[Druid, Paladin] Animal Companion Share Spells


Playtest Reports

Sovereign Court

Pathfinder Pawns Subscriber

I was wondering if the dropping of the following wording from the 3.5 SRD was intentional:

Share Spell
At the druid’s option, she may have any spell (but not any spell-like ability) she casts upon herself also affect her animal companion. The animal companion must be within 5 feet of her at the time of casting to receive the benefit. If the spell or effect has a duration other than instantaneous, it stops affecting the animal companion if the companion moves farther than 5 feet away and will not affect the animal again, even if it returns to the druid before the duration expires.

I am currently building a Mounted Combat oriented druid and I hope this feature is still there.

Thanks in advance for your help!

Sovereign Court

I'm pretty sure it's intentional change. It played well in my playtest and I played it as an intentional and much needed change. Now you just have the choice of casting any spell with a range of personal or you on your AnCo which works much better.

this is the latest version from the anco update jason posted on the design forums

Share Spells (Ex): The druid may cast a spell
with a target of “You” on her animal companion
(as a touch range spell) instead of on herself. A
druid may cast spells on her animal companion
even if the spells normally do not affect creatures
of the companion’s type (animal).

Sovereign Court

Pathfinder Pawns Subscriber

Was the nerf required? now if I cast Bull's Strength on myself, it does not affect my animal companion anymore, which is sad... :(


I kind of think it was though...

I remember vaguely doing a 'gish' that when buffed up had all his attacks -- then all his familiars, and they both tanked it up rather well.


I'm playing a Druid right now, and I've been a little frustrated at the lack, myself. My Animal Companion's alright, but he's nowhere near as good as the barbarian/fighter in the party with overhand chop, and neither am I. Honestly, I don't really even contribute to fights anymore, though I think I'd perform better if my spells were able to affect both my AC and myself. I mean, I already have to invest chunks of my wealth into the AC, which is a depletion of personal resources most other PCs don't have to worry about.

So I've been a little frustrated with it. Even exceptionally good buffs like the Bite of... spells from the Spell Compendium, while nice, aren't as handy when they aren't effectively doubled. :/

Sovereign Court

Really? I always saw the 5ft range to be a huge problem for the owner of an AnCo, but maybe it was just the way my group played. Keeping them clustered like that was a area of effect death sentence.

Sovereign Court

Pathfinder Pawns Subscriber

Clustering is a non-issue when I use the Animal Companion as a mount, with the whole Mounted Combat feat tree. I just built a half-orc figther1/druid8 with the whole MC feat tree, and he's pretty scary (3d8+27 damage with no buffs on a charge with a lance +2 via spirited charge feat; took the fighter level for the extra feat and free access to martial weapon: lance).

So yeah, I *want* to stay within 5ft of my mount. With the old 3.5 wording, my mount could benefit from a cure spell I cast on myself! (both get affected by the same spell). That trick is also very useful when buffing myself via BS, CG and BE. Barskin, Stoneskin, etc.

Basically a mounted character is based on the ability to keep the mount alive. Without it, all your feats are useless.

Paladins get the same problem. With the new "unified rule for animal companions" their mount is also slightly weaker now, and these guys need the old share spell feature badly (btw, the old share spell feature was the only reason I ever casted a spell as a paladin... if it affects both the pally and his mount, it's worth it, otherwise forget it...)

Sovereign Court

Pathfinder Pawns Subscriber

Here's what I have so far...

