I always envied the classes that got some autododge; man that was a hyper power and only certain super bad warriors get it; sheesh.
|
I always envied the classes that got some autododge; man that was a hyper power and only certain super bad warriors get it; sheesh.
In Robotech Sentinels, the sabercycle style had an autoparry. It didn't use an attack, could be used as a reaction, and you could parry with a lasersword that had unllimited MDC. Nothing could touch you except missles, which you could just shoot down. It had autododge too.
wow; that is pretty tuff.
I have seen a lot of them in second hand stores cheap; bought a few I was missing.; ok; I am missing a lot; but bought a few I liked hehe
Always wanted to try RIFT, but could never find a group. Since the PDF War started, I'm looking at the rulebooks again. Thanks all for some of your comments.
Imagine how many more books he'd sell if he did a d20 conversion...WOW...That's not going to happen, considering what went on when Primal Order was published.
Primal Order was done by the folks over at Palladium? ~thinks~ Hmmmmnnnnnnnnn...... I think I have that at home.
As for Rifts, I love the setting. I have a lot of the Rifts and Palladium fantasy books. The Rifter magazine has a lot of good stuff too. Nightbane is just such a kick ass setting and I want to try out their super hero books sometime. ~grins at CourtFool~ Yes, yes! I also plan on picking up the Hero books sometime or another, but let me just finish up this collection!
P.S. - Did I mention how cool the Nightbane setting is?
I always envied the classes that got some autododge; man that was a hyper power and only certain super bad warriors get it; sheesh.In Robotech Sentinels, the sabercycle style had an autoparry. It didn't use an attack, could be used as a reaction, and you could parry with a lasersword that had unllimited MDC. Nothing could touch you except missles, which you could just shoot down. It had autododge too.
Saber cyclones were awesome!
Their really tough defense options were offset by their relatively low damage output, and it was almost all melee oriented. They weren't untouchable, even with autododge, you still had to beat the attack rolls. But it did make them pretty dang durable! A Veritech Alpha or a Hovertank would still mop the floor with them.
IMHO, the Palladium games are fun games. To a certain extent, the Rifts setting was a bit unballanced and the Palladium rules in and of themselves could use an overhaul. However, they are not the worse setting that I have played. Not by a long shot. The players and GM just need to remember Rule 0 of playing a game as well as going in with the intention of having fun, then things should be ok.
I love RIFTS.
It was the second rpg I was ever introduced to. I think the system is pretty cool, but can be a problem if you have a party that runs the gamut from a rogue scholar to a dragon hatchling.
One thing I never really had an issue with though, was MDC vs SDC. I always figured that if you aren't wearing some MDC body armor and you try and go head to head with a Coalition SAMAS (coolest power armor ever!), you're asking to be turned into a bloody stain on the wall.
Oh, I want to marry Nightbane and have it's children.
HEHE that had me LOL!
I have played Rifts since it's creation and I have to say that the rules are not broken.
The rules are NOT DnD or D20 or even point based they are a different set of rules and as such are not broken. The combat is real simple as is the skill checks. The characters are real balanced in reality especially since most character creation sessions are done with all players there in one room.
The above being said of course one must be ready to change their mindset when it comes to playing a game of rifts. The Character creation session can be daunting to say the least but I have found that some of the people I have introduced to the game have had an easier time if they had no previous DnD or D20 experience.
It also requires an openess to a variety of optional rules that are available...I.E Insanities and the like.
For a first timer I would recommend staying with the core book and also talk to all of the players about what kind of game every ne wants to play since that will direct the types of characters allowed in the game.
All this being said however I have found all systems to be broken but workable. It is just a matter of what you are willing to work with.
Well, it has been my experience that some people think all rpgs are broken in one way or another as they have not yet found the perfect game, I am not one of them, but I have heard enough of their perspetives to say I can't dissagree with them either. No game is perfect so that could be considered broken.
I hope if a game gets started it is not relegated to the basic book; there are so much wealth of coolness available in other books and have had my eye on a few races and classes to play since I have done the base stuff over and over and over; some freshness would be cool. dont know why anyone would want to be just a cookie cutter copy; less books means more chance of players wanting to play the same thing. Like, juicers are cool; but limited lifespan.
