I have a human player that has a large great sword, who only has a -2 to his attack per the rules in the PF Beta. Is this right?
a weapon’s size category is keyed to the size
of the intended wielder. In general, a light weapon is an
object two size categories smaller than the wielder, a onehanded
weapon is an object one size category smaller than
the wielder, and a two-handed weapon is an object of the
same size category as the wielder. Inappropriately Sized Weapons: A creature can’t make optimum use of a weapon that isn’t properly sized for it. A cumulative –2 penalty applies on attack rolls for each
size category of difference between the size of its intended
wielder and the size of its actual wielder. If the creature
isn’t proficient with the weapon, a –4 nonproficiency
penalty also applies. The measure of how much effort it takes to use a weapon (whether the weapon is designated as a light, one-handed,
or two-handed weapon for a particular wielder) is altered
by one step for each size category of difference between
the wielder’s size and the size of the creature for which the
weapon was designed. If a weapon’s designation would be
changed to something other than light, one-handed, or
two-handed by this alteration, the creature can’t wield the
weapon at all.
I don't think he can do this. As you write yourself, the weapon type increased (or decreases) by different sizes than the wielder. This means that the greatsword you mention becomes a 3-handed weapon instead of two-handed, thus not an existing category, why he can't wield it at all.
What he could do, is use a large Longsword as a two-handed weapon.
Your player is trying to mess with you, dude. :) No, not possible. The penalty is really just there to screw halflings and gnomes. Hey, look at this great magic longsword! I can wield it as a greatsword, but I have to take a -2 because it isn't a small greatsword, it's a medium longsword.
Sometimes it'll hit you the other way, your medium pc's defeat the halfling boss but if they want to actually use any of his loot they take a -2 for it. It's a great way to make loot worthless.
The only way a Medium-sized character can use a Large Greatsword (3d6) as a two-handed sword with a -2 to hit is with the Feat Monkey Grip (from Complete Warrior), which is not OGL.
Thanks for the replies! I was thinking along the same lines.
The pregenerated character Iconic barbarian uses a frost giants bastard sword (Large Bastard sword) as a bastard sword with her bastard sword proficency. In her character description it states she can only properly use the sword while she rages (not sure what this means, except rage bonuses offset the penalties for swinging huge sword).
So to say a player can't do it, when a Iconic pregen is doing it, I would have to say is wrong.
However I would say there should definately be a larger penalty than -2.
The pregenerated character Iconic barbarian uses a frost giants bastard sword (Large Bastard sword) as a bastard sword with her bastard sword proficency. In her character description it states she can only properly use the sword while she rages (not sure what this means, except rage bonuses offset the penalties for swinging huge sword).
So to say a player can't do it, when a Iconic pregen is doing it, I would have to say is wrong.However I would say there should definately be a larger penalty than -2.
Yeah, I have a player in my group who looked at the iconic character in the back of the book and is doing the same thing himself. Although I didn't understand it I was questioning if this was possible. It wasn't until another pc in our group questioned his use of it that I decided I better do something about this. It just so happens that very same night I stumbled upon this post.
Currently he is using it without any penalties, but I am sure this is wrong; any ideas?
Yeah, it seems that the rules for this in the beta are vague and need more detail. An example given would be good to.
I don't think he can do this. As you write yourself, the weapon type increased (or decreases) by different sizes than the wielder. This means that the greatsword you mention becomes a 3-handed weapon instead of two-handed, thus not an existing category, why he can't wield it at all.
What he could do, is use a large Longsword as a two-handed weapon.
After doing some exhaustive research, haha, I tend to agree with everyone who says that they cannot use it. The example haraldklak gave above is what I came up with; however, whomever made the iconic pc at the back of the dammed book, hehe kidding, has kind of messed up this ruling. So yes, a clarification of the powers that be would be in order.
Incidentally, that is the only reason I allowed him to use the large greatsword was because of the iconic dudette.
Thanks in advance!
The pregenerated character Iconic barbarian uses a frost giants bastard sword (Large Bastard sword) as a bastard sword with her bastard sword proficency. In her character description it states she can only properly use the sword while she rages (not sure what this means, except rage bonuses offset the penalties for swinging huge sword).
So to say a player can't do it, when a Iconic pregen is doing it, I would have to say is wrong.However I would say there should definately be a larger penalty than -2.
