So, has anyone's group had a party member get turned into a werebear by the Harrow Deck of Many Things? It happened to two of the people in my group, and the werebear template seems pretty broken overall. How have other people handled this?
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Have you seen how it works?
The PC doesn't have control over the change... (unless they take a feat from some book, which I can't remember right now.)
It is only as powerful as you let it be. Not to mention, the party is high level at that point anyways... that template should not really make a huge difference in the game overall.
Have you seen how it works?
The PC doesn't have control over the change... (unless they take a feat from some book, which I can't remember right now.)
It is only as powerful as you let it be. Not to mention, the party is high level at that point anyways... that template should not really make a huge difference in the game overall.
You are seriously underestimating what becoming a werebear does for a character. Especially a monk.
+16 str, +8 con, +2 wis, DR 10/silver, the brown bear's hit dice on top of their own, etc, etc.And the deck doesn't cause an affliction. It makes the person the naturally occuring type, so they have automatic control over their change.
I'm a little rusty on the functioning of lycanthrope in 3.5, but would I be correct in believing that the characters' alignment just both shifted permanently to LG?
Edit:
I just checked PF #12, and the Harrow deck card does say affected characters become afflicted as if they had 'inherited' the condition with regard to attempts to cure it.
Inherited, as in getting it from your parents. Not afflicted.
Of course, any possible confusion could have been avoided if they used the terms used in the Monster Manual.
What are the in game differences between afflicted and natural lycanthropes. More specifically, can an afflicted lycanthrope change back and forth from a human to animal at will or no?
What are the in game differences between afflicted and natural lycanthropes. More specifically, can an afflicted lycanthrope change back and forth from a human to animal at will or no?
An afflicted lycanthrope isn't typically aware of their situation for a while until certain things happen. At that point, they can get a feat that will allow them to control the change, though the first time they choose to change their alignment changes. They also have less DR.
A natural lycanthrope is aware of their situation, pretty much has to have the alignment of their type, have more DR and can control their change at will.Both types of werebear have massive stat boosts, additions to their BAB, skill points and feats and various and sundry other advantages.
I'm a little rusty on the functioning of lycanthrope in 3.5, but would I be correct in believing that the characters' alignment just both shifted permanently to LG?
Edit:
I just checked PF #12, and the Harrow deck card does say affected characters become afflicted as if they had 'inherited' the condition with regard to attempts to cure it.
Inherited, as in getting it from your parents. Not afflicted.
Of course, any possible confusion could have been avoided if they used the terms used in the Monster Manual.
"The Bear: The character gains the lycanthrope template, becoming a werebear. This lycanthropy is considered to be inherited for the purposes of curing the curse."
Quote taken directly from Crown of Fangs ... Paizo never did say afflicted in the write up.
Sorry if I muddled that sentence; late at night here, and I had just been reading both Crown of Fangs and the Monster Manual entry with the result that I seem to have imagined the 'afflicted' into the description. :(
I did get the LG bit right, yes?
Not your fault, Charles ... the mention of afflicted slipped in much earlier in the discussion, I was just clarifying what it actually said in the Deck :)
And yup, it does say always Lawful Good in the MM, so whoever drew it not only gets the lycanthropy as if they were born with it (that's what hereditary means I believe) they get an alignment shift to lawful good if they weren't there before :)
Sorry if I muddled that sentence; late at night here, and I had just been reading both Crown of Fangs and the Monster Manual entry with the result that I seem to have imagined the 'afflicted' into the description. :(
I did get the LG bit right, yes?
Not your fault, Charles ... the mention of afflicted slipped in much earlier in the discussion, I was just clarifying what it actually said in the Deck :)
And yup, it does say always Lawful Good in the MM, so whoever drew it not only gets the lycanthropy as if they were born with it (that's what hereditary means I believe) they get an alignment shift to lawful good if they weren't there before :)
The first two posts after my original both assumed the cards bestowed the afflicted type.
Anyway, two people got this in my game. The monk was already LG, the CN cleric of Gorum is having some issues becoming LG though. Though it did stop him from doing some really stupid stuff in the name of Gorum that almost certainly would have resulted in his demise.
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The first two posts after my original both assumed the cards bestowed the afflicted type.
Well, I just said if it was afflicted, then it's not that great.
For a monk, I agree that this is a terrific bonus. For a cleric, it's not quite as good; (a) you can't use verbal components in hybrid form, and (b) since you're effectively adding 9 levels (6 HD, +3 LA) to your character, you won't be advancing in your spellcasting for a long, long time...
As the DM, you don't HAVE to do anything. You can play this however you want.
The card is the "Bear". You could tell them that they can turn into only a bear form and not a hybrid form, and when they are in "bear" form, they are a "bear" and have a tenous link to the human world and things humans care for. Thus, they cannot use spells or abilities that are based in a human mentality. This prevent the bear from using some things such as stunning fist or other Ki powers, maybe flurry of blows, etc.
It also helps fix the alignment issue (which I think is kind of silly anyway... I mean, why is a lycanthrope any particular alignment? Even typically evil ones, well, they could just be considered savage predators, I don't think they need to be considered evil). When they are possessed by the "bear", they could be LG, but when they are in human form, they can be whatever alignment they have.
Have you seen how it works?
The PC doesn't have control over the change... (unless they take a feat from some book, which I can't remember right now.)
It is only as powerful as you let it be. Not to mention, the party is high level at that point anyways... that template should not really make a huge difference in the game overall.You are seriously underestimating what becoming a werebear does for a character. Especially a monk.
+16 str, +8 con, +2 wis, DR 10/silver, the brown bear's hit dice on top of their own, etc, etc.
And the deck doesn't cause an affliction. It makes the person the naturally occuring type, so they have automatic control over their change.
How the heck are you getting +16 Str and +8 Con?
The ability adjustment is +2 Wis, -2 Cha, And +2 Str and Con in hybrid and animal form.
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its from 5 years ago, maybe the Werebear rules were different in 3.5?
i don't have any of the 3.5 books anymore so i can't say for sure:)
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The lycanthrope rules were VERY different in 3.5. In Pathfinder, lycanthropes are mostly playable. In 3.5, they came with absurdly high level adjustments but gave massive stat boosts, effectively adding the strength of the creature to your base.