Creating (or attempting to create) a character in Rifts turned me off to the thing from the get-go, and I don't think I gave the gameplay a very fair shake after that.
I've read how Siembieda refused/refuses to use a computer-based markup program, doing it all by hand, and that really shows in the complete and utter disorganization of the book (Rifts Ultimate Edition is what we picked up copies of) frustrated me to the point of anger.
The GM who attempted to run the game for us also didn't segregate character classes - we had a Glitter Boy, a robot-pilot, a crazy, a scholar and one of those dog things.
The first of the only two sessions we played quickly degenerated, and the second session ended early.
If professionals were hired to convert the core rulebook into a clear, coherent, usable tome, and guidelines were established about maintaining some kind of balance amongst the party, I believe I could deal with a wonky system with broken rules - I'd just like to be able to find those rules semi-quickly.
And there's a LOT of rules/stats. Oy.
Palladium has been extremely sensitive (as you've posted regarding their reaction to conversion sites) and would probably go out of business before they did anything to "help" WotC (and d20 is part of WotC).
...and a decade later, they nearly did (go out of business), curiously, this happened by the time there was fan talk about the interest in a "Rifts d20", and even more curiously this was the time when our favorite evil empire was still in a stage of predatory expansionism.
While I'm not accusing wizards of seducing Siembieda's people into inducing the fraud that nearly broke Palladium years ago (I mean, such extremes would be plain preposterous) timing was awfully convenient, and supervillains tend to get accused of every crime that takes place during their rampages, even if they weren't even there when they took place.
|
Rifts will always have a fond place in my heart. Next to D&D 2E Robotech was the game that introduced me to this hobby. That being said the game is clunky disorganized mess of a houseruled 1ED D&D ruleset.
-Rules either contradict each other or are copy and pasted from other books even if the original source was incorrect.
-No really balance between classess. for some this is a bonus for myself it's good and bad. Good because sometimes you get tired of playing in rpgs were everything is balanced against everything else. Bad because they allowed everything including the kitchen sink twice and did not check to see if it would mesh well or overshadow stuff in the game. Certain classes such as a Glitter boy, Cosmo Knight are just too broken and can wreck a game.
-The damage values of the robots and power armors are all wonky and screwed up imo. Even with suspension of disbelief it's hard to ignore the fact that a rifle does more damage then a turret on a giant robot. I understand that was done to give characters a fighting chance yet the game MDC system is promted as being dangerous. The only freelancer that ever wrote proper damage values was CJ Carella and his stuff is considered "broken" not because it is but because he made robots,vehicles and power armor that acutally had damged that scaled properly.
-A game that badly needs a new edition. The system is showing it's age badly. If any system that cries out for an update it's the Palladium sysyem. Yet they refuse to do so saying that it would make older books obosolete. While a valid point a new systenm could either be backwards compitable or include a conversion appendix. It's the system that everyone likes the settings but hate the rules
-Rifts Ultimate editon the closest the company has every done to an update has a very rushed, hurried feel to it. No index stuff copy and pasted yet again a book that should have been a year indevelopment was rushed out in what was it 4-5 months.
I
t is a fun game just be prepared for a few hedaches and houseruling and while I recommend getting the Rifts ultiamte Edition. It is the most curretn ruleset abd the old Rifts Main book maybe out of print.
~grins~ Yea, those are some VERY valid issues. OTOH, the fluff is usually top notch. I too would live to see an updated rules system that has been looked over completely and done right.
Certain classes such as a Glitter boy, Cosmo Knight are just too broken and can wreck a game.
You have a slew of great points.... I played rifts obsessively through high school. In fact my longest running campaign is a rifts campaign and I can remember all of the wacky nuances of the system. Guys taking a battery of athletic skills that had crazy modifiers for one...everyone trying to unload a full clip.... that crazy bomber in Rifts mercenaries that my players insisted on trying to rob...
The complaints about classes being broken always drove me crazy. For the majority of the time we played one of my friends always played a Glitter Boy. The rest of the party was composed of a Wilderness Scout, a Dog Boy, an Operator, a Rogue Scholar, and a Temporal Wizard. At no point in time during the three or so years we played did anyone ever complain about the Glitter Boy. The Glitter Boy was too busy getting hammered every combat to hog any glory. He was slow as hell and couldn't out run the fast attack vehicles the other party members relied on and whenever we got into a fight he was always the target taking a world of damage while the other party members...rescued the girl, grabbed the artifact, or captured the loot.
