Bonus spells

[denaekall]

A question I have run into involves low level spellcasters and the bonus spells they gain for having a high score in their magic related stat.

At first level, Bards gain no level 1 spells but can still cast some if they have bonus level 1 spells for having a high charisma.

Can this be done with the higher level spell slots?

EX: that same Bard has a Charisma score of 20, giving him 2 bonus first level spells and a single bonus spell of levels 2-5. Could they use these bonus spells (the ones of level 2-5) to cast his level 1 spells (as players can use higher level slots to cast lower level spells as per the rules)?

In 3.5 this was a negative and was marked as so by having a "-" in the levels of spells you could not access and a "0" in spell levels you could access if you had bonus spells. Pathfinder does not mark it as such.

Just looking for confirmation. Thanks.

On a playtesting note, my group has gone ahead and allowed the use of more spells (thus the Cha 20 Bard can cast 6 level 1 spells per day rather than 2) and it has not caused any problems so far. In fact it has made the spellcasting classes more enticing for low level games.

[Majuba]

denaekall wrote:

A question I have run into involves low level spellcasters and the bonus spells they gain for having a high score in their magic related stat.

At first level, Bards gain no level 1 spells but can still cast some if they have bonus level 1 spells for having a high charisma.

Can this be done with the higher level spell slots?

I'm quite sure the answer here would be a "No" officially. It is an interesting house rule though. Just perhaps a bit too much for one level of a class.

[DM_Blake]

Hey, that might almost make bards useful...

Seriously though, the Pathfinder bard I am looking at gets one 1st level spell per day at first level. Per the Beta .pdf I donloaded most recently.

Do we have different versions?

Given that the version I see never uses 0 for any level of bard spells, the question becomes moot.

At level 1 he gets 1 spell + CHA mod.
At level 4 he gets 1 2nd level spell + CHA mod.
Etc.

I might consider allowing the bonus spells/day of levels you can't cast to be applied to levels you can cast, but I think the wizard, sorcerer, and cleric got all the level 1 laser beams they need with school powers, bloodlines, and domain powers.

Druids and bards need a little help, since druids have nothing at level 1 but a lousy sling, and bards, well, they're bards. They're not primary spellcasters, and they have a reasonable selection of melee and ranged weapons to use, though they are still miserable at low levels.

However, it doesn't seem prudent to make a mechanic that applies only to 2 or the 5 classes that start with spells, so I'm likely to look elsewhere for help for these two classes.

[Ross Byers]

Majuba wrote:

I'm quite sure the answer here would be a "No" officially. It is an interesting house rule though. Just perhaps a bit too much for one level of a class.

The official answer in 3.5 was 'No'. I allowed it for years as a house rule to help 1st level spellcasters suck less, but Pathfinder gives them plenty of juice, so I feel the house rule to be unnecessary now.

[denaekall]

No, we have the same Beta version. I did not have the book in front of me at the time and was going off of memory and apparently was not remembering Pathfinder.

Thanks for the help. Personally, I do not think it breaks the balance yet, but I have yet to see this (house) ruling used for Clerics, Sorcerers, or Wizards. Only with Bards and Druids. We shall see (I hope) in a few hours when my normal game is held.

Thanks again.

PATHFINDER RULES!!!!

[Baramay]

We have playtested the adding your constitution score to hp. Adding the additional spells helps all spell casters quite a bit, as there are more encounters usually. Also the person who invests heavily (point buy) in their primary spell casting ability gets a little more in return to compensate for ability deficiencies elsewhere.