Based on the rules of weapon sizing posted in the OP (which is the same as in the 3.5 PHB) the large bastard sword would be weilded as a two handed weapon with a -2 penalty for a character with Bastard Sword proficiency. A character not proficient with a bastard sword could not weild the weapon at all because for them the increase in size category makes it more than two-handed and therefore unweildable. As for the "properly us it only in rage" bit I'd also assume that it means the +4 STR perfectly balances the -2 attack penalty.
This system makes sense because a halfling greatsword is not the same weapon as a human longsword. The blades may be close to the same length and the overall weight may be close, but they would not necessarily be the same width and the grip diameter is much smaller and the balance of the weapon isn't the same. Therefore it can be weilded one handed by a human but it is akward and takes a -2 penalty. It gets even worse for that Ogre that wants to pick it up and use it as a dagger. A halfling greatsword makes a flimsy ogre dagger.
As another poster already said, you can't use a large greatsword as a medium creature without Monkeygrip.
|
It's the bastard sword ruling, She can normally use a bastard sword one handed. A non-proficient person can use a normal bastard sword two-handed. Since she is proficient in Bastard sword she can use a Large bastard sword two-handed (with the penalty). Not a Large Great Sword.
This is where STR mins would be nice for weapons. A great Sword should require at least STR 13. A Large Great Sword like a 19 STR.
The pregenerated character Iconic barbarian uses a frost giants bastard sword (Large Bastard sword) as a bastard sword with her bastard sword proficency. In her character description it states she can only properly use the sword while she rages (not sure what this means, except rage bonuses offset the penalties for swinging huge sword).
So to say a player can't do it, when a Iconic pregen is doing it, I would have to say is wrong.However I would say there should definately be a larger penalty than -2.
Based on the rules of weapon sizing posted in the OP (which is the same as in the 3.5 PHB) the large bastard sword would be weilded as a two handed weapon with a -2 penalty for a character with Bastard Sword proficiency. A character not proficient with a bastard sword could not weild the weapon at all because for them the increase in size category makes it more than two-handed and therefore unweildable. As for the "properly us it only in rage" bit I'd also assume that it means the +4 STR perfectly balances the -2 attack penalty.
But JB, what about this text in the above mentioned rules:
The measure of how much effort it takes to use a weapon (whether the weapon is designated as a light, one-handed,
or two-handed weapon for a particular wielder) is altered
by one step for each size category of difference between
the wielder’s size and the size of the creature for which the
weapon was designed. If a weapon’s designation would be
changed to something other than light, one-handed, or
two-handed by this alteration, the creature can’t wield the
weapon at all.
I take that to mean that the weapon would go to three-handed, which, as we all know, is impossible, well at least for a human. It doesn't mention you do not get this penalty if you are proficient with it, unless I am missing something, which I could be.
|
|
Oh, and I hate monkey grip! Nothing like Barbarians using Great axes to disrupt the game...
I'm thinking of doing a MAB (Modified Attack Bonus) = BAB+ [(STRMOD+DEXMOD)/2], Basially any power gamer can make a high strength character and destroy the game, and Monkey grip makes it worse. Ever seen a Monkey grip Falcion? (2d6/18-20)
Weapons should not be all about Strength you need a bit of finesse as well, even for a great sword.
Ok first off let me say I have huge distain for ridiculously huge animae weapons.
But... theoretically this type of situation should be slightly possible.
Lets say a PC barbarian/rogue along with his mates is captured by a frost giant tribe, stripped of weapons and gear they dont have anything to fight with, but using escape artist, the Barbarian/Rogue escapes his bonds and Slieght of hands the frost giant guard free of his say...Large Battle axe, then manages to sneak attack him with it.
That should be possible. character is presumably strong enough to lift the huge thing, it is effectively an improvised weapon (what if he had a feat like razor sharp chair leg, or caught off guard? how would that apply?)
Now lets say the same frost giant guard had a greatsword (large) instead of a battle axe.
Keep in mind that when one casts the "enlarge spell" the target of the spell and his gear DOUBLES in size. There for a longsowrd enlarged is not simply a bastard sword ( a larger version of the same weapon) It is in fact a double size longsword.
So in this case a frost giant's great sword for a human is not a three handed sword, it is infact a FOUR handed sword.
A great sword for a human is 6-7 feet long, the frost giants would be 12-14 feet long!
Now lets think about the weight, so its merely doubled? Big deal, barbarian can pick it up no problem, But with most of the weight at the end we are talking alot of negative leverage, so the weight of the blade as weilded would be much greater, then when swung? the centrifugal force would be increased exponentially.