If the GM sets the campaign up right there is little reason for a character class to be broken. If we were attacked there would be opponents to occupy and challenge each of the PCs. The key thing with Rifts is to tailor the combat toward the party. You have to build an encounter with enough avenues to entertain all. The Glitterboy lays out too much damage....well have a couple Abolishers try to take him down. The Wilderness scout and the Rogue scholar are bored with shooting their pistols at the Abolisher..... well have the Coalition comander flee the scene on a Sky Cycle so they can chase him on there hoverbikes.... and so on and so forth.
The complaints about classes being broken always drove me crazy.
...
If the GM sets the campaign up right there is little reason for a character class to be broken.
...
The key thing with Rifts is to tailor the combat toward the party. You have to build an encounter with enough avenues to entertain all.
I'd call it more "unbalanced" than "broken" (but that's not to say I wouldn't call it broken). There's no such thing as "perfect" balance, and it's not exactly desired, either. That said, SOME internal balance is desired, and from the standpoint of both a GM and a player, sadly, RIFTS is a gigantic pain in the ass that for me, is easier to ignore.
Further, it's not just the OCC/RCC balance against each other - a lot of it is the layout of the books (utter disarray and disorder), the contradictory rules, and the power creep that extends itself to everything. Multi-MDC dealing concealable handguns?
I *WANT* to like RIFTS. I think the "setting" is fantastic, but the amount of prep work to get things running smoothly with a disparate power-level group? We already have full-time jobs.
I love RIFTS & have since it first came out. Sure there are issues with balance but that's delt with with restrictions. I also will convert to SDC the next time I run it. One of my DMs won't run it because he believes it's broken even though he likes BtS & Palladium Fantasy 2nd.I think he main problem is he wants a game that covers ALL rule callings he may have to deal with..he's admitted as such.Plus he doesn't like some of the super powerful OCCs in the game (most are in supplements like Dimensional books). All has to do is not allow them & keep it core. That & convert to SDC. I'd love to get him & the group to play in RIFTS for 6 months with me GMing. I'm not great..it's been a decade or so since I ran any game, but I think I could pull it off.
I *WANT* to like RIFTS. I think the "setting" is fantastic, but the amount of prep work to get things running smoothly with a disparate power-level group? We already have full-time jobs.
I think you can still love it if you pursue Rifts correctly. It is a matter of prep work but it doesn't have to be overwhelming. When you set up the campaign you have to develop something of a unified theme. Let's be honest, the Rifts world is vast. There are dimensional books, world books, blah blah books all with their own unique choices. This can in a way be a bad thing.
Just like you wouldn't build a d&d party with three CE Drow and two LG Elves, you have to build a proper Rifts party. I would typically open a couple of the books for character options. Otherwise we'd have some bizarre mismatch of ethnicities all wielding different abilities which should prove to be complimentary but usually doesn't.
We had a great campaign where the player characters were a group of city rat like characters causing mayhem and destruction in a ruined Coalition Hive City populated by mercenaries and d-bee survivors. The campaign focused on the PCs running their own gang in Necromunda style adventures. If one of the players decided he wanted to be a member of the New Navy and pilot a fighter jet.....it wouldn't have made sense. No one was piloting massive robots in the ruined sprawl so 100 M.D.C. suits of personal armor and 4d6 damage wilks rifles were the norm.
We always had a beginning theme. Whether we were ex-Coalition soldiers trying to free Atlantean slaves or a band of cyber knights trying to link up with elements of the knightly orders in England, there was something to unify the characters and regulate their character choices.
