zero?
I think I'm going to have to coordinate with Josh's list of volunteers to prevent those conflicts, but just to be on the safe side, give a zero to everything that conflicts with events you're going to run.
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I am scheduled to run a couple of events. If something conflicts with the times I am running, should I just rank those as a zero?I think I'm going to have to coordinate with Josh's list of volunteers to prevent those conflicts, but just to be on the safe side, give a zero to everything that conflicts with events you're going to run.
How about for volunteers who are only alternates?
Can I still try to register for something during those slots, in case I'm not needed? Because there's lots of things I'd be interested in attending, rather than just doing nothing during a slot if I'm not needed.
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How about for volunteers who are only alternates?
Can I still try to register for something during those slots, in case I'm not needed? Because there's lots of things I'd be interested in attending, rather than just doing nothing during a slot if I'm not needed.
See, I was wondering the exact same thing. Perhaps a runner system, where you're fetched if needed? *chuckles*
Seriously, though, I'm just curious, too. I mean, I volunteered and I'm cool with that, just curious. *grins*
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I have one question about the buddy system. If you have a buddy will you and your buddy be together for all the events you put in for or just the one you want to be together on. My wife and I want to play in all the games together but she will not want to do the Fiction Workshop or the PFS Open call.
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Here's another question: will the lottery rounds be by time slot, or by day? If there's a "must have" (4) at two different, non-conflicting, times, should I mark them both 4, hoping to get into both, or will the system just choose one of them, and then move on to the 3s?
It will choose one of your 4s at random, then set your name aside and go through every other name in the hat. Then all the names go back in the hat, and when you get pulled again, it will again look first at your 4s.
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Hi
I finished my lottery choices and hit save. Nothing happened. Was something supposed to happen? I only ask as when I look at the event list now everything is set to "0". Was there something I missed?
Had the same experience when I hit the top "save changes" button ... re-entered my choices and hit the bottom save button and looks like it took.