So back to basicis, could/should this be done? Yes. But at extreme penalty (so much that carrying one as a normal daily event as a standard weapon shouldnt even be considered) but in the case of sneak attacking the sleeping giant with his own sword? Of course he should be able to do it, not only is it epic, but necessary and I would argue if this Barbarian/rogue (or similar character of weapon prowess and great strength) had other even semi applicable feats like caught off guard, or razhor sharp chair leg, then he'd be "prepared" for weird weapons, But NOT for the purposes of using it regularly.
and what about "throw anything" can the character with this feat throw a giants greatsword at an opponent? odd thought, no?
In the case of Iconic Barbaran-ette, shes in a weird niche with that bastard sword thing. But she has spent a feat for the exotic weapon, and is only using a large bastard sword (as if its a great sword and taking the -2 penalty) , not using a large great sword (which should be out of the question or have something like a -10 penalty on it.
What ever the case I say no to the silly animae weapons.
Its kinda clear cut to me. You can use the bastard sword because you can use a standard sized one ,with a feat one handed. So the huge one as a two handed inst an issue and you take the -2.
Now does anyone know of an OGL feat that allows a tow handed weapon to be used 1 handed? If so and you allow it I could see it maybe.
The bastard sword is a special case really. As it is a 1 handed , 2 hander really, with a feat tax to use it.
Most 2handers do not have this ability even with a feat.
so I would say no to the huge two handers
But JB, what about this text in the above mentioned rules:The measure of how much effort it takes to use a weapon (whether the weapon is designated as a light, one-handed,
or two-handed weapon for a particular wielder) is altered
by one step for each size category of difference between
the wielder’s size and the size of the creature for which the
weapon was designed. If a weapon’s designation would be
changed to something other than light, one-handed, or
two-handed by this alteration, the creature can’t wield the
weapon at all.I take that to mean that the weapon would go to three-handed, which, as we all know, is impossible, well at least for a human. It doesn't mention you do not get this penalty if you are proficient with it, unless I am missing something, which I could be.
I think part of your confusion is that the OP mentions a greatsword and the Iconic is actually using a bastard sword. The iconic is still getting the penalty, its just that her bastard sword proficiency means that the large bastard sword goes from one handed to two-handed and she takes a -2 penalty. Without the proficiency she couldn't do this because the bastard sword would go to more-than-two-handed since non-proficiency requires a bastard sword be used two-handed. For clarification, any medium character with martial weapon proficiency could use a large LONGSWORD two handed with a -2 penalty. I think its the bastard sword proficiency going from two to one handed that's tripping you up
[..]A great sword for a human is 6-7 feet long, the frost giants would be 12-14 feet long![..]
Technically no, it isn't 12-14 feet. A large weapon weighs twice as much as a medium weapon. Therefore, assuming constant density of the construction material and the same physical structure, the linear dimensions of the item increase by a factor of 2^(1/3)=1.26. So that large greatsword is actually 7.5-8.8 feet long. Still a big weapon, but if it actually doubled in linear dimension then the weight would increase by a factor of 2^3=8. A 12-14 foot greatsword is actually a gargantuan weapon. Silly thing to take issue with, but I'm an engineer and that's what we do ;)
[..]A great sword for a human is 6-7 feet long, the frost giants would be 12-14 feet long![..]Technically no, it isn't 12-14 feet. A large weapon weighs twice as much as a medium weapon. Therefore, assuming constant density of the construction material and the same physical structure, the linear dimensions of the item increase by a factor of 2^(1/3)=1.26. So that large greatsword is actually 7.5-8.8 feet long. Still a big weapon, but if it actually doubled in linear dimension then the weight would increase by a factor of 2^3=8. A 12-14 foot greatsword is actually a gargantuan weapon. Silly thing to take issue with, but I'm an engineer and that's what we do ;)
Engineer or not, the games rules aren't rules of physics. The game rules state the enlarge spell makes a recipient and his gear twice as tall, not twice as heavy(multiplies weight by 8, as stated in the game rules).
A great sword is defined as a weapon the same size category as the character. A great sword is the same hieght (in some cases just a tad taller) than a standard human (6-7 feet) if the recipeient of the spell doubles in height (12-14 feet tall, like a giant which is a large humanoid) then the greatsword would stay proportionately as large which makes a Large Greatsword 12-14 feet long ( i missed the part where it says 8 times the weight in my previous post)
So said large great sword would be 64 lbs, which is still "liftable" by any medium creature.
But as it stands by games rules, it WOULD be a 12-14 foot long great sword.