I don't think you can just point at the library of 30 world books and say, "go at it!" and expect to get a party that is going to function. Someone is gonna wanna be a Russian Borg, and someone is gonna wanna be a Coalition Soldier, and someone is gonna wanna be an elven Druid. By the time the character classes are rolled up everyone will be fighting each other.....no need to make an adventure.
if you set your campaign up around a certain corner of the world you don't have to worry about balance. You're drawing off one or two setting books. I think most people try to play Rifts with some sort of League of Nations party that jet sets across the world and back again. I think that's where the majority of problems arise.
|
|
Do not get m wrong it is a fun game. Problem is for the longest time none of the issue with the rules were ever addressed. Some have but for the most part the attituide of the company was and still is that the rules are fine and a good GM can just fix them on their own. I do not mid doing it yet in all fairness I can see why it is a problem for some. So many other system exist on the ,market that can be used without the headaches. If a person who is interested and likes to houserule and modify systems than the game is for you. If you want games that have a rule for everything or just not in the mood to tinker or houserule then Rifts and the Palladium system in general are not for you.
|
|
I'd call it more "unbalanced" than "broken" (but that's not to say I wouldn't call it broken). There's no such thing as "perfect" balance, and it's not exactly desired, either. That said, SOME internal balance is desired, and from the standpoint of both a GM and a player, sadly, RIFTS is a gigantic pain in the ass that for me, is easier to ignore.
That I think is the core problem with some wanting to get into the game. It's not some much that they want perfect balance is that they have little balance. They are finally toning that down again but imo the damage has been done. Too little way too late.
Further, it's not just the OCC/RCC balance against each other - a lot of it is the layout of the books (utter disarray and disorder), the contradictory rules, and the power creep that extends itself to everything. Multi-MDC dealing concealable handguns?
Agreed on all points Having classes different from another is one thing. Depending on what classes the pc take either they can dominate the game or they can do nothing. And the the damage scaling between hand weapons and vehicle mounted weapons is just silly. A guy in suit of light armor with a rifle does more damage then the big tank. Hard to ignore.
I *WANT* to like RIFTS. I think the "setting" is fantastic, but the amount of prep work to get things running smoothly with a disparate power-level group? We already have full-time jobs.
I like the game still buy books for it but if I do ever run it I will have to houserule a lot of it and that is what keeps me from running it. I houserule every game but for Rifts it requires too muchtime and effort. One that I just do not feel like doing.
|
|
~grins~ Yea, those are some VERY valid issues. OTOH, the fluff is usually top notch. I too would live to see an updated rules system that has been looked over completely and done right.
The issues are not major ones but need to be addressed. They could do a new version if they wanted to. Why they do not is something only Palladium and Kevin Seimbeda can answer.
The biggest problem I've had with RIFTS, in general, is equipment churn. You're going to be constantly looking for new gear because frankly, any firefight that lasts more than three rounds is going to leave someone nearly without armor. And yes, the autocannon on an attack helicopter should do more damage than a personal weapon, but they usually do not. Even looting the dead, well, you had to pretty much annihilate their armor to kill them, so all you're left with are scraps, and earning money isn't easy. Here's the thing: In most RPGs, your personal equipment is fairly hard to break or people aren't going to focus on breaking it. In RIFTS, this will happen ALL THE TIME. In games where there is a high turnover of gear, usually it's not hard to find more. In Rifts, there's good odds that replacement gear will be extremely difficult to come by. Now, there's a lot of great skill and roleplaying opportunities there. But it can also be really frustrating. "Yes, I saved for three months to get a new set of armor." (two fights later) "Well, need new armor again."
~grins~ Yea, those are some VERY valid issues. OTOH, the fluff is usually top notch. I too would live to see an updated rules system that has been looked over completely and done right.The issues are not major ones but need to be addressed. They could do a new version if they wanted to. Why they do not is something only Palladium and Kevin Seimbeda can answer.
I subscribe to the Palladium newsletter and I have to say, they really do need to run a tighter ship over there. They announce books way, way, way in advance, even putting them in catalogs, though the book eventually gets moved elsewhere in the series or outright canceled. Right now, one of their new Robotech books, UEEF Marines or something like that, was supposed to be out in early October, and they've had the same message about it being ready to be sent to the editor since August. Finally they announced that it was being sent to Harmony Gold and it should be out 1st Quarter of 2010, I believe. It's still listed as being "120-192" pages. Well, that's a lot of range, and if they don't know how long it's gonna be yet, that kind of makes a person wonder.
I've been a long time supporter of Palladium and I enjoy a lot of their products despite their difficulties, but it seems like the planning aspect of things is really not their strong suit.
And I entirely agree about the "stuff they corrected or list as errata but still reprint the wrong info in later books" note.