MATTOKH THE GREY
Male half-orc Druid 8/Fighter 1
N Medium humanoid
Init +2 ; Senses Perception +7, Darkvision 60 ft.
==DEFENSE==
AC 10, touch 10, flat-footed 10
hp 69 (8d8+1d10+9)
Fort +9, Ref +2, Will +9
Defensive Abilities Mounted Combat, Resist Nature's Lure
==OFFENSE==
Spd 30 ft./x4
Melee Lance +3, Charging +18 3d8+27 20/x3
Melee +3 Lance +15/+10 1d8+9 20/x3
Melee Claws +11/+6 1d6+4 20/x2
Special Attacks Ride-By Attack, Spirited Charge, Trample
==STATISTICS==
Str 18, Dex 10, Con 12, Int 14, Wis 17, Cha 12
Base Atk +7, Cmb +11
Feats Armor Proficiency (Heavy) (PFB 82), Armor Proficiency (Light) (PFB 82), Armor Proficiency (Medium) (PFB 82), Mounted Combat (PFB 92), Natural Spell (PFB 92), Ride-By Attack (PFB 93), Shield Proficiency (PFB 94), Spirited Charge (PFB 95), Trample (PFB 96), Weapon Focus (PFB 97)
Skills Climb +10, Fly +11, Handle Animal +13, Heal +7, Knowledge (geography) +7, Knowledge (nature) +17, Perception +7, Ride +12, Spellcraft +7, Survival +17, Swim +15
Languages Common, Druidic, Giant, Orc, Sylvan
SQ Nature Bond, Trackless Step, Wild Shape, Druid Woodland Stride
Combat Gear Lance +2, Charging, +3 Lance, Claws
Other Gear Armor & Shield, Weapons
Class Abilities • FORBIDDEN SPELL ALIGNMENT - No spells with alignment descriptors are forbidden due to your alignment or your deity's alignment. (PFB 22, 23).
• DRUID BONUS LANGUAGES - A Druid automatically knows Druidic, and may choose Sylvan as a bonus language. (PFB 23).
• DRUID ORISONS - Druids can prepare a number of orisons, or 0-level spells, each day. They can cast these spells at will as a spell-like ability. 3 at 1st level, or 4 at any subsequent level. Orisons are treated like any other spell cast by the cleric in terms of duration and other variables based on level. Orisons cannot be channeled through spontaneous casting. (PFB 23).
• DRUID SPELLS - A druid casts divine spells, which are drawn from the druid spell list. Her alignment may restrict her from casting certain spells opposed to her moral or ethical beliefs; see Chaotic, Evil, Good, and Lawful Spells. A druid must choose and prepare her spells in advance. To prepare or cast a spell, the druid must have a Wisdom score equal to at least 10 + the spell level. The Difficulty Class for a saving throw against a druid’s spell is 10 + the spell level + the druid’s Wisdom modifier. (PFB 23).
• DRUID SPONTANEOUS CASTING - A druid can channel stored spell energy into summoning spells that she hasn’t prepared ahead of time. She can “lose” a prepared spell in order to cast any summon nature’s ally spell of the same level or lower. (PFB 23).
• DRUID WEAPONS AND ARMOR - Weapons: club, dagger, dart, quarterstaff, scimitar, scythe, sickle, shortspear, sling, and spear, all natural attacks (claw, bite, and so forth) of any form they assume with wild shape. Armor: light and medium armor (but no metal armor); shields (except tower shields) but must use only wooden ones. Prohibited armor or shields render the druid unable to cast druid spells or use supernatural or spell-like class abilities 24 hours. (PFB 23).
• NATURE BOND (Animal Companion - Wolf) - You have chosen an animal companion. The Wolf is detailed in MM 3.5 283. (PFB 24).
• NATURE SENSE - A druid gains a +2 bonus on Knowledge (nature) and Survival checks. (PFB 24).
• TRACKLESS STEP - Starting at 3rd level, a druid leaves no trail in natural surroundings and cannot be tracked. She may choose to leave a trail if so desired. (PFB 25).
• RESIST NATURE'S LURE - Starting at 4th level, a druid gains a +4 bonus on saving throws against the spell-like and supernatural abilities of fey. This bonus also applies to spells and effects that target plants, such as blight, entangle, spike growth, and warp wood. (PFB 25).
• WILD SHAPE - You can change into the form of a beast, as detailed in PFA2 16. (PFB 25-26).
• DRUID WOODLAND STRIDE - Starting at 2nd level, a you may move through any sort of undergrowth (such as natural thorns, briars, overgrown areas, and similar terrain) at her normal speed and without taking damage or suffering any other impairment. However, thorns, briars, and overgrown areas that have been magically manipulated to impede motion still affect her. (PFB 25).
• FIGHTER BONUS FEATS - At 1st level, and at every even level thereafter, a fighter gains a bonus feat in addition to those gained from normal advancement (meaning that the fighter gains a feat at every level). These bonus feats must be selected from either fighter bonus feats or combat feats (see the Feats chapter). (PFB 27).
• FIGHTER WEAPONS AND ARMOR - A fighter is proficient with all simple and martial weapons and with all armor (heavy, medium, and light) and shields (including tower shields). (PFB 27).
Traits • Devotee of the Green (Faith) - +1 to Knowledge (geography) and Knowledge (nature) checks. Knowledge (nature) is a class skill for you. (PFCT 4)
• Reactionary (Combat) - +2 Initiative. (PFCT 4)


The PHBII had a feat that allowed increasing the 5' range on the original 3.5e version of this ability.

I would see no problem with adding a feat (or make it a higher level animal companion ability?) to have spells affect both at once.
I like the idea of making it kick in automatically, but at a slightly higher level.

It's definitely powerful. However, it was that way before in 3.5e...

.

I personally don't think Animal Companions are all that weak anymore with the pathfinderization. Between the new advancement rules, and the new feats out there, they can become pretty good combat shakers.
Enlarging an already big animal, and then giving him Greater Overrun can be worth a LOT.. especially when you consider that the Druid has his own actions in combat on top of this.

Sovereign Court

Pathfinder Pawns Subscriber

Still... the "old" share spell should at least kick in around level 10 or 11... otherwise you're looking at doubling the amount of time you need to buff yourself (couple rounds for the druid, then couple rounds for the animal companion... I can tell you that in practice, it won't be feasible before the fight ends, and you'll end up not buffing the animal companion at all over time...)