And Im an architect, and we are trained to constantly read and refer to documents as they are always the most accurate source of information, and thats what we do.
Monkey grip would allow you to use a medium great sword one-handed as well. or a long sword as a light weapon for that matter.
HAH and a dagger as a tooth pick?
Well, no. Given the rules on larger/smaller weapons categories, any weapon treated less than light can't be used. So clearly the character with monkey grip is unable to use any light weapons ;-)
Not to mention, that he/she would never be seen with any weapon smaller than a great sword!
liftable yes, swingable...not likely...heh.
(btw if either of you needs CAD services, I can use some off-hours work...and I need experience toward getting my architect's license as well.)
hmm CAD Drafting... I thought you needed "hours" for on CAD if you were going for a draftsmans cerftificate?
What kind of Architecture are you looking at?
Engineer or not, the games rules aren't rules of physics. The game rules state the enlarge spell makes a recipient and his gear twice as tall, not twice as heavy(multiplies weight by 8, as stated in the game rules).
A great sword is defined as a weapon the same size category as the character. A great sword is the same hieght (in some cases just a tad taller) than a standard human (6-7 feet) if the recipeient of the spell doubles in height (12-14 feet tall, like a giant which is a large humanoid) then the greatsword would stay proportionately as large which makes a Large Greatsword 12-14 feet long ( i missed the part where it says 8 times the weight in my previous post)
So said large great sword would be 64 lbs, which is still "liftable" by any medium creature.
But as it stands by games rules, it WOULD be a 12-14 foot long great sword.And Im an architect, and we are trained to constantly read and refer to documents as they are always the most accurate source of information, and thats what we do.
Well, tone can be difficult to get across in a post, but you seem to have taken my closing chuckle way out of context. I was just saying that based on the rules of the game I'm familiar with you were incorrect and that the only reason I would catch that is because of all the time I spent with solid mechanics. And I'd just like to point out that both pathfinder and 3.5 are internally inconsistant on how they deal with size of weapons. By your own admission you are trained to constantly read and refere to documents.
Weight: This column gives the weight of a Medium version of the weapon. Halve this number for Small weapons and double it for Large weapons. [1]
So therefore we are both correct. The large greatsword created by enlarge person is different than the large greatsword crafted by the person reading the section on weapons. If we want to agree that each size catagory is twice as large (in linear dimension) as the previous then any reference to increasing weights needs to be changed to 8 times the previous category. I'd be comfortable with that and it would make the game consistant.
[1] Bulmahn, J. (2008). Chapter 7: Equipment. Pathfinder Roleplaying Game, Beta Playtest Edition, 101.
Engineer or not, the games rules aren't rules of physics. The game rules state the enlarge spell makes a recipient and his gear twice as tall, not twice as heavy(multiplies weight by 8, as stated in the game rules).
A great sword is defined as a weapon the same size category as the character. A great sword is the same hieght (in some cases just a tad taller) than a standard human (6-7 feet) if the recipeient of the spell doubles in height (12-14 feet tall, like a giant which is a large humanoid) then the greatsword would stay proportionately as large which makes a Large Greatsword 12-14 feet long ( i missed the part where it says 8 times the weight in my previous post)
So said large great sword would be 64 lbs, which is still "liftable" by any medium creature.
But as it stands by games rules, it WOULD be a 12-14 foot long great sword.And Im an architect, and we are trained to constantly read and refer to documents as they are always the most accurate source of information, and thats what we do.
Well, tone can be difficult to get across in a post, but you seem to have taken my closing chuckle way out of context. I was just saying that based on the rules of the game I'm familiar with you were incorrect and that the only reason I would catch that is because of all the time I spent with solid mechanics. And I'd just like to point out that both pathfinder and 3.5 are internally inconsistant on how they deal with size of weapons. By your own admission you are trained to constantly read and refere to documents.
Weight: This column gives the weight of a Medium version of the weapon. Halve this number for Small weapons and double it for Large weapons. [1]
So therefore we are both correct. The large greatsword created by enlarge person is different than the large greatsword crafted by the person reading the section on weapons. If we want to agree that each size catagory is twice as large (in linear dimension) as the previous then any reference to increasing...
so rules for enlarge person, and what are different? Crafting weapons?
I also find it humorous that you get +2 str for being 8 times as heavy with gear 8 times as heavy.So if you were fully encumbered before enlarge person was cast on you, would you crumble under the weight of your gear and loot if you were enlarged? Hah!
