Bladesinger Prestige class

[tasslehoff220]

I have a player in my pathfinder game who wants to play a bladesinger. I have no problem with this as I would like to see how more prestige classes shold look in pathfinder. Well we are almost at 6th level and he wants to take it at 7th level. Can anyone give me suggestions for how to make it pathfinder? It seems to me it should be a little stronger. Ideas I had were increasing the number of blade song free spells per day or giving it some other abilitiy. I have been examining eldritch knight and duelist for comparisons. Thanks in advance for any suggestions or help.

[WotC's Nightmare]

Personally, I would use the 3.0 version of the bladesinger and up the hit dice to d10. This version can be found in Tome and Blood and Races of Faerun. If that's not enough, it at least gives you a good place to start from.

[Balor]

In our games, we have always required that bladesingers craft their own weapon, as part of the bonding/mastery of that one particular weapon. With the Arcane Bond ability, this seems like a natural extension. I would also think about adding something such as the paladin's ability to enhance their weapon, or take a look at the kensai's ability to "imbue" his chosen weapon. If you take the kensai ability, I might tone down other abilities, though.

[tasslehoff220]

Here is what I have for a pathfinder Bladesinger so far with an explaination for changes at teh botton. Any comments/ suggestions would be appreciated:

Pathfinder Bladesinger

Prereqs:

Elf or half elf

BAB +5

Skills:
Acrobatics: 2
Perform Sing: 2
Perform Dance: 2
Spellcraft: 2

Feats:
Combat casting, Combat expertise, Dodge, Weapon Focus (Long Sword, rapier, or elven Thinblade)

Class Skills: Acrobatics, Knowledge Arcana, Perform, Spellcraft

Good Saves: Ref, Wil
Hit die: 1d10
Full BAB

Level

1 +1 Caster level, Bladesong style (The bladesinger gets his int bonus as a dadge bonus added to his AC up to his bladesinger level as long as he is wearing no armor heavier than light, has a long sword, rapier, or thin blade in one hand and nothing in the other), Improved Dodge (The bladesinger always adds his dodge bonus from the dodge feat to his AC unless caught flatfooted, he no longer needs to spend an immediate action)

2 Lesser Spellsong (The bladesinger can always take 10 to cast defensively)

3 +1 Caster level

4 Song of Celerity 2nd (when he take a full attack action the bladesinger can cast 1 spell of second level or lower as a immediate action, he can use this ability a number of times per day equal to his bladesinger level)

5 +1 Caster level

6 Greater Spellsong (The bladesinger ignores arcane spell failure in light armor)

7 +1 Caster level

8 Song of Celerity 4th (The bladesinger's song of celerity power can now be used on spells of 4th level or lower)

9 +1 Caster level

10 Song of Fury (The bladesinger can take an extra attack at his highest bonus with all his attacks for 1 round at -2)

This is very similar to the 3.5 blade singer, the basic differences are the number of times per day that it can use its song of celerity and its improved dodge power. I gave it improved dodge because I didn't want using dodge to interfere with its song of celerity. I upper the number of uses on its song of celerity because I was comparing this to the 10th level eldritch knight's ability to cast a quickened spell every time it crits. Comparing this version of the class to the eldritch knight it has the same BAB/hit die, steeper prereqs (I always hated combat casting), and 4 less levels of casting. The eldritch knight gets spell critical and 3 feats. The Bladesinger's song of celerity seems on par with spell critical. Song of fury, greater and lesser spell song seem about on par with the 3 feats. Improved dodge seems on par with diverse training. So that leaves Blade song style. Is this equivalent to 4 casting levels? I would say its equivalent to 2 caster levels (1 higher level of spells) so I would need 1 more ability. Any suggestions for the ability? Have I made song of celerity too good? Should it have more/less uses? What do you think of improved dodge? If I were to add another ability I would like ti to be called "Song of X" I was debating making bladesinger levels stack with bard levels for the bardic ability to inspire courage, or to let a bardic bladesinger start his bardic music as a free action but I was afraid this would encourage the class to be taken out of bard instead of wizard as was I belive the original intent (elves have favored class wizard, and are all proficient in long swords and rapiers). As stated before, any comments and suggestions would be appreciated.

[Mortagon]

tasslehoff220 wrote:

Here is what I have for a pathfinder Bladesinger so far with an explaination for changes at teh botton. Any comments/ suggestions would be appreciated:

Pathfinder Bladesinger

Prereqs:

Elf or half elf

BAB +5

Skills:
Acrobatics: 2
Perform Sing: 2
Perform Dance: 2
Spellcraft: 2

Feats:
Combat casting, Combat expertise, Dodge, Weapon Focus (Long Sword, rapier, or elven Thinblade)

Class Skills: Acrobatics, Knowledge Arcana, Perform, Spellcraft

Good Saves: Ref, Wil
Hit die: 1d10
Full BAB

Level

1 +1 Caster level, Bladesong style (The bladesinger gets his int bonus as a dadge bonus added to his AC up to his bladesinger level as long as he is wearing no armor heavier than light, has a long sword, rapier, or thin blade in one hand and nothing in the other), Improved Dodge (The bladesinger always adds his dodge bonus from the dodge feat to his AC unless caught flatfooted, he no longer needs to spend an immediate action)

2 Lesser Spellsong (The bladesinger can always take 10 to cast defensively)

3 +1 Caster level

4 Song of Celerity 2nd (when he take a full attack action the bladesinger can cast 1 spell of second level or lower as a immediate action, he can use this ability a number of times per day equal to his bladesinger level)

5 +1 Caster level

6 Greater Spellsong (The bladesinger ignores arcane spell failure in light armor)

7 +1 Caster level

8 Song of Celerity 4th (The bladesinger's song of celerity power can now be used on spells of 4th level or lower)

9 +1 Caster level

10 Song of Fury (The bladesinger can take an extra attack at his highest bonus with all his attacks for 1 round at -2)

This is very similar to the 3.5 blade singer, the basic differences are the number of times per day that it can use its song of celerity and its improved dodge power. I gave it improved dodge because I didn't want using dodge to interfere with its song of celerity. I upper the number of uses on its song of celerity because I was comparing this to the 10th level eldritch...