Sovereign Court

Pathfinder Pawns Subscriber

The main thing that bugs me is the lack of a "animal companion enlarge" spell... right now, a druid can benefit from enlarge, but not his/her animal companion... this kinda sucks when you have the whole mounted combat feat tree (see my character above).

As is, you have to wait until you can cast "Animal Growth," which is a bloody 5th level spell, in comparison to "Enlarge Person," a 1st level buff... :(


Sorry to nitpick...
There's reasons for the spell level difference. You can get a Large sized animal companion fairly quickly (especially with the new animal companion rules). Animal Growth would make them Huge.

Enlarge person increases Str by +2 and reach/damage, at the cost of -2 Dex, -1 Attack and AC.

Animal Growth grants +8 Str, +4 Con, and +2 Nat armor along with the reach/damage.. at the cost of -2 Dex and attack/AC modifiers.

This is why Animal Growth is 4 spell levels higher.

Also, keep in mind that the Druid doesn't even get Enlarge Person, so it's not really an option normally (unless he grabs a level of wizard or sorcerer I guess).
The Share Spells entry says "any spell .. she casts upon herself", so you have to be able to cast Enlarge Person for it to affect your Animal Companion, even in 3.5e.

.

*Edit*
I guess you could ask your DM to research a lower level animal growth spell, that mimics the Enlarge Person better. Making it work only on animals (preventing super big ogres and the like), and limiting it to not increasing anything past Large (so Large is the biggest you can have with this 1st level spell), would keep it in line.

Sovereign Court

Pathfinder Pawns Subscriber
Kaisoku wrote:

Sorry to nitpick...

There's reasons for the spell level difference. You can get a Large sized animal companion fairly quickly (especially with the new animal companion rules). Animal Growth would make them Huge.

Yes, and if my druid is enlarged to Large size, he then needs a Huge mount to carry him, as I believe the rule for mounts is that they must be at least one size bigger...

Kaisoku wrote:
Enlarge person increases Str by +2 and reach/damage, at the cost of -2 Dex, -1 Attack and AC.

Reach and greater damage is a huge advantage, especially with the ride-by-attack feat...

Kaisoku wrote:

Animal Growth grants +8 Str, +4 Con, and +2 Nat armor along with the reach/damage.. at the cost of -2 Dex and attack/AC modifiers.

This is why Animal Growth is 4 spell levels higher.

Also, keep in mind that the Druid doesn't even get Enlarge Person, so it's not really an option normally (unless he grabs a level of wizard or sorcerer I guess).
The Share Spells entry says "any spell .. she casts upon herself", so you have to be able to cast Enlarge Person for it to affect your Animal Companion, even in 3.5e.

The druid cannot cast enlarge on himself, I agree, but via plant shape, there are a variety of humanoid-shaped large-size plant creatures which can wield weapons (i.e. allowing the druid to effectively "enlarge" himself while keeping his lance; drop lance, wild shape in large plant, grabs lance) If only wild shape could be applied to the animal companion!!! :)

Sovereign Court

purple dragon knight wrote:


The druid cannot cast enlarge on himself, I agree, but via plant shape, there are a variety of humanoid-shaped large-size plant creatures which can wield weapons (i.e. allowing the druid to effectively "enlarge" himself while keeping his lance; drop lance, wild shape in large plant, grabs lance) If only wild shape could be applied to the animal companion!!! :)

Yes but by the time he can do that he can cast animal growth can't he? If so what is the problem?

Sovereign Court

Pathfinder Pawns Subscriber
lastknightleft wrote:
purple dragon knight wrote:


The druid cannot cast enlarge on himself, I agree, but via plant shape, there are a variety of humanoid-shaped large-size plant creatures which can wield weapons (i.e. allowing the druid to effectively "enlarge" himself while keeping his lance; drop lance, wild shape in large plant, grabs lance) If only wild shape could be applied to the animal companion!!! :)
Yes but by the time he can do that he can cast animal growth can't he? If so what is the problem?

O_o

Lastknightleft... you are wise in the ways of the force! :)

(although if Share Spells would have its original 3.5 wording... and if druid would have "Enlarge Person" on his list... well... yeah... it "could" be considered a tad broken then... :P)

Sovereign Court

Pathfinder Pawns Subscriber

Thanks to everyone who contributed to this thread. I really appreciate it and now feel solid running/playing a PRPG druid.

Cheers!

Sovereign Court

Purple Dragon Knight wrote:

O_o

Lastknightleft... you are wise in the ways of the force! :)

Thanks, no one has ever said that of me before :D

Sovereign Court

Pathfinder Pawns Subscriber

Now I can't wait to level up so as to use the Animal Growth and Plant Shape II combo... :P

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