There are a number of Feats listed in Pathfinder that are listed as being "Fighter Only". Instead of listing these abilities as Feats, wouldn't it be more appropriate to list them as "Talents", much like the Rogue class currently has? This would allow Fighters to gain special abilities that are unique to the class that would be quantified as class abilities and listed in the Fighter class write-up. And you could always spend these Talents on Combat Feats, just like Rogues are capable of doing.
I also think this would also be an excellent way to allow Fighters to obtain special abilities that help better shore up their weaknesses, particularly in regards to enhancing their movement, intercepting enemies, making iterative attacks over the course of their movement, and re-rolling failed Will saves.
There are a number of Feats listed in Pathfinder that are listed as being "Fighter Only". Instead of listing these abilities as Feats, wouldn't it be more appropriate to list them as "Talents", much like the Rogue class currently has? This would allow Fighters to gain special abilities that are unique to the class that would be quantified as class abilities and listed in the Fighter class write-up. And you could always spend these Talents on Combat Feats, just like Rogues are capable of doing.
I also think this would also be an excellent way to allow Fighters to obtain special abilities that help better shore up their weaknesses, particularly in regards to enhancing their movement, intercepting enemies, making iterative attacks over the course of their movement, and re-rolling failed Will saves.
Yes this would also clean up the feat list so you arent looking at ones to take and going "d'oh thats fighter only"
An excellent idea!
So replace "Bonus Feat" with "Fighter Talent", of which one of the options could be "You gain a bonus feat".
This is an idea I could really go for, it would finally fix the "Fighter's are bland" problem but still provide enough options to keep them generic.
So replace "Bonus Feat" with "Fighter Talent", of which one of the options could be "You gain a bonus feat".
This is an idea I could really go for, it would finally fix the "Fighter's are bland" problem but still provide enough options to keep them generic.
Right. And they can use the slots to get some other class powers. Ruemere's already mentioned something like this in other threads - so why not just go ahead and implement it?
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So replace "Bonus Feat" with "Fighter Talent", of which one of the options could be "You gain a bonus feat".
This is an idea I could really go for, it would finally fix the "Fighter's are bland" problem but still provide enough options to keep them generic.
I don't have a problem with that, I just don't want feats that I think should be open to all, either restricted to fighters or else made into fighter talents. But it could be that class features are the way to go, I guess, although instinctively I'd prefer for there to be feats good enough that the fighter's bonus feats meant that the fighter really could be significantly better across the range of likely combat than can be the melee classes without the bonus feats. That way other classes could specialise to a fighter level in some areas but never have the fighter breadth, and I prefer the fighter as a 'combat breadth' class.
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I don't have a problem with that, I just don't want feats that I think should be open to all, either restricted to fighters or else made into fighter talents. But it could be that class features are the way to go, I guess, although instinctively I'd prefer for there to be feats good enough that the fighter's bonus feats meant that the fighter really could be significantly better across the range of likely combat than can be the melee classes without the bonus feats. That way other classes could specialise to a fighter level in some areas but never have the fighter breadth, and I prefer the fighter as a 'combat breadth' class.So replace "Bonus Feat" with "Fighter Talent", of which one of the options could be "You gain a bonus feat".
This is an idea I could really go for, it would finally fix the "Fighter's are bland" problem but still provide enough options to keep them generic.
So by simply renaming the "fighter-only" feats to talents that they could select would appease this hang-up it seems.
They could choose a combat feat that anyone could take - or take a "fighter-only" feat that is now called a talent.
Sounds like it makes a lot of sense.
Robert
it would also work well if they turned the armor/weapon training stuff into talents. maybe give less fighter feats, and more fighter talents.
a armor master could be pretty cool.
it would also work well if they turned the armor/weapon training stuff into talents. maybe give less fighter feats, and more fighter talents.
a armor master could be pretty cool.
As long as one of the talent options is "You gain a bonus feat" they could remove bonus feats from the fighter class features all-together and still remain perfectlty backwards compatable with the fighter.
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So by simply renaming the "fighter-only" feats to talents that they could select would appease this hang-up it seems.
They could choose a combat feat that anyone could take - or take a "fighter-only" feat that is now called a talent.
Sounds like it makes a lot of sense.
Robert
Well, as I said, I'd prefer it all to be feats open to all classes and the fighter thrive by getting more of them. But if it does have to be talents, I don't think I'd want the existing feats to become talents and I'd also like currently fighter-only feats opened up, too (ie, I'd want the 'talents' to be new, except this (talents) is of course not my favoured option, just my second-favourite).
An idea that has been tossed around before was to give the Fighter "feat slots" that could be used more like a Wizard uses spells. You get to pick them at the start of the day, instead of being locked in forever in your choice.
This would make the Fighter a much more newbie friendly class overall, since if you made a poor choice in feat that's useability is kind of rare, it's at least not locked into that slot.
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So, you'd pick two feats at each bonus feat level, but only gain one feat "slot". So at first level, you pick Power Attack and Combat Reflexes. However, he can only have one of those at a time.
What might be nice for the Fighter, is to allow them to bypass some prerequisites artificially by saying as long as the feat is in his feat list, it can be used as a prerequisite.
So a first level Fighter could pick as his Fighter feats, Power Attack and Cleave.. but select only Cleave in the slot, and qualify because he has Power Attack in his list.
He doesn't get the power attack strength damage... but he can still Cleave.
This would allow Fighters to take Combat Feats over their knee and spank them into submission as artfully as Wizards do with spells.
I like the idea of "Fighter Talents", but more has to be done with them. I mean, simply changing the name from "combat feats" to "fighter talents" isn't enough. It's like putting perfume on a pig; sure it smells better, but it's still covered in mud.
Any fighter talents have to be enhanced a bit. Something done to give them more flavor, more "pop" as it were. I wish I had a specific example.
OH! Perhaps everyone's complaint concerning certain feats not scaling with the character (Dodge and Weapon Focus come to mind) could be addressed this way. Since it would be a class ability, it could improve with the fighter. The feats could stay as they are for other classes to use.
Just an idea.
DogBone
Perhaps somthing to give the fighter more attack options? Such as a lesser sunder that can lower the enemies AC, or the option to perform an attack of oppetuniry when an opponent..say...takes a 5-foot step. Weapon Focus and Speciliazation would only be the start of fighter talents, more ideas like this would be needed to expand it.
There are a number of Feats listed in Pathfinder that are listed as being "Fighter Only". Instead of listing these abilities as Feats, wouldn't it be more appropriate to list them as "Talents", much like the Rogue class currently has?
This idea has a lot of design potential, especially to color this otherwise rather blend class (or an illusion of color, as nothing would change mechanically speaking if the fighter's talents are left to the actual fighter-only feats).
Besides, I always though it was rather counter-intuitive to have fighter-only feats (or any other class-only feats for that matter). While some feats benefit a class more than another, no other feat state that you must belong to a particular class as a prerequisite.
Let feats be universal, and talents be class-specific (even if there is some cross-over talents between classes).
'findel