In a thread talking about size changes for druid wildshaping someone mentioned a mechanic for weight distrubution on quadrupeds of the same str (dont know where exactly they found that rule) but something to the effect of a Huge Elephant with 13 str can carry more than a medium human with 13 str because of the size difference (they might have only been talking about quaruped though)
Looking through the 3.5 MM it shows a fire giant with a greatsword (listed under equipment for the fire giant) The fire giants greatsword is clearly taller (slightly) than he himself. Statisitcs state under the description of the fire giant that they are typically 12 feet tall.
So slightly taller than a 12 foot fire giant would be 14 feet.
Putting that LARGE Greatsword right were I said it would be.
That would mean the spell "enlarge person" and the "Large Giant" are consistent with eachother how the outcome from size changes end up.
It states the Fire Giant is 6000 lbs however and a 200 lb man at 8 times his weight would only be 1600 lbs, so I can only assume the Fire Giant is alot denser in flesh and bone than a human regardless of size comparison.
If the fire giant was shrunk, he be 1/8 mass or 750 lbs!! Thats one FAT guy! of course hed only lose 2 str in the process (using reverse mechanics) making him a human with a 29 str! ouch
Maybe he has 550 extra pounds of muscle??
anyway going back to the orginial point. A Large giants, Large greatsword is clearly intended by game designers to be a 12 foot long weapon (look at the pic of the human in the frame for comparison to the giants sword) at least, and therefor, literally UNwieldable by a human. Period. (except of course for some kind of weird, perviously mentioned isolated incident)
*picturing in my mind two fighters running along with the giants great sword like a battering ram and the rogu using a paint brush whispering "hit him HERE" inorder to get off a sneak attack on the sleeping giant*
so rules for enlarge person, and what are different? Crafting weapons?
I also find it humorous that you get +2 str for being 8 times as heavy with gear 8 times as heavy.
So if you were fully encumbered before enlarge person was cast on you, would you crumble under the weight of your gear and loot if you were enlarged? Hah!
The rules in the section on weapons and equipment are different than the rules listed for enlarge person. The enlarge person rules make more sense, it's just that the rule I remembered, and based my post off of that sparked this whole discussion (see previous post for page reference), contradicts the way the other rules scale. Interestingly, the person who was fully encumbered and then enlarged would indead crumple (based on real world physics, not game mechanics). Strength is based on cross-section, but mass is based on volume. That's why ants are small: a direct linear scaling makes their body configuration impossible at much larger sizes.
[...]That would mean the spell "enlarge person" and the "Large Giant" are consistent with eachother how the outcome from size changes end up.
I won't argue that, I agree with you that if the increase size mechanics work by doubling linear dimensions that you were correct in your original post. As I stated in my previous post, the rules irregularity occures in the section on equipment.
[...]anyway going back to the orginial point. A Large giants, Large greatsword is clearly intended by game designers to be a 12 foot long weapon (look at the pic of the human in the frame for comparison to the giants sword) at least, and therefor, literally UNwieldable by a human. Period. (except of course for some kind of weird, perviously mentioned isolated incident)
If that's what's intended, which I agree it is, then the line about weight scaling simply needs to be changed to be 8 times and this arguement about size upon scaling will never happen again. The idea of a human weilding a 12 foot sword is of course rediculous. I'm just glad that damage doesn't scale the way it should, since an 8x massive sword would deal at least 8x damage and that greatsword would be doing 12d6 base damage.
I think part of your confusion is that the OP mentions a greatsword and the Iconic is actually using a bastard sword. The iconic is still getting the penalty, its just that her bastard sword proficiency means that the large bastard sword goes from one handed to two-handed and she takes a -2 penalty. Without the proficiency she couldn't do this because the bastard sword would go to more-than-two-handed since non-proficiency requires a bastard sword be used two-handed. For clarification, any medium character with martial weapon proficiency could use a large LONGSWORD two handed with a -2 penalty. I think its the bastard sword proficiency going from two to one handed that's tripping you up
But JB, what about this text in the above mentioned rules:The measure of how much effort it takes to use a weapon (whether the weapon is designated as a light, one-handed,
or two-handed weapon for a particular wielder) is altered
by one step for each size category of difference between
the wielder’s size and the size of the creature for which the
weapon was designed. If a weapon’s designation would be
changed to something other than light, one-handed, or
two-handed by this alteration, the creature can’t wield the
weapon at all.I take that to mean that the weapon would go to three-handed, which, as we all know, is impossible, well at least for a human. It doesn't mention you do not get this penalty if you are proficient with it, unless I am missing something, which I could be.