I would drop perform sing as a requirement, I think the term "singer" in the word Bladesinger refers to the singing noise he makes with his sword, not that he actually sings (can't seem to remember this from any of the novels or lore I have read.)

I would drop the Improved dodge ability at 1st level, it just seems tacked on.

I think song of Celerity should be a swift action, Immediate action seems to strong.

Also the song of fury? Do you have to make a full attack action to gain the extra attack or would you get it when you make a standard attack as well? You could always allow the bladesinger to make an extra attack each round as a swift action, but with a -2 penalty.

Otherwise this looks good.

[tasslehoff220]

Mortagon wrote:

I would drop perform sing as a requirement, I think the term "singer" in the word Bladesinger refers to the singing noise he makes with his sword, not that he actually sings (can't seem to remember this from any of the novels or lore I have read.)

I would drop the Improved dodge ability at 1st level, it just seems tacked on.

I think song of Celerity should be a swift action, Immediate action seems to strong.

Also the song of fury? Do you have to make a full attack action to gain the extra attack or would you get it when you make a standard attack as well? You could always allow the bladesinger to make an extra attack each round as a swift action, but with a -2 penalty.

Otherwise this looks good.

Thanks for the imput. The ranks in perform sing is actually a throwback to the 3.5 version which had that as a prereq. Although I really like the way you described thing singing of the sword, I always imagined the mid swing castings to be sung literally.

Improved dodge is tacked on somewhat. The reason is you are only allowed one swift action per round and I didn't want one of the prerequisites (dodge, which must be activated as a swift action) to be unusable with the class's main ability (song of celerity).

Song of celerity was mean to be a swift rather than an immediate action. That was me confusing the terms. Song of fury was meant to only be used as part of a full attack. I should have been more specific.

[Mortagon]

Tasselhoff wrote:

Improved dodge is tacked on somewhat. The reason is you are only allowed one swift action per round and I didn't want one of the prerequisites (dodge, which must be activated as a swift action) to be unusable with the class's main ability (song of celerity).

OK I can see why you added it, then, but perhaps the best would just be to drop the dodge requirement altogether and replace it with another feat, like f.ex. Arcane strike.

[tasslehoff220]

Mortagon wrote:

OK I can see why you added it, then, but perhaps the best would just be to drop the dodge requirement altogether and replace it with another feat, like f.ex. Arcane strike.

I actually debated it but arcane strike has the same problem. It is activated as a swift action. In the end I thought it better to leave the prereqs as close to the original as I could and allow the feat to work as a free rather than a swift action (effectively grandfathering in the action it was before).

[WelbyBumpus]

WotC's Nightmare wrote:

Personally, I would use the 3.0 version of the bladesinger and up the hit dice to d10. This version can be found in Tome and Blood and Races of Faerun. If that's not enough, it at least gives you a good place to start from.

I'm not so sure about that: I remember the 3.0 version of the class being much too powerful, and the 3.5 version being a bit too weak. I'd be hesitant to take the more-powerful version of the class and make it even better (even in Pathfinder).

[Mortagon]

WelbyBumpus wrote:

WotC's Nightmare wrote:

Personally, I would use the 3.0 version of the bladesinger and up the hit dice to d10. This version can be found in Tome and Blood and Races of Faerun. If that's not enough, it at least gives you a good place to start from.

I'm not so sure about that: I remember the 3.0 version of the class being much too powerful, and the 3.5 version being a bit too weak. I'd be hesitant to take the more-powerful version of the class and make it even better (even in Pathfinder).

I found the bladesinger (both the 3.0 and the 3.5 versions) to be one of the more balanced prc's out there. I had a player that played one from level 10-30 with great success.

[Eric Stipe]

bladesingers came from a template/skill expediture in 2nd, that's where i would return them to.

how bout

Feat
Bladesong [Stance]
Requirements: Dodge, Dance 7 ranks, Elven, arcane Spellcasting ability 1st level, longsword proficiancy.
Benefit: The Character that takes this feat gets three options, the character can only be in one stance in a round:
Defensive stance: the charater can spend a swift action to make a dance check, the result divided by 5 is added on to AC as a dodge bonus.
Offensive stance: the character can spend a move action to make a dance check, the result divided by 5 is added on to one attack made with a light one-handed sword.
Spell and Sword stance: the character can spend a full round action to make one attack with a light one-handed sword, and cast one spell. the spell must have a casting time of one standard action.

Template
Bladesinger
Bladesingers are trained in the martial art of the elves but expected to use those skills at all times to help the elven relm.
Requirements: Elven. the character must have ranks in dance equal to his character level, the character must keep fighter/ranger with in one level of sorcerer/wizard. the character owes his allegence to the elven nation and is required to come any time it calls. the character well willingly sacrifice his life at any time to help an elf in need.
benefits:dance as a class skill, at 7th level the character gains bladesong for free.

and i'm sure all of this could be better worded, but this is what i'm going with.