Right you are!! I was at work thinking about this last night, and also talking to the player in question. I had forgotten about the feat that you could take that would make the bastard sword one-handed, I was thinking of it as strictly two-handed.
|
|
liftable yes, swingable...not likely...heh.
(btw if either of you needs CAD services, I can use some off-hours work...and I need experience toward getting my architect's license as well.)
hmm CAD Drafting... I thought you needed "hours" for on CAD if you were going for a draftsmans cerftificate?
What kind of Architecture are you looking at?
I have an AA in Architectural Drafting, I need to work on my NCARB licensing. But I could always use soem extra hours of work basically.
And in reference to game, isn't the Fire giant a huge giant? ( I don't have my books with me) I thought the hill and stone giants were large (and ogres), and the Fire giant was huge.
liftable yes, swingable...not likely...heh.
(btw if either of you needs CAD services, I can use some off-hours work...and I need experience toward getting my architect's license as well.)
hmm CAD Drafting... I thought you needed "hours" for on CAD if you were going for a draftsmans cerftificate?
What kind of Architecture are you looking at?
I have an AA in Architectural Drafting, I need to work on my NCARB licensing. But I could always use soem extra hours of work basically.
And in reference to game, isn't the Fire giant a huge giant? ( I don't have my books with me) I thought the hill and stone giants were large (and ogres), and the Fire giant was huge.
On the giant size, I THOUGHT so too but in the 3.5 MM fire and frost are listed ad Large giants (so basically ogres and hills are the low end of large and frost at 15 are the high end of large) Storm and Cloud are HUGE.
I take that to mean that the weapon would go to three-handed, which, as we all know, is impossible, well at least for a human. It doesn't mention you do not get this penalty if you are proficient with it, unless I am missing something, which I could be.
A bastard sword is two-handed only if you use it as a martial weapon. If you get special training (and get the exotic weapon proficiency), it becomes a one-handed weapon for you.
Think of them as two different weapons.
Since Amiri has exotic weapon proficiency, the bastard sword is normally a one-handed weapon for her. A large one is two-handed. If she didn't have the feat, it would indeed be impossible for her to use the weapon, since it would basically be like a large greatsword. But with the exotic proficiency, it's like a large longsword (which works)
In a thread talking about size changes for druid wildshaping someone mentioned a mechanic for weight distrubution on quadrupeds of the same str (dont know where exactly they found that rule) but something to the effect of a Huge Elephant with 13 str can carry more than a medium human with 13 str because of the size difference (they might have only been talking about quaruped though)
Being both larger and being a quadruped alters how much weight you can carry for a given strength. For a Large biped it can carry x2 what a medium biped can of the same strength.
I would also argue against the idea that Enlarge Person increases equipment weight by x8. Was likely not the intent of designers to leave PC pinned beneath his own gear, as they next weight increase would be x4. The equivalent weight increase for equipment would be x2 not x8. While I realize this doesn't totally fit with reality it is the way the current encumbrance system is balanced.
If we want to alter the basic assumptions of encumbrance then we should do so and say that a Large biped can carry x8 of a medium one, and that all equipment is x8 as heavy.
In a thread talking about size changes for druid wildshaping someone mentioned a mechanic for weight distrubution on quadrupeds of the same str (dont know where exactly they found that rule) but something to the effect of a Huge Elephant with 13 str can carry more than a medium human with 13 str because of the size difference (they might have only been talking about quaruped though)Being both larger and being a quadruped alters how much weight you can carry for a given strength. For a Large biped it can carry x2 what a medium biped can of the same strength.
I would also argue against the idea that Enlarge Person increases equipment weight by x8. Was likely not the intent of designers to leave PC pinned beneath his own gear, as they next weight increase would be x4. The equivalent weight increase for equipment would be x2 not x8. While I realize this doesn't totally fit with reality it is the way the current encumbrance system is balanced.
If we want to alter the basic assumptions of encumbrance then we should do so and say that a Large biped can carry x8 of a medium one, and that all equipment is x8 as heavy.
Well then you would have to suggest the spell be fixed, because enlarge person 1) states x2 size, x8 weight
2) literally does make a human go from medium to largeand 3) only gives a +2 to str.
But the medium to large conversion for the greatswrod still makes it a 12 foot weapon and there for not possible to be used by a human. Thats th real point of this thread, can the character use a large great sword.
Clearly no.
What about amiri's large bastard sword, an anaomoly because of the feat, and the niche of the bastard sword.